quote:For every greek organization I've encountered that does excellent charity work, I've encountered one that does enough to not have their charter revoked, or uses charity as a means of benefiting themselves.
The ones I've worked with do the charity work in the way of a beard, as in, if you raise money for a homeless shelter for two weeks, it leaves you free to carouse for the other fifty.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
But does it occur in the homes, or do they just have underage drinkers? This is what I am not sure about. I've never lived anywhere where underage drinking was tolerated, ignored, or unnoticed IN THE HOME by most parents.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Don't you live in CA? Most of the kids I've met who grew up in Napa and consumed wine with most meals.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:For every greek organization I've encountered that does excellent charity work, I've encountered one that does enough to not have their charter revoked, or uses charity as a means of benefiting themselves.
The ones I've worked with do the charity work in the way of a beard, as in, if you raise money for a homeless shelter for two weeks, it leaves you free to carouse for the other fifty.
That's basically what I meant by "I've encountered one that does enough to not have their charter revoked," as philanthropy is a mandated prerequisite for most greek organizations on most college campuses.
quote:IMO, the problem here is the police department, which is essentially taking bribes from the chapters.
While some fault certainly lies with the police for being corruptible, it's silly to suggest that the organizations doing the bribing are not primarily to blame.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I drank (though never to excess), with my parents' permission, long before I was of age. I think I started being allowed wine with special meals at 15 or 16, though I don't really remember the exact age.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Note that the contention wasn't whether it happens; it was whether it happens in over 50% of all homes across the U.S..
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Exactly. I know that there were kids in my high school who drank at home with their parents' permission to one degree or another-- probably about 5% or less. There was another 5% to 10% that drank in their homes without their parents' knowledge or consent. But that is not nearly most kids in my high school. MOST kids in my high school either did not drink or did it outside of their homes if they did.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hrm. I must be odd, then; all my friends at that age were allowed (admittedly small) amounts of alcohol by their parents.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's one of those things that's going to be unmeasurable by anecdote; the diversity of experience is too great.
Personally, most (guessing 3/5 or greater) of the kids I knew in high school had been allowed to at least try alcohol under parental supervision in their homes, and a pretty large number drank alcohol at least once without parental permission in their own homes.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
That survey doesn't offer the statistic we're looking for (that I saw): how many underage people drink in their homes.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That is interesting information, but I didn't see anything about how much of that was going on in their own homes, with or without parental consent.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
NHANES is the only national survey including adolescents that I know of which asks such detailed questions (the Youth Risk Behavior Survey, Monitoring the Future study, and others tend to be less detailed). However, NHANES requires some digging. I'll see what I can find.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I remember having wine with a meal when I was six or seven. I thought my grape juice had gone bad, but for some reason I wasn't allowed to mention it or pull a face. That was the only time, and I think it was a very special occassion, and a wine from my grandparents' wee vinyard.
If I had been asked to guess, I think I would have gone more with kq's estimates, though I'm sure experience, in this case, doesn't mean a lot.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
As far as stats go, one of the SHS folks here at school told us that if you took three average college students, one usually drinks on weekends, one usually drinks a few times a month, one doesn't drink at all, and each assumes that s/he is in the majority. I wish I knew his source. I would assume that drinking habits in college tend to mirror drinking habits picked up in high school, though I can't honestly say I knew enough about any of my classmates to know how much they did (or didn't) drink at home. I'd also assume that those that did drink outside their own homes did it at somebody's house, usually at a party (versus at, say, a bar).
(On an unrelated note, the picture in Storm's link looked familiar. That exact same photo was used on top of a some handout they gave us back in eighth grade. That was years ago, so I'm not sure why I remember that so clearly.)
quote: I'd also assume that those that did drink outside their own homes did it at somebody's house, usually at a party (versus at, say, a bar).
A reasonable assumption. But that still means that drinking is not happening IN a majority of homes (unless someone finds statistics that say otherwise.)
This was quite a topic of conversation when I was in HS, both among students and among parents. Most parents who allowed their children to drink in their own home did not allow their children to drink elsewhere (except occasionally at restaurants or others' homes at dinner when the parents were present, etc.) and, for the most part, did not allow their childrens' friends to drink at their house unless their own parents were present (and rightly so.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: But that still means that drinking is not happening IN a majority of homes (unless someone finds statistics that say otherwise.)
Why? It can just as well mean that drinking IS happening IN a majority of homes (unless someone finds statistics that say otherwise).
Posts: 142 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
So we see a substantive difference between saying that a majority of minors drink illegally and saying that a majority of houses have had underage minors drinking within them?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, I am 43. When I was in high school, many of us drank, and I mean drank, not just sipped on a parent-approved glass of wine, in the home.
This was when the drinking age was, in many places, 18 or 19.
We had parties at houses.
The idea of not driving after drinking was not really in fashion.
I truly believe that the younger generation is generally more aware of the law and the dangers of driving under the influence of alcohol. When I was a senior in college(1985), I came home to Phoeninx, which had just established pretty severe dui(dwi) laws. They were one of the first states to do so. Now, it is commonplace.
(Why Arizona still has drive-thru liquor stores is a bit beyond me, though.)
This is my experience, of course, but I just things are different since the laws went into effect.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: So we see a substantive difference between saying that a majority of minors drink illegally and saying that a majority of houses have had underage minors drinking within them?
