posted
I think it's pretty much agreed upon that certain grammatical errors are allowed in literature- like the local color dialogue that helped make books like Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn so famous. But what about music?
I've heard a lot of music that has grammatical errors in it- some can easily be fixed, like this line from a 3 Doors Down song:
"Your imitation of my walk, and the perfect way you talk, is just a couple of the million things that I love about you."
The "is" in that sentance could easily be changed to "are" without any problem. There are other songs, however, where things like ending a sentance with a preposition cannot be fixed without changing the meter or rhyme of the song.
So where do we draw the line? Which kinds of grammatical errors are appropriate, and which are not?
Posts: 1591 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
That Rihanna song SOS drives me insane because I can't figure out whether or not I should be annoyed.
Is the chorus "It's not healthy for me to feel this. Why? Oh, you are making this hard..." Or is it, "Y-O-U are making this hard..." Or is it the cringe-worthy, "Y-O-U-R making this hard..."
WHICH ONE IS IT, RIHANNA?! Do I need to bludgeon you with my scepter of grammar or not?!
posted
Okay, they usually don't bother me too much, but there's one in a song I love, "Coat of Many Colors," that really gets to me:
"They didn't understand it and I tried to make them see One is only poor only if they choose to be."
Ouch. I wince thinking of it. And no matter which way I change it, I've never found a correction that quite "fits"...
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: I automatically rewrite song lyrics in my head so that they are grammatically correct because otherwise they make me twitch.
So do I. This can cause problems when I insist that a lyric is actually the grammatically correct one.
*recalls a particular Hatrack gathering and a discussion of Bridge Over Troubled Waters* Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
There's no "we" to draw the line. This isn't France or a Muslim regime where there is a committee who decides what is or isn't English.
I guess that would be one reason to oppose English only laws, is the danger of such an authority coming into being.
The thing is no one has perfect grammar. It is quite natural to think that anyone who thinks my grammar is inadequate is pathologically compulsive, while anyone whose grammar I can find fault with is ignorant.
When the committee takes over, it will not be to preserve English as it is. They will undertake to recognize the Constitution as the rubric of proper American English and try to roll us back 300 years.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pooka: It is quite natural to think that anyone who thinks my grammar is inadequate is pathologically compulsive, while anyone whose grammar I can find fault with is ignorant.
You mean this isn't true?!? Darn, there goes another paradigm down the drain!
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Speaking of grammar grumpiness . . . no sooner did I post the above than I checked my email and had one of those powerpoint type emails with pretty pictures and pretty music and pseudo-philosophical pretty words. This one was about "Silent Night," all sorts of ramblings about nights and silence and yadda yadda. (sorta like a really long greeting card.) Anyway, this one said at the end something like "all nights hold within them the potentiality to be like the first silent night."
Potentiality????
What is wrong with potential, for heaven's sake???
/grump session.
Sigh.
ETA: I just looked it up in the dictionary. And to my chagrin discovered that it's a real word. But I wonder whether there is any instance in which the word "potential" would not be just as good.
I was a little freaked when I googled it and saw close to 2 million hits. A little less freaked when I did a googlefight and saw that "potential" got over 400 million hits.
Yes, I do need a life.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's kind of funny that there's an error in mechanics in the title of this thread, as well as a misspelled word...
I've actually given up on the world, as far as standardized grammar and mechanics go. And I'm an English teacher, heh.
Posts: 5663 | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
The thing is, usage shifts the validity of different words. If people say the wrong thing long enough, it becomes correct.
Used to drive me crazy, but I have mellowed with age.
YOu know waht I hate about music sometimes? When your favorite songs make no sense because things outside the song have changed.
For example, I can no longer sing "Typical Situation" by Dave Matthews Band without getting angry that Pluto was demoted. It totally ruins the progression.
quote: Ten fingers counting we have each Nine planets around the sun replete Eight...
It already totally has the twisted grammar thing wrapped up, which doesn't bother me at all.
I find myself in the awkward position of wanting to either re-write the song or find another farking planet. Oy.
Science killed my song. Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
A song that used to bother me a lot: Paul McCartney and Wings' "Live and Let Die".
