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Author Topic: Tactics
Szymon
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Hello Hatrackers.

I would like to ask you to help me. It is not a big thing and I know I could find it on my own, but there are so many wise people here who really know things and... To conclude, I am looking for some good articles, essays or whatever on tactics, especially urban fighting, both the modern one and the historical "through ages" if you know what I mean. I found some articles that were gripping, for example studies about Warsaw Uprising in 1944 written by german officers, making notes how to fight Poles. Very... mhmmm... interesting, but not developing the subject thoroughly (I am a Pole, so that's why I found reading about "polish scumm" interesting;)
So could you please give me some links, please? I know some of you must be in the army, or have been or are interested in it. I am a complete ignorant, so that's it is so important to me that you dont give me a link to a crap (is it a good word [Wink] ?) I will simply belive everything what's written.
Thanks a lot, although in advance [Smile]

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Morbo
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Szymon, I've learned a lot about urban guerrilla and counter-insurgency tactics and strategy from this blog:
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/

Although it's focus is on 4th generation warfare in the 21st century, by necessity there's lots of historical analysis as well. Also, the commenters usually know their stuff, so you can learn from them as well as the main posts.

And there are lots of links to books. A good place to start. Good luck on your learning! [Smile]

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Lyrhawn
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Great blog Morbo, very informative.
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Szymon
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Yeah, thanks. But perhaps you've got also something more... concise.
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Morbo
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Lyrhawn, had you seen it before or just now?
It is a good blog, but it's very depressing. Sometimes when reading it I get the feeling that Western civilization is doomed because we won't be able to adapt as fast as terrorists and others working towards the collapse of the modern nation/state.
quote:
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
--from "The Second Coming" by William Butler Yeats

Don't mind me, I'm maudlin when peckish.
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Lyrhawn
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Sheesh, you want it gift wrapped?

I can think of random examples I've heard in history classes, but I don't have any specific articles to point you to.

Morbo -

No I haven't spied it yet, and I don't fear for Western Civilization. First of all, we aren't going anywhere. Terrorism can only do so much. It can't take territory it can only destroy. That's one of my favorite papers too.

I should say that, America has yet to unleash it's best and greatest weapon, which isn't military. It's the power of American democracy and the free market. We've tried shoving it down the throats of these nations who dislike us, maybe hate us, and it always creates a violent backlash. The nations that embraced it, like Japan and Germany, and the nations whose roots can be found in our independence movement, like France, are some of the greatest democracies and forces for the free market in the world, and inherent within are free societies with free thinking peoples.

We missed a key step in our march to freedom, and it's paying negative dividends.

[ April 23, 2007, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]

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Kwea
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When is your paper due?
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Szymon
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I aint got no paper due. I just need to learn about tactics and I havent much time. Imagine I am a journalist I have to study tactics. I've got no library and so I must find something on the nets.
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Lyrhawn
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Maybe in your searches you'll find a leaflet on grammar?
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Szymon
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Thanks Lyrhawn, you are very helpful. How many foreign languages do you know, huh? Enough to understand what "searches" and "leaflet" mean? You wont help me, thats all I needed to know. I dont know what "paper due" is, but from the context I thought it might be sth like a deadline of giving me work to smb. And I am sorry for my mistakes.
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Morbo
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A "paper due" means Kwea thinks you need this for school, to write a report to give your teacher, homework.

That sucks about no library access. I have fines due and can't use my library. [Frown]

Due=owed ( close meaning, anyway)

So if you have a paper due means you owe your teacher a paper, or report.

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Scott R
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I know two and a half foreign languages.

And I know how to be polite in all of them, especially when asking for free information.

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El JT de Spang
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I don't think Syzmon is a native English speaker.

Though he certainly has a good enough grasp to ask nicely for what he wants.

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Morbo
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I know two and a half foreign languages.

And I know how to be polite in all of them, especially when asking for free information.

