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Author Topic: Soccer
Flaming Toad on a Stick
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I don't know if there's a thread on this anywhere, I haven't seen one.

Does anyone on Hatrack follow soccer? Which teams do you love, hate, feel neutral towards? What developments in the world of soccer have you on your toes? Why do you love or hate soccer. Let's use this as a general soccer discussion thread.


I'm a fan of the Argentine soccer team, and I'm also a fan of Rangers, a Scottish league club. I'm actively watching the English Premiere League, and the Champions League, and keeping an eye on the Copa America. I'm thinking that Manchester United has the EPL in grasp, and Roma will take the Champions league.

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SoaPiNuReYe
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I'm a Real Madrid fan. Naturally I feel extreme hate towards all Barcelona fans.
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Epictetus
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I usually follow the World Cup, but beyond that I don't pay too much attention. During the World Cup, I usually just pick a team to cheer for.
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Bokonon
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I'm a New England Revolution season ticket holder. Go Revs! We're gonna really miss the Deuce. On a related topic, I've been following Fulham a bit more this winter too.

In FIFA, I play a lot of Juventus, since the year I first got the game, Davids was on it. I like Davids.

-Bok

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Avatar300
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I'm a real Las Vegas fan. Naturally I feel extreme hate towards all Reno fans.
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El JT de Spang
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I think soccer is criminally boring.

I used to think that's because I didn't understand it, but now I'm pretty sure I do understand it and it's no less boring.

If there's a pickup game going on, though, I'll happily join in. Just don't get the appeal of watching it. I'm the same way with baseball.

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Zamphyr
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I follow the US Mens National Team (all age lvls). Hopefully, I'll be able to get to a Gold Cup game this summer.


Also follow MLS, mostly to keep track of the USMNT players. Living in NJ, it's been really hard to get behind the Metro/Redbulls. Disaster after disaster.... [Wall Bash]

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MightyCow
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I like Arsenal and Liverpool because they have cool logos. No joke [Smile]
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Lyrhawn
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When MLS comes to Detroit I'll become an avid fan, until then I don't have time for it. But I do love going to see games.

2,000 fans in Detroit have already put down a deposit to buy season tickets to a Detroit MLS team games, in an effort to try and prove that there is a big enough base here to get a franchise.

I tend not to follow sports in other countries, except a little bit of the Swedish Elite Hockey League.

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GaalDornick
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I follow the EPL as close as any other sport. I support Arsenal, and I hate Man United (especially Ronaldo) and Tottenham. Thierry Henry is the king.

Man U definitely does not have the Premiership in grasp, Chelsea is only 3 points behind and Chelsea will probably beat them when they play next month, just like what happened last year.

I also watch Serie A and La Liga if Valencia is playing. I don't like Madrid or Barca even though Barca has probably the most talented team ever.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
I follow the EPL as close as any other sport. I support Arsenal, and I hate Man United (especially Ronaldo) and Tottenham. Thierry Henry is the king.

Man U definitely does not have the Premiership in grasp, Chelsea is only 3 points behind and Chelsea will probably beat them when they play next month, just like what happened last year.

I also watch Serie A and La Liga if Valencia is playing. I don't like Madrid or Barca even though Barca has probably the most talented team ever.

I'm not a big Cristiano Ronaldo fan,(seriously, there's a sport for diving, and soccer isn't it), and Chelsea is pretty stacked right now, but I still think Man U will take it. They have the skill, the confidence, and the easier stretch of matches ahead of them.

What do you think of West Ham? [Evil]

I like it when the Argentine players on Barca score, but I don't like Barca. I was really happy when Messi got a hat-trick in the 3-3 tie with Real Madrid.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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quote:
Originally posted by Bokonon:
In FIFA, I play a lot of Juventus, since the year I first got the game, Davids was on it. I like Davids.

I like him too. Not to mention the fact that before this year, Juve has been stacked. They're pretty stacked, even now.
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GaalDornick
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If Vidic and Neville are still out, and Drogba continues playing like he's the best striker in the world, Chelsea will win.

I don't have such high hopes for Arsenal this year. I don't see how they can pass Liverpool if Arsenal keeps losing to crappy teams while Liverpool is playing incredible soccer. I wouldn't even be suprised if Liverpool takes the Champions League.

