quote:I didn't see where this was answered accurately, so I'll chime in, even though we've moved far beyond this by now
The previous answers were not incorrect. She asked about the title Elder, not the office of the priesthood, and the answers dealt with the title Elder, not the office.
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posted
Tatiana, yes they do meet seperately. Apostles are High Priests. You have to hold the High Priest office to have particular leadership positions.
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posted
Actually, I'm going to quibble with you there, Occasional.
Apostle is an office in the Melchezidek priesthood just like elder and high priest are.
Inasmuch as it is accurate to say that an apostle is also a high priest, it is accurate to say that a high priest is an elder. Or, for that matter, a priest or a deacon.
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posted
m-p-h, I would have to say that it depends on what context you are talking about, so quibble accepted.
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: Actually, I'm going to quibble with you there, Occasional.
Apostle is an office in the Melchezidek priesthood just like elder and high priest are.
Inasmuch as it is accurate to say that an apostle is also a high priest, it is accurate to say that a high priest is an elder. Or, for that matter, a priest or a deacon.
I believe MPH is correct in this summation.
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posted
The bishop is the president of the Aaronic Priesthood in the ward.
The Elders Quorum President is the president of the elders in the ward.
The High Priests Group Leader is not the president of the high priests in the ward, however. The stake president is president of all the high priests in the stake.
The president of the Church is the presiding high priest in the Church.
Just to clarify, in case anyone was wondering. Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Yes, EQ & HP meet separately. And yes, apostles are "High Priests" in the Priesthood. Their office is just really high up the chain.
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posted
Quick clarification that may need to be corrected:
The Bishop is also the presiding high priest in the ward; that's why the High Priest Group leader isn't called "President."
If a literal descendant of Aaron is present, then it's his right, through lineage and righteousness, to preside over the Aaronic priesthood, but ward's presiding high priest (called by the Stake High Council, I think)is still the general leader of the ward.
Here's the scriptural reference:
quote:D&C 107
68 Wherefore, the office of a bishop is not equal unto it; for the office of a bishop is in administering all temporal things; 69 Nevertheless a bishop must be chosen from the High Priesthood, unless he is a literal descendant of Aaron; 70 For unless he is a literal descendant of Aaron he cannot hold the keys of that priesthood. 71 Nevertheless, a high priest, that is, after the order of Melchizedek, may be set apart unto the ministering of temporal things, having a knowledge of them by the Spirit of truth; 72 And also to be a judge in Israel, to do the business of the church, to sit in judgment upon transgressors upon testimony as it shall be laid before him according to the laws, by the assistance of his counselors, whom he has chosen or will choose among the elders of the church. 73 This is the duty of a bishop who is not a literal descendant of Aaron, but has been ordained to the High Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek. 74 Thus shall he be a judge, even a common judge among the inhabitants of Zion, or in a stake of Zion, or in any branch of the church where he shall be set apart unto this ministry, until the borders of Zion are enlarged and it becomes necessary to have other bishops or judges in Zion or elsewhere.
posted
Hey, you guys wanna come teach my seminary class? We're doing D&C and I mess this part up every time! Posts: 1735 | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
artee, think of it as building blocks. You don't lose anything, just add onto it.
Except for Bishops. Not completely sure of that one. I have heard it many times, but is it proper to call someone Bishop after they have been released?
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posted
I don't know, guys-- you don't call a deacon's quorum president "President" after he becomes a teacher, after all.
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posted
Bishop is an office of the priesthood, though...I think it is more like you certainly could, but we don't in general because they aren't acting in it anymore.
The man who was bishop when I was baptized was called "bishop" for YEARS after he was released - not that that proves anything.
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posted
If I remember right, the official style guide of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says that former bishops should still be called bishop unless they have a new calling that supersedes it. It's been over two years since I used that style guide, though.
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posted
An office is a calling in the priesthood. You are called to hold the office of bishop, or deacon, but you don't hold the office of Sunday School teacher or Young Men's President. Confusing?
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posted
Callings are also temporary, while offices in the priesthood are not. That is, you serve in a calling for a while and are then released. But when you cease to be the bishop of a ward, you don't cease to hold the office of a bishop in the priesthood.
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posted
There are only eight offices: Aaronic: deacon, teacher, priest, bishop Melchezedic: elder, high priest, apostle...I'm missing one. What am I missing? Patriarch?
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posted
Okay... So, who decides how to assign the callings? The Ward Leader person (Biship?)?
And, do callings have requirements? Like, should I have taken such a class in order to be an effective Spiritual Living Teacher?
