quote:Edit to add: Sharpton had Carolyn Kilpatrick, the new head of the Congressional Black Caucus, on the phone when he interviewed Imus, so there's your black female air time. Not much, but a start.
I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting that Sharpton give up the air time on his own show, but rather start boosting some black women for other news shows - mainstream ones.
BTW, this is not unfamiliar territory for me. When I get approached by the media on certain issues, I refer other people as often as I accept invitations - because they're geographically closer to whatever the issue is or they're a better spokesperson in the current context.
It separates advocates from self-promoters. And it ain't easy. It's really easy to rationalize reasons for not giving up the mike. Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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He's not in trouble for calling them hos, he's in trouble because of the nappy-headed comment
Since when is nappy-headed a racial comment? No one other than black people can have nappy-hair? Come on now
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One of the other comments was about them being jigaboos, which kind of cleared up any ambiguity in the racist context.
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Yes he is. There are plenty of people condemning him for that.
quote:Since when is nappy-headed a racial comment? No one other than black people can have nappy-hair? Come on now
Since a bunch of racist people used it as a common slur against black people.
Did you know there are still cheer leading squads in the South that won't allow girls with curly hair on them? The restrictions date back to the end of segregation. Coincidence?
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Maybe, but you have you be blind to assume that the real issue here is misogyny and not some pseudo-racist gaffe
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It's not a "gaffe." Imus is a racist and a misogynist. There is no real doubt about that.
quote:In the wake of the latest racial slur broadcast on Don Imus' show, the question is not whether Imus is a racist—the man, after all, admitted to hiring one of his co-hosts to do "nigger jokes" (60 Minutes, 7/19/98)—but why CBS, NBC and top media pundits seem to feel no embarrassment over associating with his racism. [...] Imus himself has referred to African-American journalist Gwen Ifill as "a cleaning lady," to New York Times sports reporter Bill Rhoden as "quota hire" and to tennis player Amelie Mauresmo as "a big old lesbo." Imus called Washington Post reporter Howard Kurtz a "boner-nosed... beanie-wearing Jewboy," referred to a disabled colleague as "the cripple," and to an Indian men's tennis duo as "Gunga Din and Sambo." In Imus' words, the New York Knicks are "chest-thumping pimps."
Imus' on again/off again sidekick Sid Rosenberg was temporarily fired in 2001 for calling tennis player Venus Williams an "animal" and remarking that the Williams sisters—Venus and her tennis player sister Serena—would more likely be featured in National Geographic than in Playboy. Rosenberg insisted to New York's Daily News (6/7/01) that his comments weren't racist, "just zoological." In 2004, MSNBC had to apologize when the rehired Rosenberg referred to Palestinians as "stinking animals."
In May 2005, MSNBC let Contessa Brewer out of her short stint as a news reader on Imus' morning show after Imus had made a daily game of crude personal attacks against her, calling her a pig, a skank, dumber than dirt and other similar felicities, all on air.
quote:Maybe, but you have you be blind to assume that the real issue here is misogyny and not some pseudo-racist gaffe
You have to be blind to not think that 1) the comment was racist, 2) the the comment was misogynistic, and 3) Imus deserves to be called on the carpet for it.
quote:For example, if he called then "dumb hos" or "loose hos" would this be the national senseation that it is?
This aura of rasism is what's giving this story legs.
Absolutely. The sexualization of women's sports gets quite a lot of coverage. When it's an inherently negative sexualization, it's going to have legs.
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quote:Originally posted by Gecko: Since when is nappy-headed a racial comment? No one other than black people can have nappy-hair? Come on now
Gecko, nappy hair is, by definition, African textured hair that is not chemical treated. (Allowed to go natural.) It is a racial comment, and it's somewhat ludicrous to say it isn't.
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Though it is possible to make a racial comment without it being a racist comment. Not that I believe that's what happened here.
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I'm not saying it wasn't a misogynistic comment, I'm saying people are going ga-ga over it because they think it's racist, and I think it's racist depending on how its said.
If Chris rock said it in the same exact tone, he'd get laughs and a people's choice award.
It's like if you hear black people say to their friends, "Hey, what's up, my nigga" and then you choose to say that to a black person in jest in an effort to be ironic, that doesn't make you a racist.
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quote:Originally posted by Omega M.: Doesn't seem on the level of the Michael Richards incident to me; it seems that he was simply trying to pay the girls a funny compliment by "talking black."
I agree it's not as bad as Kramer's on-stage freak-out. But since when is it a compliment to call a group of women you have never met hoes?