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aiua
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I was in Germany during the World Cup, so it was near impossible not to get caught up in the excitement. However, that has since worn off and I cease to see the draw.
I have more intelligent things to watch, like Top Chef and Dr. G. :]

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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Man U owned Roma 7-1. Wasn't expecting it to be that bad, but Roma completely fell apart.

Chelsea beat Valencia 2-1. Rough, intense game. Sucks for Valencia, Chelsea scored in stoppage time, so there was no chance to retaliate.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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All set for the Champions League semi-finals.

Chelsea-Liverpool will be a great couple of games, in my prediction. I'm predicting that it will go down to goal differential. Lots of offensive play and counter-attacking.

Milan-Man U will be pretty exciting to watch as well. Both teams are slightly tempermental, but both are incredibly talented. Another very offensive set of matches, in my prediction.

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Eduardo_Sauron
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As a Brazilian, I follow quite a lot of Soccer. My home team is Flamengo. In European championships I like Barcelona (go Ronaldo!). I don't know any American teams, though. Are there any good (I'm not being nasty. It's a genuine question).
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Bokonon
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Major League Soccer is probably the equivalent of a second tier, maybe third tier (some snobs would say much worse than that) Euro League. A bunch of the best American players have moved over, particularly to the EPL in the last 5-10 years, which contributes a little bit to this.

American soccer suffer from a lack of history, which is a surprisingly strong influence in this sport, concerning the quality. Proper professional soccer has only existed for a little over 10 years here. There is no strong style, it's like a mix of a bunch of styles, English and Central American/Mexican being the biggest influences, for obvious reasons. At the national level, however, we get lumped into a similar style as Germany and some of the Eastern European teams, because we tend to be pretty big, muscular types, though perhaps a little faster than those teams because of our fitness.

-Bok

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GaalDornick
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I'm really pulling for Chelsea to win it all. They deserve it. Plus, I hate Manchester [Wink] . I hope Chelsea wins the Treble, beating Manchester in the Champions League Finals, the FA Cup Finals, and the Premiership. That would be incredible.

They could do it, too. Shevchenko is finally starting to play like he did when he was on Milan, scoring sick goals and just being an all-around great striker. Drogba is playing like Henry in his prime. The midfield is strong as always, though it's not as good without Robben, who is the most underrated player in the world, IMO. And the defense is great of course, John Terry being the best defender in the world.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
I'm really pulling for Chelsea to win it all. They deserve it. Plus, I hate Manchester [Wink] . I hope Chelsea wins the Treble, beating Manchester in the Champions League Finals, the FA Cup Finals, and the Premiership. That would be incredible.

They could do it, too. Shevchenko is finally starting to play like he did when he was on Milan, scoring sick goals and just being an all-around great striker. Drogba is playing like Henry in his prime. The midfield is strong as always, though it's not as good without Robben, who is the most underrated player in the world, IMO. And the defense is great of course, John Terry being the best defender in the world.

They are pretty stacked, I'll admit it. If they can beat Liverpool in the semis, I don't see them going down to Milan or United. FA cup, I'm split between Chelsea and United. Both teams are coming off some big wins, and injured players keep coming back. I'll still give the Premiership to United, they just tend to score more against weaker teams.
Robben was fast, an effective crosser, and a great team player, but he dove a bit much for my liking. Shevchenko and Drogba are playing pretty great now, too.

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GaalDornick
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Oh man, did anyone see Lionel Messi's goal a few days ago vs. Getafe? Messi really is the next Maradona, it's unbelievable. This 19 year old kid has the best ball control ever, except Maradona in his prime.

The goal he pulled off vs. Getafe was just like Maradona's goal of the century. Messi has always incredible ball control, which is why he's been playing at Barca's senior club since he was a teenager, but now he's matured enough to know how to use his dribbling ability to create whatever he wants on the field.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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Yep, I saw it. Amazing.
Here it is, superimposed with commentary for Maradona's legendary goal.

It's times like these that I hate Peckerman for not playing Messi enough during the World Cup.

The Arsenal-Tottenham game today was very nice. Man U tied, so if Chelsea win their match with Newcastle, they climb within a game's reach of the top of the Premiereship.