Officially, there is a line that goes like this:
quote:And in this ever-changing world in which we live in
Though sources dissagree, it might be (and I prefer):
quote:And if this ever-changing world in which we live in
But still! Intolerable reapeating unbearable redudancy. So I have decided, with the freedom of an American girl interpreting a Liverpudlian accent, that Paul is actually singing:
quote:But if this ever-changing world in which we're livin'
Ha ha!
quote:Science killed my song.
Science saved "The Planets", though.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: The thing is, usage shifts the validity of different words. If people say the wrong thing long enough, it becomes correct.
Used to drive me crazy, but I have mellowed with age.
I have mellowed . . . somewhat. I have resigned myself to "hopefully," but I will never give up on the subjunctive. Never!
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: Science saved "The Planets", though.
Good point! Hadn't thought of that.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by David Bowles: It's kind of funny that there's an error in mechanics in the title of this thread, as well as a misspelled word...
Amen to that. I'm also more bothered by the horrible misuse of the term "grammar" than I am by any of the examples in this thread.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I gave up on being correct when I learned the word cactuses is now considered proper and cacti is out of date. Growing up in AZ, years of training tell me cactuses is wrong, wrong, wrong!!
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: That Rihanna song SOS drives me insane because I can't figure out whether or not I should be annoyed.
Is the chorus "It's not healthy for me to feel this. Why? Oh, you are making this hard..." Or is it, "Y-O-U are making this hard..." Or is it the cringe-worthy, "Y-O-U-R making this hard..."
WHICH ONE IS IT, RIHANNA?! Do I need to bludgeon you with my scepter of grammar or not?!
-pH
Ha ha ha, I think that every time I hear that song. It has got to be the middle one. When I sing along I mentally picture the the spelling of the word "you" and then the word "are" so that it feels right and I can continue enjoying the song.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've got a CD of a local band that I love, but one of their lyrics says
"if endless sheets of rain falls down..."
and I want to hit my head against a wall, or theirs. How easy would it have been to just leave off the s?
Posts: 293 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: The thing is, usage shifts the validity of different words. If people say the wrong thing long enough, it becomes correct.
Used to drive me crazy, but I have mellowed with age.
YOu know waht I hate about music sometimes? When your favorite songs make no sense because things outside the song have changed.
For example, I can no longer sing "Typical Situation" by Dave Matthews Band without getting angry that Pluto was demoted. It totally ruins the progression.
quote: Ten fingers counting we have each Nine planets around the sun replete Eight...
It already totally has the twisted grammar thing wrapped up, which doesn't bother me at all.
I find myself in the awkward position of wanting to either re-write the song or find another farking planet. Oy.
Science killed my song.
I was just listening to that song on my way to work this morning. I don't think you're really ever going to be satisfied grammatically with a Dave Matthews Band song. The man writes some kooky stuff. And I love every second of it.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
To actually address the topic, yeah, especially in popular music, there is definite artistic license. Even Sting, with his big ol' degree in English, distorts the "proper" way of speaking to suit the needs of his songs at times.
Standard grammar and so forth is intended for professional and academic discourse, not as a rigid system of control for all speech.
Posts: 5663 | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I have mellowed . . . somewhat. I have resigned myself to "hopefully," but I will never give up on the subjunctive. Never!
Ever hear the George Harrison Paul Simon performance on SNL in the 70s in which they sing Homeward Bound together? If you listen closely you'll notice that George is singing "I wish I were homeward bound, while Paul Simon is singing the lyric as written. I'm grin every time I hear it.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: Ever hear the George Harrison Paul Simon performance on SNL in the 70s in which they sing Homeward Bound together? If you listen closely you'll notice that George is singing "I wish I were homeward bound, while Paul Simon is singing the lyric as written. I'm grin every time I hear it.
posted
Man, I love that youtube's catalog is getting so extensive. I've got that on videotape, but to watch it I'd have to, you know, dig my old VCR out of the closet and hook it up to a TV.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
The one that always bothered me was from Dido's second album, the second song, which is called Stoned. But I went and looked it up and there are far more words in the "official" version of the song. Here is how it's written out:
<blockquote>When you're stoned, baby And I am drunk and we make love It seems a little desolate</blockquote>
But when you listen to it, it sounds like, "We make love a little desolate," and I usually add in a "ly!" at the end, though sometimes I picture Love-the-concept all alone and desolate and sometimes that makes me smile.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
(Starts at 3:45)