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quote:Originally posted by Gecko: I'm not saying it wasn't a misogynistic comment, I'm saying people are going ga-ga over it because they think it's racist, and I think it's racist depending on how its said.
If Chris rock said it in the same exact tone, he'd get laughs and a people's choice award.
It's like if you hear black people say to their friends, "Hey, what's up, my nigga" and then you choose to say that to a black person in jest in an effort to be ironic, that doesn't make you a racist.
So would you ironically call a college basketball team niggers to their face? Somehow I doubt it.
edit: I remember 3 years ago, one afternoon I was caught by a sudden downpour in a black lady's apartment. Another black guy was there also. I wanted to run to my apartment, so my friend took a white trashbag and split it to make an impromptu rain hat. I took it from her, poked 2 eyeholes and put it on. "White power!" I said imitating Dave Chappelle with my hand extended in the Nazi/Crazy Cracker salute. Now, I was being ironic, but it was risky. They laughed, but I got away with it only because they knew me and knew I wasn't racist, and because Dave Chappelle's show had just started. So I was a white guy quoting a black man playing a blind black white supremacist. Sufficiently ironic and funny, I judged. Plus, I was right by the door and ran like hell. endedit
As far as Chris Rock saying it, I quote a comment from Digby's Hullaballo blog:
quote: Had a black commentator called a bunch of young, white, female, college athletes "a bunch of skinny-assed cracker trailer-trash sluts"... you can imagine how long he would have had his job.
Any media usage must credit ABC News. Obama: Fire Imus Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus Firing Over Racial Slur By JAKE TAPPER April 11, 2007— In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., called for talk radio host Don Imus to be fired, and said he would never again appear on his show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.
"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."
Obama said he appeared once on Imus's show two years ago, and "I have no intention of returning." Racial Slur Stirs Trouble for Shock Jock Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women's basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as "nappy-headed ho's." has since apologized for his remarks and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.
"He didn't just cross the line," Obama said, "he fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African American women -- who I hope will be athletes -- that that somehow makes them makes them less beautiful or less important, it was a degrading comment, it's one that I'm not interested in supporting."
Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first presidential candidate to say Imus should lose his job for them.
His proclamation was the latest in an ever-expanding list of bad news for Imus. Sponsors including from American Express Co., General Motors Corp, Procter & Gamble Co., and Staples Inc. -- have announced they are pulling advertisements from the show for the indefinite future.
On Tuesday, the basketball team held a press conference. "I think that this has scarred me for life," said Matee Ajavon. "We grew up in a world where racism exists, and there's nothing we can do to change that."
"What we've been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about," Obama said.
"Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn't fun," the Senator told ABC News.
"And the notion that somehow it's cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have first amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids," he concluded.
posted
Wow, Obama made a stand. Good for him. Earlier he seemed like he was just going to express general disapproval of Imus' remarks and leave it at that.
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It's not listenership that keeps radio personalities on the air - it's the willingness of sponsors to pay the station money to reach that listenership. When the money dries up, I don't think they'll hesitate long before finding someone who can restart the flow.
Even if he gets fired, though, he'll likely end up on satellite.
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quote:Originally posted by Morbo: It's not a "gaffe." Imus is a racist and a misogynist. There is no real doubt about that.
I still consider it a gaffe. Whether or not he actually believes the things he says, given the reaction to his words, I would think he considers it a mistake to have said what he said, and thus a gaffe.
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posted
Obama made a stand, I don't think it's the right one, and it still strikes me as the easiest one. I think that firing him is wasting an opportunity for something good to come out of the situation. Firing him is a power play, a muscle move that won't change the quality of discourse in the nation, if anything, it'll push issues under the surface. The man has a huge fan base, for better of for ill, and they are not all unrepentant racists, if you are serious about reaching out to that base and figuring out what is going on, then use him, don't fire him.
quote: I still consider it a gaffe. Whether or not he actually believes the things he says, given the reaction to his words, I would think he considers it a mistake to have said what he said, and thus a gaffe.
I guess I can't go with that definition of "gaffe." Imus's first reaction the day after was to criticize people for being oversensitive. It was only after things really blew up that he considered it a big mistake.
He's got a long history of doing stuff like this on his show - or having his producer be the mouthpiece for the worst of it.
So "gaffe" means "I'm not getting away with it this time"????
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quote:Obama made a stand, I don't think it's the right one, and it still strikes me as the easiest one.