Champions League semis coming soon. I'm already excited.
EDIT: Video was removed from YouTube, soI found another.

[ May 23, 2007, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Flaming Toad on a Stick ]

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GaalDornick
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Barcelona is so lucky to have Messi. Man, how much I wish Arsenal had him. He's 19 years old, already a huge contributor to the best club in the world, and just continues improving at an incredible rate. he's the next best player in the world after Ronaldinho. Barcelona just has soccer locked up for the next 10 years or so. [Roll Eyes]

I watched the ManU-Middlesbrough game. ManU definitely should've won it, Middlesbrough had a sick goal that wouldn't have happened if Ferdidand wasn't playing hurt or if they had any of their regular defense.

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krynn
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my dad is from Leeds, and we used to be HUGE Leeds UNited fans. i even went to some of their games, though i later became a bad luck charm cuz they didnt win any of the games i went to=(
Viduka was a BA though, and was a lot of fun to watch.

Ive never really liked Man. U. and almost always cheer for anyone who plays against them. My dad got Comcast digital cable just to get the Fox Soccer Channel. now that he is retired, he watches it religously.

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GaalDornick
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quote:
Ive never really liked Man. U.
I would hope not if you're from Leeds. [Smile] I have a friend from Leeds who loves Leeds United and is so depressed that they basically suck nowadays. [Wink]

And Fox Soccer Channel is what I watch all the time too.

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krynn
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yeah, but they arent even in the premiership anymore. its like supporting a baseball team in the minor leagues... its just not as much fun for me.
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BlackBlade
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I live in Utah so I am obligated to love Real Salt Lake, Pope is a great defensive man.

As far as leagues go I prefer the English Premier, and since my ancestors came from Bradford I feel a sense of loyalty for the team. But my hat goes off to Arsenal as when I played soccer in elementary school with my best friend we were on the "gunners" and now I just feel weird rooting for Chelsea.

Italian soccer is dead to me in the wake of the recent scandals over the last 2 years.

I'm glad Beckham is coming over to LA, the more legitimate American football becomes the better I will feel about it.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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Update (A little late)
Milan shatters Man U 3-0. Overall, that's a 5-3 win on agregate, so Milan go through.

Chelsea loses a heartbreaker to Liverpool in penalties. Solid game.

Looks like it's another Milan-Liverpool final.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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FA cup final between Chelsea and Man U on the 19th.
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Eduardo St. Elmo
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Can't say that I'm a huge soccer fan, 'cause most of the time I don't think the matches exciting enough to watch for the whole 90 minutes. When there's a World Cup at stake or another important tournament I tend to watch a bit more.
Besides our own national team, I like to root for the Scottish national team. In our own national league I like Ajax and Heerenveen, the second of which is probably widely unknown.
By now, the season is over. PSV have won the league, and Ajax hold the cup (after penalty shoot-out). But this year they've added something new to the scheme: Play-offs.
Opinions are divided on whether this was a good idea. Cynics say that the play-offs were only added to ensure that at the end of the season there'd still be some interesting matches to play and in this way 'rob' the customer of some more money. The six teams competing in the play-offs are competing for starting places in the next season's major tournaments (CL and such), which used to be accorded to the teams bases upon their final ranking in the league. Personally, I think it best to wait for a few seasons to see how this new set-up works out, in stead of critizing it from the get-go.

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GaalDornick
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Excellent article. What they say about Mourinho is true. But that's what I like about Chelsea. They play to win, not to look cool and do cool tricks. I like that. It's also why I hate Cristiano. He does alot of sick moves and does fancy tricks with the ball, but most of them serve no other purpose other than to make the highlight reel.

Great article though.

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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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It's kinda hard to swallow what they say about Drogba, too, as I think he led the league in assists, as well as scoring goal after goal. I really can't fault someone for building a defence-minded team (especially centered on John Terry), and Chelsea's offense was nothing to laugh at. That's one of the things I like about Chelsea too.
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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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In a great game, Milan beats Liverpool and takes the Champions League.
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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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And Drogba brings the FA Cup to Chelsea. I don't care what any critic says, they had a stellar year.
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graywolfe
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quote:
Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick:
I don't know if there's a thread on this anywhere, I haven't seen one.