Troll! Quit derailing my thread! [Mad]

[Confused]

Wait a tick, this is not my thread. I'm channeling someone, I wonder who? [Wave]

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Szymon
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Where have I been impolite? I told you Im Polish. I asked very kindly for the information. And I am very thankful for this blog. Really impressive.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Szymon:
Thanks Lyrhawn, you are very helpful. How many foreign languages do you know, huh? Enough to understand what "searches" and "leaflet" mean? You wont help me, thats all I needed to know. I dont know what "paper due" is, but from the context I thought it might be sth like a deadline of giving me work to smb. And I am sorry for my mistakes.

Apologies if you aren't a native speaker.

Generally I see "ain't got no" as a rather Americanized version of poor grammar, and I would imagine it's not something taught to those learning English as a second language. Unless you're learning English from MTV anyway. But then that's probably also my assumption that you learned English in school as opposed to some cobbled together source.

Anyway, I apologize for assuming you knew what you were talking about.

Edit to add: Also sorry for not paying closer attention when you said you were a Pole. I actually thought you meant you were Polish-American. There's a big Polish community around here, and it's not uncommon to meet someone who says they are Polish who is an American citizen (first, second, third generation and so on), so I wasn't really thinking in that direction.

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scottneb
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quote:
I'm not saying forget history or people, but I'd ask for a little bit more benefit of the doubt. Especially when someone says "that's not what I meant." Maybe, just maybe, it isn't what they meant. And when guessing at what someone who isn't even here meant, remember that as educated a guess as it may be, it's still a guess.

Oh, and [general] you can disagree with someone without being upset, and a discussion can end without a "winner," and you can step out of a discussion without conceding, and a smilie on the end of an insult doesn't make it not an insult, and two people can look at the same exact set of facts and come to different conclusions, without anyone being disingenuous or delusional or stupid.

'nuf said.
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Morbo
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It's all good, Szymon.

Here's some from my bookmarks. The only complete website below I can vouch for is globalsecurity.org , it's a well-respected neutral site on war and security issues. The other sites I just found because I like Van Crevald, the old pessimist.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1992/FKM.htm
Title: Clausewitz vs. the Scholar:
Martin Van Creveld's Expanded Theory Of War
Author: Major K. M. French, United States Marine Corps

Clausewitz is one of the best of the old-school military theorists. Van Crevald is an Israeli military theorist/historian specialising in low intensity conflict or guerrilla warfare. He has rejected many of Clausewitz' theories.

A Van Crevald essay, "The State: Its Rise and Decline"
http://www.mises.org/story/527

A short interview of Van Crevald:
http://www.sonshi.com/vancreveld.html

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Lyrhawn
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If you want a look into some of the early "modern" guerrilla tactics, look at what Colonial Rebels did in America. They didn't focus so much on causing damage, they were after a PR victory.

The Boston Massacre was, from what I've read (and seen a bit of supporting evidence), staged in order to try and force British soldiers into firing on civilians. The idea was to create a public spectacle that would make it into the papers and turn the population against the British. Events like that worked, and the harsher the crackdowns, the more people were pissed off.

You could also look at the Russian Bolshevik Revolution in the early 20th century. These aren't all strictly military examples I'm giving, but revolutionaries have their own type of guerilla warfare, and it's usually based on high casualties (of whoever), and publicity. Russian guerillas in the early 20th century (many of them students and middle class kids) liked to set off a bomb, wait for it to go off, wait for the people to all rush to the scene either to gawk or to help, and then set off a second bomb which maximizes casualties. Sometimes they'd also set off a third bomb, but not in the same area. You scout ahead to see where the people are likely to flee after the second bomb and that's where the third bomb goes off.

In a time without cell phone triggers, it took a lot more planning, but they were good at it. What they sucked at was not getting caught afterwards.

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baduffer
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This is the new Army Counterinsurgency manual by Gen. David Petraeus, commander in Iraq: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf
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Morbo
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Welcome to Hatrack, baduffer! [Wave]

Great link.