I think, based on my own cynicism, that if this was the easiest stand this would have been the stock response of all the presidential candidates.
I will say, though, there's another issue that really needs to be addressed, though. Thoroughly.
And that's the role that politicians and respected news people have played in giving legitimacy to Imus appearing on his show, ignoring his repeated obnoxious (and worse) diatribes. It's been touched upon in some of the coverage I've watched. He's carved himself a unique niche with one foot in the "shock jock" camp and the other in the "political commentator" camp. He didn't do that alone.
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posted
As to why those politicians and news people keep coming back to Imus' show, Digby makes a good point in his blog:it's so they can pimp their books there.
quote: [from a Vanity Fair piece, quoted extensively by Digby]I wonder if there's some secret media-elite handshake I need to learn, just so I can hear the jubilant sound of the cash register ringing when it comes time to sell my next book, because nobody (with the clear exception of Oprah) sells a book better than Imus.
He [Imus] likes that power, enjoys going on Amazon to see just how much he can boost a book. During the week I'm there, he has Larry the Cable Guy on as a guest-Larry has just written a book called Git-r-Done. Before the show, according to Imus, the book was about 1,800 on the Amazon list. But when he checks on the Internet just after the show, it's No. 122. [end Vanity quote]
Don Imus has been behaving badly and apologizing for it for many, many years. I expect he will continue to do so once he's finished with his two week vacation. And all of these writers will once again make pilgrimages to his show and pledge fealty to him in order to sell books. Because, unlike those great basketball players he maligned so casually --- they really are whores.
quote: I still consider it a gaffe. Whether or not he actually believes the things he says, given the reaction to his words, I would think he considers it a mistake to have said what he said, and thus a gaffe.
I guess I can't go with that definition of "gaffe." Imus's first reaction the day after was to criticize people for being oversensitive. It was only after things really blew up that he considered it a big mistake.
He's got a long history of doing stuff like this on his show - or having his producer be the mouthpiece for the worst of it.
So "gaffe" means "I'm not getting away with it this time"????
If you want to get hyperliteral, the dictionary definition of gaffe is a "social blunder or faux pas."
This strikes me as a textbook example of a gaffe. It doesn't even necesasrily matter how HE views what he said. It was still socially incorrect, and a blunder. I don't care if he says it and sticks by it or not, it is what it is.
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Is anyone here a Costello fan? Remember when he called James Brown a "Jive-ass Nigger" and then apologized and was forgiven? Why didn't anyone burn his records and demand he be black balled from the music industry?
This whole thing about being selective about who to forgive and who to shun is very weird
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posted
So is all that "Cleaning lady" and "Quote hire" sutff. That was years ago, too.
If Costello tomorrow made a racist comment toward Usher or some other black artist, would he really be facing as much backlash as Imus?
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Gecko, you really seem adamant in defending Imus to the death. Not sure why, but you do.
Comparing Elvis Costello to Imus is nonsensical.
Costello made racist comments in a single private argument(reportedly while drunk) that were later brought to light in the media. It was a single isolated incident.
Imus has made racist, homophobic and mysoginistic comments for decades, often on public radio before millions of listeners. He has repeatedly apologized, but then goes back to engage in the same behavior without reprecussion.
So, sponsors are dropping him like a hot potato, and MSNBC has dropped his simulcast. If he becomes nonprofitable due to lack of sponsorship, he'll be dropped from CBS Radio, too. Then those viewers that want to pay to listen to him will likely be able to catch him on satellite.
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Gecko, you really seem adamant in defending Imus to the death. Not sure why, but you do.
Wait--did one of the articles on this story feature a picture of Imus wearing a pair of really effeminate, purple, sequined sunglasses?
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Costello made racist comments in a single private argument(reportedly while drunk) that were later brought to light in the media. It was a single isolated incident.
Ah, the ol' Mel Gibson defense.
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quote: If Costello tomorrow made a racist comment toward Usher or some other black artist, would he really be facing as much backlash as Imus?
I'd be pretty mad at anybody that said something mean about Usher. I love his music, and he's a great performer. Of course, I don't have anything by Costello so I couldn't protest much.
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posted
Gecko, Imus makes his living making those remarks. He is profiting by them. And the way he profits by them is by accepting money from companies that want people to like them.
His ability to get people to like those companies is what he is actually selling. If he can't deliver that, then he should lose his job. And it is perfectly reasonable for the public to decide that a company associated with a man who has historically made racist and misogynistic remarks - who called a bunch of hardworking women names for no reason other than how they look - is not one they want to do business with. Certainly, it's rational to have a lower opinion of such a company.