Does anyone on Hatrack follow soccer? Which teams do you love, hate, feel neutral towards? What developments in the world of soccer have you on your toes? Why do you love or hate soccer. Let's use this as a general soccer discussion thread.


I'm a fan of the Argentine soccer team, and I'm also a fan of Rangers, a Scottish league club. I'm actively watching the English Premiere League, and the Champions League, and keeping an eye on the Copa America. I'm thinking that Manchester United has the EPL in grasp, and Roma will take the Champions league.

Thank God I put some extra $$$ on Milan today. But what killed is that I put the bulk of my bets on Barcelona, Chelsea and Lyon during the fall. Ouch.

Do I follow? Absolutly, I follow international sides (US of course, also Ireland, Denmark, Brazil, Argentina, African sides like Ivory Coast, Cameroon, Ghana, etc), I follow DC United domestically (attended their first ever game, the MLS debut loss to San Jose eleven years ago), and I follow Europe. I haven't attached absolute allegiance to many particular teams, Barca I love, when you combine the history, the beautiful uni's, and a team that features flowing, astonishing soccer with Eto, Messi, and Ronaldinho leading the attack, they are always well worth watching (a 6-0 thrashing over a strong Athletico Madrid side over the weekend was a tour de force). Watching hated Madrid, as well as Valencia and Sevillia can be quite a treat as well. Werder Bremen was playing truly beautiful soccer until they collapsed in late winter and threw away a truly promising season while they were at it. In England I have a fondness for the teams with American players (Fulham, Reading and Everton in particular) as well as teams that play attractive soccer (Arsenal)....

The key here is that there has never been a better time to watch soccer in this country. Espn2, Fox Soccer Channel, GolTV, Spanish outfits Telemundo, and Univision (and their sister channel's) provide loads of action. And this summer we get the Copa America, the Gold Cup, the U-20 World Cup (Featuring two American attacking prodigies, Jozy Altidore and Freddy Adu, as well as up and coming EPL youngster Johann Smith), and the U-17 cup, not to mention at least 3 or 4 matchdays of Euro '08 qualifying.

Plenty of action. The shame is that the US hired a total non-entity to head the US team. Nine years ago, Gulati supposedly fought for a great foreign coach, but eventually accepted Arena, a coach whose credentials then, and now are impeccable and mountains higher than any other US Born and Raised coach. Nobody comes close to touching him, loads of titles with Virginia in the days before MLS, he was the first coach of United, and took them to 3 consecutive MLS Title games, winning the first two, and losing the last with his best side, a short time after he was named the head coach (the main reason I think the team lost). He took over a moribund US side, filled with aged players, and torn up with acrimony due to the previous coach, the inept Sampson. He did a terrific job, up until injuries, and bad luck at the draw, and with the health and development of our forwards really killed us last summer.

Gulati then fired him, because he wanted the team to go in a new direction, with an elite proven coach. 10 months later he ended up hiring a mediocrity on the domestic scene that was fired by New York a few years ago, and hasn't accomplished anything of note in the MLS in nine freaking years. It was an abject horror, a total joke of a hire, and a true disaster, humorous because the new direction is apparently an Arena Protege (though they are individually rather different from what I've heard), without 1/10th the credentials. On the one hand there's never been a better time to watch soccer in this country. On the other hand, we just watched the head of our federation basically do the equivalent of hiring the Rich Kotite of soccer to take over the reigns.

Good and bad, but I still love it.

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SoaPiNuReYe
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Was anyone else surprised last World Cup with Ghana and Togo's performance, or was it just me? I think that Ghana actually outplayed Brazil, it was just that they let their guard down a bit, and that was what cost them. I was so happy when they advanced out of their group though, because they were the team that I was rooting for since the start of the Cup. I am really looking forward to seeing them play next time around, they were enjoyable to watch, same with Togo. I don't know any of the players that were on the Togo team, but I remember that they had some superb ball handlers and speed on their team, and I was surprised that they didn't advance.