Also (And I realize the fact that almost every sentence of mine is ending in a question mark has got to be annoying...), do you sing hymns?
That's something I've wondered, just because I play piano in church. Are there different hymns for the LDS church?
And do you have modern praise and worship... Contemporary Mormon, as opposed to contemporary Christian? Can you use Christian hymns in a service at the LDS church (Or is it Church of LDS?)?
And, although I've said it before, and it sounds really trite, I really *do* appreciate you guys taking the time to answer this... I'm curious, and I don't think I'm considering converting or anything, anymore than I'm dismissing the idea. For some reason, I'm just really interested. A horrible explanation, I know. :~)
I need to read the Book of Mormon... I've read the Homecoming Saga. Does that count? LOL. I'm just kidding. Couldn't resist.
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quote:Okay... So, who decides how to assign the callings? The Ward Leader person (Bishop?)?
It depends on where the calling is. Generally, if you look at the chart from the wikipedia link, the level above calls the members of the level one below.
An exception that an apostle calls the stake president, and the stake president (or high council?) calls the Elder's Quorum president and high priest group leaders.
The bishop will call the sunday school president, relief society president (women's group), young women's president, and primary president (children's group). Those presidents will pray about counselors and suggest names to the bishop, and the bishop will call them. Most (all?) other ward callings are done by the bishop.
For all the groups above, there is a stake-level presidency, and the stake president calls those.
quote:And, do callings have requirements? Like, should I have taken such a class in order to be an effective Spiritual Living Teacher?
Generally, no. There are some gender differences - young women presidents and relief society presidents are always female, primary presidents usually are, and the other presidents are all male. Primary (for kids) and sunday school (for 12+) teachers are either gender.
A member does need to worthy to hold a calling, in that there are no major commandments being broken. To decide what means is generally up to the bishop and stake president.
Also, you're not going to get called as bishop or stake president if you're not attending the temple at least somewhat regularly (if a temple is nearby).
quote: do you sing hymns?
Yep. Emma Smith (Joseph's wife) was commanded to put together the first LDS hymnbook. The edition we use today was introduced in...1983, I think. From http://www.lds.org/churchmusic/ , you can find the music, lyrics, and sheet music for most of the songs in the hymnbook. There are a few that are under copyright and so are not on the website.
O My Father is the hymn that has been referenced in this thread a few times.
quote:That's something I've wondered, just because I play piano in church. Are there different hymns for the LDS church?
Yes, some. O My Father is one; there is Come, Come Ye Saints about crossing the plains that appears in every documentary about the church and every church film. The Spirit of God was sung at the dedication of the Kirtland temple. Joseph Smith's First Prayer is obviously only LDS.
There are a lot of other hymns in the hymnbook that you may recognize - Rock of Ages; How Great Thour Art; Redeemer of Isreal; He Died! The Great Redeemer Died; Jesus, Lover of My Soul.
quote:And do you have modern praise and worship... Contemporary Mormon, as opposed to contemporary Christian?
I'm not completely sure what you mean, but I think it is no. The main meeting - we call it sacrament meeting - is pretty Western traditional.
quote:Can you use Christian hymns in a service at the LDS church (Or is it Church of LDS?)?
Yes - many (most, I think) of the hymns in the hymnbook were written by non-LDS Christians. The hymns sung by the whole congregation are from the hymnbook. For choir pieces or musical numbers, other songs can be sung although they are usually run by the bishop first.
"LDS church" is fine for shorthand. The full name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Those capital letters and hyphens are oddly important - there are a few other small groups that have the same name, but without a hyphen or else the "day" is capitalized.
quote:And, although I've said it before, and it sounds really trite, I really *do* appreciate you guys taking the time to answer this... I'm curious, and I don't think I'm considering converting or anything, anymore than I'm dismissing the idea. For some reason, I'm just really interested. A horrible explanation, I know. :~)
No problem.
quote:I need to read the Book of Mormon... I've read the Homecoming Saga. Does that count? LOL. I'm just kidding. Couldn't resist.
Oh, so close! I do look at the book of Mosiah slightly differently now that I've read the Homecoming series. If you want a copy of the BoM, you can get one from www.mormons.org.
posted
We have three men called "Bishop" in our ward-- the current and two past bishops. Generally only those who lived in the ward during the time the men were bishop call the older men who are not currently bishop "Bishop."
My husband was in a ward where the bishop was called again as bishop-- except he wasn't set apart as bishop again, his keys were reactivated. Apparently you don't lose them, they are just, well, deactivated for lack of a better word, once you are called as bishop of a ward you are always bishop of that ward and your keys can be reactivated by the proper authority. I am not sure if this applies to being called as bishop of another ward.