Imus can't sell what he's been hired to sell now, because of his big fat mouth.
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posted
The irony is, all those sponsers that pulled out are going to be replaced with other sponsers who will wind up paying more for advertising space, because after this incident, Imus's rating will go up quite a bit.
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quote:It's not a "gaffe." Imus is a racist and a misogynist. There is no real doubt about that.
I would say it is unclear whether Imus is a racist and a misogynist, or whether he just likes to make insensitive jokes about race, gender, and other sensitive topics. After all, at least on the radio, there seems to be profit in insensitive jokes.
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Actually, Gecko, reports are that Imus' ratings are dropping. They're down over 25% in the NY/NJ metro area - which is one of the biggest markets in the country.
And it's not just this incident. This incident dredged up dozens of incidents in the past - so it's the net total of all his transgressions, thrust into the public limelight at the same time, that is causing sponsors to bail.
As for the "Mel Gibson defense" - Costello came first, so I'd imagine you'd have to say Mel used the Costello defense. Even so, as has been said repeatedly, it's not one incident with Imus - it's the compounded weight of dozens and dozens of incidents over a span of decades.
And Tres, while there is some truth to there being profit in insensitive jokes on radio (until one gets called on it, of course), there are several reports of comments Imus has made to coworkers in the hallways of the studio that lead one to believe that it's not just an "on air persona".
This seems to be a case of the straw that broke the camel's back. No one straw accomplished the task, it is the combined weight of so many.
Here are a couple of good articles, for those interested:
posted
A shock jock says something shocking and we are all shocked? Does this mean the end of South Park, Will and Grace, Family Guy, American Dad, Mind of Mencia, Opie and Anthony, The Daily Show, Colbert Report, Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern, and any show that has ever had insulting comments towards any group? The media just latched onto this during a slow news week and Imus was hung out to dry. Imus is irrelevant anyway. He was one of the original shock jocks that opened the door for Howard Stern but Imus' spotlight dimmed decades ago.
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I think part of the problem is that Imus has long tried to maintain a balancing act between "shock jock" and "respectable journalist".
It seems he's fallen off that particular fence, and those who relied on the "respectable journalist" side of his show are bailing out. His journalistic credibility is being torn apart, and for that he's losing his more credible sponsors and many of his guests.
Somehow I don't think he can survive as purely a "shock jock" without frequent serious guests. And if new sponsors can't be found to replace those that have been lost, I don't see him surviving on free radio at all. He'll also be satellite bound.
And, picking apart your list of radio personalities a bit, Howard Stern has been fined repeatedly for on air comments and has now moved to satellite. Rush Limbaugh was fired from ESPN for inappropriate comments made, and has had his share of bad press certainly. Opie and Anthony were fired and on satellite for years after crossing the line one too many times - and have returned in very tame form for the radio half of their morning show.
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Howard went to satellite because he sees that as the future of the business. He didn't leave because of his fines. Rush Limbaugh wasn't fired, he resigned from ESPN after the press went ballistic about his comments which the inappropriateness is very debatable. O&A were fired because they had contestests have sex in public places which is illegal, not for any of the comments that they made. I listen to O&A in the mornings and I would disagree with your comments about being very tame. Their comments about Heather Mills alone are far from being very tame. edited for all my typos and misspellings
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quote:Howard went to satellite because he sees that as the future of the business. He didn't leave because of his fines.
Clearly you were not listening to his show in the years and months before he went to satellite, DarkKnight.
Sure, he got a big pile of money and saw satellite radio as the way radio was going to be in the future. But much, much more than that, he complained constantly that FCC and station restrictions were chafing and limiting his show, restrictions he would not face if he went to satellite.
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quote:Howard went to satellite because he sees that as the future of the business.
What Rakeesh said.
quote:Rush Limbaugh wasn't fired, he resigned from ESPN after the press went ballistic about his comments which the inappropriateness is very debatable.
Yes. Ken Lay resigned, too. So, obviously, his actions at Enron had nothing to do with that - you know, it wasn't forced or anything. His own decision, surely.
quote:O&A were fired because they had contestests have sex in public places which is illegal, not for any of the comments that they made. I listen to O&A in the mornings and I would disagree with your comments about being very tame.
O&A were fired from WAAF-FM for broadcasting knowingly false information that caused public harm. They were then fined at WNEW-FM for several offensive shows, including $357k for indecency for "Sex for Sam" and were ultimately cancelled.