I think that Arena lives around my area. I think he lives in Fairfax,VA? I remember reading it somewhere. I liked his coaching style, and it was a pity that the US did so poorly last summer, but I never expected them to do well anyways, since they were the toughest group out of them all. Anyways, I think that Gulati fired Arena as more of a statement than anything that was actually Arena's fault. Personally I don't think it proved anything though, because everybody already knew that it was going to be at least one more generation before USA really became a serious competitor in the international scene. Sure they qualified easily, but the teams they faced were all rather mediocre.

However, that MLS Allstar vs. Chelsea game (MLS Allstars actually won) was an encouraging sign.

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krynn
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Italian soccer is dead to me in the wake of the recent scandals over the last 2 years.

I totally agree. my mom's parents are Sicilian and we have even more Italian relatives. even still, i feel like a big asterisk should be placed in the history books. i really didnt want them to win, though the rest of the family (except my english father) was really happy.
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graywolfe
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quote:
Originally posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick:
It's kinda hard to swallow what they say about Drogba, too, as I think he led the league in assists, as well as scoring goal after goal. I really can't fault someone for building a defence-minded team (especially centered on John Terry), and Chelsea's offense was nothing to laugh at. That's one of the things I like about Chelsea too.

I was just shocked at how good he was this year. To be honest, he was reminding me of Cisse, and all the problems he had putting it all together in the EPL, then he has a heartbreaking cup in Germany last summer, comes back, and is an utter dynamo this past year for Chelsea. The kind of dominant player that can only get better. He went from a guy with seemingly poor touch, and iffy finishing skills, to a guy who could do virtually anything. The only skills he lacks as far as I can tell, are the sort of dribbling flair you see in Messi, and Ronaldinho, but both those players can either play as withdrawn forwards, forwards, or midfielders, while Drogba is an out and out striker so it shouldn't be a surprise that his dribbling isn't in the same form as theirs. However his finishing this pass year was clinical, his play with his back to the goal was absolutely astonishing, suggesting that even when his speed tails off in his thirties he could still have a career as a target man, just freaking leathal. Amazing. Broke my heart to see them drawn into the co-group of death with Argentina, Holland, and a Serbian side that had allowed only 1 or 2 goals in qualifying (granted they imploded in the tournament, before the tournament I argued over at bigsoccer that they might be pretenders as their performances in friendlies was not nearly as inspiring defensively (they were letting in multiple goals in most of their friendlies).

I don't really get the boring argument. There are no commercials and there is always something going on. Maybe you just have to grow up with it, I don't know what it is. To me it combines some of the qualities you see in hockey and baseball, loads of strategy, tactics are huge, and the athleticism of these guys can be astonishing. It's a truly beautiful game. There is some ugly soccer out there as well, but for those who find it boring, they should catch a Barca game, catch Werder Bremen, or Arsenal when Van Persie is healthy, watch Tevez or Messi alone and you're entertained. I think Argentina could pull down a cup simply because of these guys. Tevez is a pit bull, a guy who plays with the heart and desire of a "concrete elephant" but the grace and balance of a Ballet dancer, all in fire plug like body. Messi? What can one say. He looks like a highschool junior, but plays with the flair, and confidence of a Cruyff, of a Platini, of a cross between Ronaldo in his prime, and Maradonna. Still gutted that Germany beat Argentina soley because Peckerman had a total brain fart and kept Messi (their best freaking player) on the bench, and then was forced to keep him there after a German forward appeared to deliberately cause injury to Argentina's goalie (an injury that would later cost Argentina the game).

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graywolfe
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quote:
Originally posted by krynn:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Italian soccer is dead to me in the wake of the recent scandals over the last 2 years.

I totally agree. my mom's parents are Sicilian and we have even more Italian relatives. even still, i feel like a big asterisk should be placed in the history books. i really didnt want them to win, though the rest of the family (except my english father) was really happy.
The kind of year Italy has had when it comes to title hauls is the sort to make you disbelieve in karma, or even a God, if you took it seriously at all. Italy, notorious for only using Series A players on their national teams, wins the World Cup, after many of its top clubs spent one season (and almost certainly many more) rigging games, and after cheating Australia in the Round of 16, and after Matterazi's (the Bill Laimbeer of Italian soccer) vulgarity fest, and Zidane's total melt down they had one more co-disgrace. To add gasoline to the already combustible reality of Italian soccer this year, fans decide that murder should be a priority, and a coach and a ref are killed in a two week span in February, both trying to stop violence, not start it.