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Lyrhawn
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oooooo more military knowledge.

Thanks for the link baduffer.

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Kwea
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We get alot of kids coming in here asking for people to do their homework for them on a fairly regular basis.


I was asking if you were one of them, because our response is usually " Do your own work.".

[Smile]


I don't know anything to help you though, so good luck. [Smile]

[ April 23, 2007, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]

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Samprimary
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sung to the tune of Lo-Fidelity Allstars' Battle Flag:

Lyrhawn ain't got no love
for informal grammar
Lyrhawn ain't got no love
for improper
col-lo-qui-al

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Szymon
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Thanks, I knew I can count on you.
And refering to "aint got no"... I ve been to USA once. I loved it. And I read a lot in English, thats why I speak something un-school-like. When in Boston I attended a "super idiom class". That gave me a lot. And I wont forget my host father, who told me about America. Really, best month of my life.

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Kwea
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Very cool. My best friend visited Poland once, and loved it.
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Samprimary
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Whoa, a 'super idiom class?'

I would love the idea. I had a fun enough time picking up British idioms and cockney rhyming slang.

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Morbo
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Sam, you already know enough idioms for three mortals. Do you really need a super idiom class? You might throw a rod, or bust a gut, or worse.
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Szymon
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I dunno, there where things like "three strikes and you're out" [Wink] you know. And I loved chicken teriyaki on Back Bay station. I dream of coming back to the US. But first I've got to get some money and so on and so forth;)
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Samprimary
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quote:
Sam, you already know enough idioms for three mortals. Do you really need a super idiom class? You might throw a rod, or bust a gut, or worse.
I could bamfrey my april and paris and end up Bonny.
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Szymon
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wow, I can make neither head nor leg of this (or sth loke that [Wink] )
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Morbo
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Here's a mini-case study of tactics in the news.

A wall was planned and just started construction to separate Sunnis and Shiites in Baghdad. But now the Iraqi government has reversed course and cancelled the project after protests.
quote:
Officials Backing Down From Plan for Wall in Iraq
By ALISSA J. RUBIN and JON ELSEN
Published: April 23, 2007
BAGHDAD, April 23 — American and Iraqi officials appeared today to be moving away from a plan to build a wall around a mostly Sunni neighborhood here.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki said Sunday he was ordering a halt to construction of the wall around the Adhamiya neighborhood. And American officials, who did not immediately concur, indicated today they would go along with Mr. Maliki.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/23/world/middleeast/23cnd-Iraq.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
While it superficially (at first look) seems like a good idea to reduce violence, it could easily make things worse in the future.

This widow understands that:
quote:
Eman Khudair 48, a widow who lives with her family near the wall, said she feared that government forces controlling access to the neighborhood might collaborate with militias that want to enter. And she feared that the government might close off the area and prevent supplies from entering.
The blogger Digby compares it to Nazi ghettos set up for Jews. I don't know about that, but certainly it could make a minority like the Sunnis vulnerable if the US pulls out and order collapses.
quote:
Seriously, people, what are you waiting for, Kristallnacht? This is what it looked like to Germans in the 30's, and they made exactly the same rationalizations as these I'm reading right here, right now. I guess I should back up and explain that nothing good can come from sealing up the Sunnis. Regardless of how long the US stays, eventually the troops will leave. And there will be the Sunnis, in their ghetto, entry and exit controlled by the majority Shia. How long do you think it will take for an atrocity to occur - 1 month, 6 months, a year? Don't think it will? Wanna bet?
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/for-their-own-good.html
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Lyrhawn
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The wall might have made military sense, but outside of the military it would have been disastrous. That area actually has some increase in economic traffic, which they need not only to survive, but if they are ever going to grow as a city they need it. The wall would shut it down, and likely the people inside would suffer greatly.

That makes the area a perfect breeding ground for recruitment.

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