quote:Originally posted by Icarus: I will, however, write in books. Even library books. As far as I'm concerned, I'm enhancing a book's value when I write in it, not damaging it.
Icky, you know I like you a lot, but it's the special hell for you!
That's one of the worst things about getting an article out of a journal in a library. The particularly important ones have underlining and writing all over them, to the point where you can hardly see the original text! And then there's the Korean comments in the margins, as well as the comments that are just absurd and the ones that think they're being funny. When I get an article from the library, all I want is that article in a readable form.
I don't obstruct the original text.
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I just added death dates for four horses in a library book after doing it for mine. It obstructed no text and it updates the book by six years.
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I try to use bookmarks (always receipts or random pieces of paper) but more often then not I just end up remembering the page number. I only leave the book face down and open if I bought it used and it's already beat up.
I don't write in novels, but I write *all over* nonfiction books - if I don't, I don't absorb a word of what I'm reading. I underline, make notes in the margins, and circle page numbers I want to come back to. And I refuse to buy used nonfiction books largely because other people, I've found, tend to have the same habit - and I cannot *stand* having someone else's writing in my book!
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Oh, me too, Kasie. I will flip through all of the used books at my campus bookstore before I settle on the one that has the fewest markings. If I can't find one, I'll buy a new copy. Other people's marks are too distracting.
(For this same reason, I never write in books that aren't mine.)
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I mostly add to nonfiction books. I argue. I call attention to unsupported statements or otherwise faulty logic. I will also correct typos or grammatical errors in any book, fiction or nonfiction.
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Before this thread, I don't think I was very aware of the existence of the "special" hell. I'd think that if you have to go to hell, it would be nice to go to the special one. It might be worth it to fold over a few pages of a book to reserve your spot.
I've heard people talk about a special place in heaven, too. You'd think that just regular old heaven would be good enough for folk. I wonder what the "special" one is like? Are there velvet ropes? Bouncers to keep out the regular heaven riffraff?
Do the folk who land up in the regular part ever look around and say, "Sheesh! I thought it would be something special."
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Ah. Well, you're still my favorite purple hippo, but I think I'm gonna have to skip reading non-fiction books after you. Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Tante, "special hell" is a Firefly reference--at least, I think that's how folks are using it.
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quote: I've heard people talk about a special place in heaven, too. You'd think that just regular old heaven would be good enough for folk. I wonder what the "special" one is like? Are there velvet ropes? Bouncers to keep out the regular heaven riffraff?
I suspect it operates on the honor system. If you know you don't belong you, you don't try to get in.
That's heaven, anyway. I doubt that an honor system would work in hell, except maybe for a section reserved for thieves. Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'd heard that phrase before Firefly. I'd say it comes from Dante's Inferno, in which different types of sinners, depending on their crimes, receive different punishments.
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I had heard "special level of hell" before, but not "special hell".
Shepherd Book's initial comment is obviously a reference to Inferno or (something like it):
quote:"If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater."
Later quotes actually use the term "special hell", referring to Book's initial comment:
quote:Mal: [resignedly] Oh, I'm gonna go to the special hell. Yup, right into the fire.
I think Book says something with "special hell" init when he pops back around the corner, but I don't have a quote handy.
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MPH: I just realized something about myself. I am perfectly happy to occasionally talk during a movie, but I'd sooner fall over dead then talk during theater.
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I've always used bookmarks but I got tired of looking around for something to use. I'm certainly not going to use a $2.00 bookmark when I could tear dollar bills lengthwise and get four for the same price. But still I NEED bookmarks.
So, I went down to the local fabric store and saw they had Red 3/4 inch ribbon on sale for practically nothing. I have been making bookmarks from that ribbon for a couple of decades now and there is still plenty left. A lifetime supply of bookmarks for only a couple of bucks. You could use a role of Christmas ribbon too, they are plenty cheap.
If I lose a ribbon/mark or can't find one, I simply cut a new one. Plus, the book marks alway fit each book perfectly. I cut them slightly longer than the book, so if they slip down from the top, they poke out the bottom. They are so cheap that it doesn't matter if they get left in books for years, or if they get lost, or whatever, because I still have a big supply on the role.