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quote:The High Priests Group Leader is not the president of the high priests in the ward, however. The stake president is president of all the high priests in the stake.
quote:The Bishop is also the presiding high priest in the ward; that's why the High Priest Group leader isn't called "President."
I asked our High Priest Group Leader about that tonight, and he was very firm in the opinion that the Stake President is the president of the Melchizedek Priesthood for the area, not the Bishop.
quote:I am not sure if this applies to being called as bishop of another ward.
I believe so.
According to the wikilink, you only have to be a High Priest to be a counselor to the President of the Church -- not an apostle. I wonder if that has ever happened since the Quorum of the Twelve was established.
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posted
Both Charles W. Nibley and J. Reuben Clark were called as counselors in the First Presidency without being ordained apostles, so it has happened at least twice.
Posts: 74 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:The High Priests Group Leader is not the president of the high priests in the ward, however. The stake president is president of all the high priests in the stake.
quote:The Bishop is also the presiding high priest in the ward; that's why the High Priest Group leader isn't called "President."
I asked our High Priest Group Leader about that tonight, and he was very firm in the opinion that the Stake President is the president of the Melchizedek Priesthood for the area, not the Bishop.
Although the Bishop is the presiding High Priest in the ward, the reason the HP group leader is just a group leader (IIRC) is because the quorum is organized on the stake level, rather than on the ward level. So, pretty much what porteiro said.
quote:
quote:I am not sure if this applies to being called as bishop of another ward.
I believe so.
I'll second that. Bishop is an ordination, not a calling, and so is permanent. Keys would have to be given (in a new ward), but he would not need to be re-ordained a Bishop.
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quote:Both Charles W. Nibley and J. Reuben Clark were called as counselors in the First Presidency without being ordained apostles, so it has happened at least twice.
Thanks. I thought that had happened, but I didn't know the specifics.
I'll bet this is how they've gotten the odd situation mentioned in this wikilink where an apostle is removed from the Quorum of the Twelve because of an excess of apostles.
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: The Bishop is also the presiding high priest in the ward; that's why the High Priest Group leader isn't called "President."
Aha, you have stepped right into a question I've been asking for several months: namely, why is it a high priests group and not a high priests quorum?
The answer I was given which seemed most "right" to me so far was that there is no high priests quorum on the ward level; the high priests in the stake make up a quorum, and the stake president is their president.
Does that sound right to you? Any references to confirm/negate this? (Seems to me that something I read either in the D&C or in Mormon Doctrine confirmed this idea of the quorum existing at the stake rather than ward level.)
ETA: And now I'm a classic example of not reading all the posts in a thread before posting. I see that SenojRetep already made this same point. And maybe others did, too, but I haven't read all of them. Sorry. Just got excited when I saw that Scott's comment tied right into my current question, I guess!
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quote:The answer I was given which seemed most "right" to me so far was that there is no high priests quorum on the ward level; the high priests in the stake make up a quorum, and the stake president is their president.
That sounds correct to me.
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quote:Both Charles W. Nibley and J. Reuben Clark were called as counselors in the First Presidency without being ordained apostles, so it has happened at least twice.
Thanks. I thought that had happened, but I didn't know the specifics.
I'll bet this is how they've gotten the odd situation mentioned in this wikilink where an apostle is removed from the Quorum of the Twelve because of an excess of apostles.
There's also the odd case of Alvin Dyer who was ordained an apostle, but was never a member of the quorum. He served as a 3rd counselor to David O. McKay, but when the First Presidency was dissolved at Pres. McKay's death, Elder Dyer didn't return to the quorum (never having been a member). Instead he was made one of the Assitants to the Quorum, and eventually absorbed into the First Quorum of the Seventy. But since Apostle (like Bishop) is an ordination within the Priesthood, he remained an Apostle, even though he was never a member of the quorum.
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posted
The questions have gotten pretty far afield from the concepts in Lost Boys, and the Cards have asked in the past that there not be a thread specifically for a general discussion of Mormonism.
My belief is that their purpose for not wanting such a thread is that it's prone to deteriorate into a person or people trying to pose "zinger" questions in such a way as to denigrate something the Cards hold dear while maintaining a plausible deniability against accusations of less-than-well-intentioned questioning. I don't think this thread is at that point at all, and I'd like to see it not get there. If there are more questions regarding how/why the LDS Church is portrayed in the novel, I think those are ok.
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