I listened to them when they came back to NYC, and they were constantly talking about what they could and could not say or do on air. They save questionable bits for the satellite segment of their broadcast, and self-censor quite a bit these days.
I haven't listened in a while (because, quite frankly, they've gotten stale to me), so I'm not sure what Heather Mills comments you're speaking of.
It's pretty clear, though, that "shock jocks" are finding their home on satellite, where people can pay to hear them if they want to. It's similar to cable television - you wouldn't see the average 11 PM Cinemax show on ABC, for instance.
I won't shed a tear if Imus loses his job and ends up on satellite - though I may play a tiny violin for all those who feel that he's been somehow wronged.
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quote: CBS fires Don Imus from radio show Associated Press
NEW YORK — CBS fired Don Imus from his radio show today, the finale to a stunning fall for one of the nation's most prominent broadcasters.
Imus initially was given a two-week suspension, to start Monday, for calling the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos" on the air last week, but outrage continued to grow and advertisers bolted from his programs.
"There has been much discussion of the effect language like this has on our young people, particularly young women of color trying to make their way in this society," CBS President and Chief Executive Officer Leslie Moonves said in announcing the decision. "That consideration has weighed most heavily on our minds as we made our decision."
Rutgers women's basketball team spokeswoman Stacey Brann said the team did not have an immediate comment on Imus' firing but would be issuing a statement later this evening.
Time Magazine once named the cantankerous broadcaster as one of the 25 Most Influential People in America, and he was a member of the National Broadcaster Hall of Fame.
But Imus found himself at the center of a storm after his comments. Protests ensued, and one by one, sponsors pulled their ads from Imus' show. On Wednesday, MSNBC dropped the simulcast of Imus' show.
The Rev. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson met with Moonves to advocate Imus' removal, promising a rally outside CBS headquarters Saturday and an effort to persuade more advertisers to abandon Imus.
Sumner Redstone, chairman of the CBS Corp. board and its chief stockholder, told Newsweek that he had expected Moonves to "do the right thing," although it wasn't clear what he thought that was.
The news came down in the middle of Imus' Radiothon, which has raised more than $40 million since 1990 for good causes. The Radiothon had raised more than $1.3 million Thursday before Imus learned that he lost his job.
"This may be our last Radiothon, so we need to raise about $100 million," Imus cracked at the start of the event.
quote: Clearly you were not listening to his show in the years and months before he went to satellite, DarkKnight
Clearly I was. Perhaps you have not really been listening for decades to Howard Stern? Howard Stern has been using his 'Poor me against the Big Cruel FCC' shtick for decades. He has always cried about the FCC and he skillfully uses it to keep his listeners and his critics tuned into his show. Had he not had his 'battles' with the FCC he would never have become as popular as he was. He knew exactly what he was doing. Remember he has done this dance with the FCC for decades . He has profitted greatly from his 'battle' against the FCC. He jumped to satellite for monetary reasons. His paycheck is far larger on satellite than it was on radio.
quote:Yes. Ken Lay resigned, too. So, obviously, his actions at Enron had nothing to do with that - you know, it wasn't forced or anything. His own decision, surely.
Those two events are not even close to being similar. Rush Limbaugh said "Sorry to say this, I don't think he's been that good from the get-go. I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team." The press took his statement twisted it, as you will most likely do, and turned into a "Rush Limbaugh is racist" when that is absolutely not what his quote was about. I'm an Eagles fan and I like McNabb but he was definitely given more credit than he deserved. This last season more than proved that. Ken Lay was indicted on 11 counts of securities fraud and related charges. I fail to see the similarities? Rush Limbaugh became the center of a media feeding frenzy because of the standard template of 'Conservatives are racist, especially old, white conservatives' instead of actually discussing the issue he raised. Ken Lay committed a crime.
O&A Fired! "Earlier today, WNEW, the New York radio station under the gun from the F.C.C. and inundated by public outrage over a recent stunt by their highly rated afternoon show, “Opie and Anthony”, fired the team and cancelled their nationally syndicated show. The show had aired on 17 stations. The two radio personalities, off the air since Monday, came under fire after a member of their show broadcast, via a cell phone, a description of a Virginia man and woman having sex during a religious service in New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral." "The Associated Press reported this is the second firing for Greg "Opie" Hughes and Anthony Cumia in four years. Previously, the pair was terminated when they reported on April Fool's Day that the Mayor of Boston, Thomas M. Menino was killed in a car crash."
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