Great if you have kids who are readers, virtually an unlimtied supply of ribbon for the cost of a couple of bookmarks at the bookstore. They are very durable too.
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I was once in a Talmud class. The Talmud is in Hebrew and Aramaic, and most of us in the class weren't anywhere near conversant in either one of those. But the idea was to pick it up as we went.
So the rabbi teaching the class would read through a section, translating as he went. Then he'd pick about 3-4 of us, one after the other, and have us read it back, translating as we went. It wasn't actually the worst technique, and all the Talmud learning I've done since then has been built on that initial exposure. But other kids in my class would scribble the translation in the margins as the rabbi read it the first time. It drove me crazy. I just couldn't do it, which meant not only that I had to remember what he'd said without writing (which actually added to my comprehension of the subject matter and the reasoning involved), but it meant that I had to pay attention, which really irked me. I mean, this was high school, after all. Paying attention wasn't my thing.
This is an exception to my usual no-writing rule. Volumes of the Talmud used in yeshiva are workbooks; they're meant for scribbling in. Translations, questions, solutions... it's traditional, and almost indispensable. (They also invariably end up pretty tattered by the end of the year, which is why every yeshiva in the world has an amateur bookbinder on the premises...)
The pristine copy is the one you get for your wedding. Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Shmuel: This is an exception to my usual no-writing rule. Volumes of the Talmud used in yeshiva are workbooks; they're meant for scribbling in. Translations, questions, solutions... it's traditional, and almost indispensable. (They also invariably end up pretty tattered by the end of the year, which is why every yeshiva in the world has an amateur bookbinder on the premises...)
The pristine copy is the one you get for your wedding.
I agree, but IMO this is true for all sifrei kodesh. I've never learned Gemara inside, but my copies of several of the Maharal's and Ramchal's seforim (among others) have notes in the margins.
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Yes. I dogear. I really don't feel bad about it since most of the books I read I actually own. I rarely go to the library anymore because the local one doesn't get very many new books, and never the ones I want.
I suppose bookmarks are for the organized and tidy. Me, I'm lucky if one of the kids at my house haven't thrown my book in the toilet.
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Before I got married, I dog-eared. Never a bookmark of any type for me. Heck, they were my books, I could do what I want.
Now, I'm not allowed to dog-ear. I get nagged if I leave creases in the spine. I'm forced to use a book mark since I can't remember the page number of whatever book(s) I'm reading. It ends up being a random piece of whatever's handiest. One book currently has an envelope serving as bookmark, said envelope being larger than the book. It was handy.
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I will occasionally dog-ear books that belong to me. I buy a lot of used paperbacks from the Friends of the Library Used Bookstore for 10 cents, then donate them back to the library when I'm done, so I have no hesitation in marring them. I have a couple of bookmarks that my children have made me over the years that I use when I have them nearby, but I tend to lose them a lot, so I've been known to mark my place with a tissue or receipt or whatever is handy.
I'm surprised so many of you remember your page numbers. That is inconceivable to me. I don't notice what page/chapter I'm on when I'm reading. I haven't a clue where I am in any given book (and I sometimes have 2 or 3 in progress).
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If it's my book, I'll dogear it. I don't understand the problem there. I try to keep the receipt from the book and use that as a bookmark.
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Free fingers while trekking out to the kitchen for another cookie or two work well, too . . .
Dog-earing, highliting, and note-writing in my very own books is okay, too.
But wow! Icy -- you are brash! *admiringly* The only editing I do is the stuff they pay me for at work . . . *grin*
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I've never had a problem finding my place within a few seconds . . . never needed to bookmark or dogear. I am very careful of spines and cannot write in/mark books myself. Rarely even textbooks.
However, I adore finding other people's notes in books. Especially cheesy romance novels. I get a kick out of finding notes and highlighting in those.
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I belong to the "book is merely a vessel for the content" school, but I'm also a hyprocrite, and if you dogear one of my books I will wreak my vengeance upon you.
A particular friend of mine was hellish to borrow books from becasue he insisted on then bieng returned better than new. That is until he returned my copy of Starship Troopers covered in ink and fresh from a dunking in the local municipal baths...