Absolutely. It is perfectly legal for a parent or guardian of a minor to serve them alcohol inside their own home.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: My university has sorities and fraternities but they are hardly on anyone's radar. I like it that way.
Amen, Teshi. I was surprised to see flyers posted on poles in September.
I was exasperated and highly amused to later see flyers posted for a "women's fraternity."
Honestly, "sorority" and "women's fraternity" conjure up two very different images in my mind. "Sorority" brings up the traditional one--monochromatic girls doing stereotypically feminine college activities--while "women's fraternity" brings up an image of rowdy party girls who drink beer like the boys and can kick your ass at beirut.
I may be alone on this, though. Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Absolutely. It is perfectly legal for a parent or guardian of a minor to serve them alcohol inside their own home.
Only in 31 states. In 20 of those, the parents can serve their children alcohol anywhere it is legal for alcohol to be drunk by an adult. The Virginia "drink at home bill" was passed last year. It tightened up the law.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:While some fault certainly lies with the police for being corruptible, it's silly to suggest that the organizations doing the bribing are not primarily to blame.
Morally? Maybe. But who cares? That's between the frat members and their deities.
Meanwhile, we should be very concerned about police who abuse the public trust. Our society gives them enormous privileges: they can carry guns, pull us off public roadways, and barge into our homes. With that comes enormous responsibility. Anyone who accepts a bribe immediately forfeits their claim to those privileges, IMO.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
And yet this map seems to indicate that parents in Virginia cannot serve alcohol to their children.
I'm a little confused by the specific legalities. In Florida, my impression is that it is legal to serve alcohol to your children in your home. The map didn't indicate any restriction at all on parents serving alcohol to their own children, though. Also, liquor stores say you cannot buy alcohol for your children. I'm not clear on where the line is--you can't buy it for them, but you can share your own?
-o-
I found that article very slanted in that it didn't quote anybody who supported that bill, when clearly there was support for it. I would oppose a bill that made it illegal for parents to serve their children alcohol.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: . . . while "women's fraternity" brings up an image of rowdy party girls who drink beer like the boys and can kick your ass at beirut.
Where could one find these girls, hypothetically?
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: . . . while "women's fraternity" brings up an image of rowdy party girls who drink beer like the boys and can kick your ass at beirut.
Where could one find these girls, hypothetically?
I dunno, but Seattle seems to have a lot of them!
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:7. Any person who keeps and possesses lawfully acquired alcoholic beverages in his residence for his personal use or that of his family. However, such alcoholic beverages may be served or given to guests in such residence by such person, his family or servants when (i) such guests are 21 years of age or older or are accompanied by a parent, guardian, or spouse who is 21 years of age or older and (ii) such service or gift is in no way a shift or device to evade the provisions of this title.
posted
It's hard for me to tell from the map - are there any states where it's illegal to give children alcohol for religious purposes? Like communion?
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm with you, Teshi. I like my Greeks on the down-low.
The only Greek club I know about at Waterloo is the Classics Society, which I headed up one year. Our only prerequisite for entrance was the ability to physically fit into our closet-sized lounge at any given lunch hour, and a certain fondness for and/or pedantry about the correct parsing of ancient verbs (in the language of one's choice). We certainly never threw anyone out for dressing in the wrong fashion, although we did on several occasions tease people about wearing a himation and calling it a toga.
My only experience with real frat/sorority Greeks has been meeting some of them a few weeks ago at about 3:00am one night, in the midst of their 36-hour rocking chair marathon for cancer. They let me crash in their secret frat house for a couple hours when I would otherwise have been stranded outdoors in the rain all night. I must say, it was an overwhelmingly positive encounter, but their gift of a couch and a roof may have biased my opinion.
In all seriousness, though, every frat/sorority person I met that night (and there were a lot) was genuinely friendly to me, without any compelling reason to be. They weren't snobbish at all.
Posts: 624 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: . . . while "women's fraternity" brings up an image of rowdy party girls who drink beer like the boys and can kick your ass at beirut.
Where could one find these girls, hypothetically?
Your local rugby team. Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just thought you guys might like an update: DePauw has severed all ties with Delta Zeta nationals (they're not in line with university values, apparently), and so, at the end of the semester the Delta chapter of Delta Zeta will cease to exist.
There's also movement by the involuntarily-alumned members of DZ to start a local sorority (no nationals) whose focus is on positive self-image. The sorority will have a much more laid-back approach to recruitment as well.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Where could one find these girls, hypothetically?
Your local frisbee teams (or the Skidmore Wombats at the very least, but from what I've seen of other teams they're just as likely).
When people start talking about the Greek system I have nothing to offer, cause Skidmore doesn't have one. We're Greek free. Reading articles like this makes me very thankful for that fact.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Astaril: I'm with you, Teshi. I like my Greeks on the down-low.
The only Greek club I know about at Waterloo is the Classics Society, which I headed up one year. Our only prerequisite for entrance was the ability to physically fit into our closet-sized lounge at any given lunch hour, and a certain fondness for and/or pedantry about the correct parsing of ancient verbs (in the language of one's choice). We certainly never threw anyone out for dressing in the wrong fashion, although we did on several occasions tease people about wearing a himation and calling it a toga.
I remember one year the slogan for the frosh Toga Party was "Get you Greek on!" And then I remember some smartarse's countering poster about a Himation Party. Good times.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
That was the only time, and I think it was a very special occassion, and a wine from my grandparents' wee vinyard.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