It's just impossible to support these guys, and with Italy winning the World Cup, followed by the Champions League, it's really galling. In the past I loathed them for turning such immense talent, into a cattanacio-loving borefest, and I reveled in their crushing defeats in the Euro '00 final, and the Round of 16 in World Cup '02 due in no small part to playing in the spirit of Cattanacio, but now, it's so easy to hate their league and their teams, and especially their fans (many of whom attacked the dead ref in february in soccer forums around the world, rather than the infamous murderer and his supporters)for so much more and it's really a shame because Italy is as capable of being a shining light in Europe, as Brazil and Argentina are in South America, but instead, they are a disgrace, and they only have themselves to blame for it.

[ May 25, 2007, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: graywolfe ]

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LargeTuna
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:bumping a dead topic:

I love soccer. I skipped track practice today to watch the North London Derby. The last time we lost to Tottenham in the league I was 7 years old. I was seriously brought to tears today. (not as bad as when Ramsay was injured at least). It's a passion for me, but I was genuinely surprised I was so gutted today.

I have decided to start supporting MLS aswell this season. I wen't to the Philadelphia Unon home opener and am glad my city finally has a team.

Arsenal will always be my first team though. I guess you care the most when you start following when you were little.

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Juxtapose
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I've been following the Seattle Sounders FC since last season. Despite winning their opener, the season hasn't gotten off to a great start. We gave up a goal AND the lead in stoppage time vs. Utah. It was an exciting game though.

Really wish I could get into the EPL. [Frown]

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Tstorm
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I only follow the local junior college team, because I work for them (the college).

Last season, I watched more games than normal because I was trying to get decent photos of the players. Since the games are 90 minutes long and there isn't a lot of action, I find that taking photos keeps me interested for longer.

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Valheru
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Here in england we call it football ;D
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
I think soccer is criminally boring.

I used to think that's because I didn't understand it, but now I'm pretty sure I do understand it and it's no less boring.

Man, i did the SAME thing with baseball.
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Jhai
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We're headed to a DC United game this weekend. We've only been once before - got to see Beckham's first play time with Galaxy.

I work with a very international team, so everyone is soccer mad (cricket is the strong runner-up). Too many Liverpool fans, but it's nice to be able to discuss soccer regularly, and play pickup once or twice a week. Already got our plans in for how we'll be watching the World Cup during the workday.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
I think soccer is criminally boring.

I used to think that's because I didn't understand it, but now I'm pretty sure I do understand it and it's no less boring.

Man, i did the SAME thing with baseball.
Agreed on both soccer and baseball, with one exception. I can't stand going to a live baseball game, it's even more boring than watching at home where you have distractions to get you through a game, but I can stand a soccer game if I'm actually there. I used to go to indoor league games all the time when I was a kid and it was a lot of fun.

Soccer is also a lot more fun to play, for me, than baseball.

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mr_porteiro_head
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I actually enjoyed watching soccer when I was in Brazil during the 1994 World Cup. But that was mostly because I got to participate in the mass hysteria of an entire nation.

We even got fireworks on the 4th of July when Brazil beat USA.

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Geraine
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I am pretty excited about the World Cup. Even though I am American I root for Brazil, mostly because they have a better chance of winning it, and I lived there.

Since my wife is European she grew up watching soccer as well, though she roots for Germany. We often trash talk each others teams for fun. We were on our honeymoon during the last world cup, and stayed in the hotel quite a bit to watch soccer.

As far as the Premier League I usually root for Milan with my wife. I met Ronaldinho at the airport in Sao Paulo back in 2002 and he is a really nice guy. I've been a fan ever since.

I'm planning to return to Brazil in 2014 for the World Cup. Going to a World Cup game is a lifelong dream of mine, but returning to Brazil and watching a World Cup Game? I could die happy. The only problem: If Brazil plays the USA, I don't know which stands to sit in. If the US pulls an upset and I'm sitting on the Brazilian side I'd likely be murdered in the stands.

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natural_mystic
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quote:
Originally posted by Jhai:
Too many Liverpool fans, [/QB]

Bet they're a depressed lot. This season can't end soon enough, and the owners can't sell fast enough.
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