That said all my textbooks (those that have been opened, ahem) have notes, underlinings and even whole passages that have been highlighted.
That said, I'm an engineer, and sometimes the important part is a formula buried within acres of waffle...
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Back when I was six, the elementary school library showed my class the film about the Happy Book with the smiling orange cover, and the Sad Book with the frowning blue cover.
One of the things that made Sad Book frown was people giving its pages dog ears.
This thread dislodged that deeply buried memory, and now another mystery of my quirks has been solved.
Twenty four years later, and I still can't make a book "frown". Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Book does in fact say "special hell." I can't remember if it was the same episode as with Saffron, but he poked his head around a corner and said "special hell!" in a singsong voice, in one episode.
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quote:Originally posted by Megan: Ah. Well, you're still my favorite purple hippo, but I think I'm gonna have to skip reading non-fiction books after you.
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Regarding the underlining, I realized in college that I had to underline things in pen in books (and write notes in the margin explaining why I underlined them) to make me think about what I was reading. Highlighting doesn't work for me, as it's too easy to go crazy with it and you can't write notes with a highlighting pen.
Unfortunately, now I have a bunch of college books that I'd like to keep around but that are unreadable because of all the underlines. I keep meaning to rebuy them.
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quote:Originally posted by maui babe: I'm surprised so many of you remember your page numbers. That is inconceivable to me.
I'm pretty sure that's why they put the numbers on the pages. Otherwise, you'd do just as well trying to remember your place in a big old parchment scroll.
And yeah, I can have a few books going at once. When I put one down, I tell myself that I'm on page, say, 493. And then I tell myself why 493 is an easy number to remember. (Four sides has a square, and Nine is the square of Three, which happens to be how many children my parents had, for example). The thing is, any number is easy to remember, if I tell myself why it is.
I've been doing that for years, ever since I was old enough to read books with page numbers and not finish them all in one sitting.
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I must say that one of the most enlightenning experiences of my life was reading a book sent to me by one of my mother's 70-year-old home health patients.
I never met her, but she sent me an oil painting and a dog-eared paperback with tiny, clear notes in many of the margins. It was like a window into the brain of an intensely intelligent woman who had lived so much more than I had at the time. I was twelve.
I don't underline, and I don't make margin notes, but reading margin notes written by a truly fascinating individual is a wonderful thing. Not to say that "special hell" rules shouldn't apply to the OMGWTFBBQ!! variety of margin notes, but still.
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I love the idea of the "carnal" vs. the "courtly" book lover...i confess with glee that i am firmly among the Carnal...
I have books on my shelves right now -- that i am not currently reading -- with dog ears in them, marking passages i like to re-read....I have written in books, highlighted favorites lines and paragraphs...I frequently bend paperbacks so the spine bends the opposite way, as that makes it easier for me to hold the book open with one hand...I leave books lying open, face down...i carry books around in my bag, and all too often find my cell phone or wallet has pushed the pages or cover open, or bent them in strange formations. Hardcovers i have more reverence for, and usually use the dust jacket or an actual store-bought bookmark to mark my place...but paperbacks are free game. I use and abuse them, but only because i love them so very much Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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And yeah, I can have a few books going at once. When I put one down, I tell myself that I'm on page, say, 493. And then I tell myself why 493 is an easy number to remember. (Four sides has a square, and Nine is the square of Three, which happens to be how many children my parents had, for example). The thing is, any number is easy to remember, if I tell myself why it is.
I've been doing that for years, ever since I was old enough to read books with page numbers and not finish them all in one sitting.
I actually asked my daughter about this last night and she does the same as you. Everyone has their own skills I guess.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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It occurs to me that part of the reason I dog ear, spine-bend and commit all sorts of book crimes is twofold:
1) I like having books that look well-read. This isn't to say I intentionally make my books look more well-read than they are, but rather that I prefer old-looking books to new-looking ones.
2) I like buying books, even if it's a book I already own, mostly because I just like buying stuff.Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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And yeah, I can have a few books going at once. When I put one down, I tell myself that I'm on page, say, 493. And then I tell myself why 493 is an easy number to remember. (Four sides has a square, and Nine is the square of Three, which happens to be how many children my parents had, for example). The thing is, any number is easy to remember, if I tell myself why it is.
I've been doing that for years, ever since I was old enough to read books with page numbers and not finish them all in one sitting.
I actually asked my daughter about this last night and she does the same as you. Everyone has their own skills I guess.
Me, too. Finding a significance plants it more firmly in my memory, for some reason, even if it's a weird significance. And it doesn't have to be for all of the number. Just a bit is good enough. We had this ongoing ticket in the helpdesk system at work with the number 423715. Well, 423 is kind of like 432, which is the exchange of the telephone number I grew up with. I didn't have anything in particular for 715, other than the fact that it's a number ending in 5, which has its own significance, right? It freaked my boss out when he found out I remembered the number and didn't have to look it up.
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quote:Originally posted by Kasie H: I don't write in novels, but I write *all over* nonfiction books - if I don't, I don't absorb a word of what I'm reading.
I'm just the opposite. When I was in college, I tried taking notes a few times, and I found that I didn't remember a thing. And the notes weren't good enough. Whereas just listening let me sort out the concepts as they came in and put them on shelves, neatly.
I had friends who thought it was impressive that I "didn't have to take notes". But that wasn't it. I couldn't take notes.
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I don't deliberatly dogear books (shudder) but I do carry them around in my purse. Sometimes they will get wet or bent and I don't get too upset by that. I have several old paperbacks that are falling to bits.
I remember my place in the book, not the page number. It is easy to find what I've read vs what I haven't read. I like the ribbon idea though. I would use bookmarks if they were handy.
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I freak people out all the time with my ability to remember unusual data and details. I've just never bothered to apply that to the book that I'm reading - I'm not sure why. Maybe because I tend to read in bed most of the time. I like to read until I can barely keep my eyes open, then turn off the light and go to sleep. If I woke up enough to look at and remember the page I was on, I'd have to read some more to fall back asleep again, so I don't.
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I do pretty much everything to my books except dogear them. If a bookmark is handy, I use that, but otherwise I try to remember the page number. If it's been long enough that I've forgotten it, I just find the place in the plot where I left off. My only problem with dogearing is that I can't ever find it. I'll do it occasionally with text books, though, because I keep a postit note in the front cover with the sections I need to read, so I already know the general area.
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quote:Originally posted by maui babe: . . . I tend to read in bed most of the time. I like to read until I can barely keep my eyes open, then turn off the light and go to sleep. If I woke up enough to look at and remember the page I was on, I'd have to read some more to fall back asleep again, so I don't.
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I always use one of my business cards as a bookmark. That way if I lose a book I have a chance of getting it back.
Also, on a related note, I move my bookmark one page at a time so that if I fall asleep reading, I know I have to just go one page back from the bookmark to find my place. Or, the bookmark is right where I left off if I managed to stay awake and decide to quit reading.
There's a worse sin than writing in library books. That is cutting the article you want OUT of the book or bound journal. Those people don't even merit hell. There's a special place worse than hell for them. If they are reincarnated, they come back as krill...forever.
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I'm as bad as leonide is to paperbacks. The ones that I own anyway, I'm extra special careful if a book belongs to someone else.
But I do dog-ear, leave in odd positions, break spines, leave open, pretty much anything. I don't care what happens to the book as long as you can still read the story. To me, that's the important part.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Writing in books that belong to you is a good thing. Haven't you guys heard of Fermat's Last Theorem? Seriously, I get lots of benefits from writing in and highlighting books that I own. It's a great practice!
As for bookmarks, I prefer to read books in one sitting. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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My biggest problem with carnal book appreciation is that the level of dilapitation generally reflects my appreciation of the novel. If I really like a novel, write in the margins, break the spine and dogear special pages, then that is the copy of the book that I want to read. So I have to shuffle and keep track of four broken apart sections of the Silmarillian and three sections of Seventh Son and so on with other favorites. It really becomes a pain in the neck when I have to bring four little books around with me instead of one. Plus, I think I'm losing pages in the middle.
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I'm forced to use a book mark since I can't remember the page number of whatever book(s) I'm reading. It ends up being a random piece of whatever's handiest. One book currently has an envelope serving as bookmark, said envelope being larger than the book. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
It was handy.
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