I love the vibrancy, diversity, access to so many resources, freedom to move about and change jobs, natural resources, ingenuity, literary and artistic history, amazing biographies, generosity, openness, kindness, and state-supported educational system, among other things not at the tip of my tongue.
Lots I want to make right, but many things I want to keep right, too.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
It's a fair question. I am not a liberal, but I like
freedom of speech freedom of religion supermarkets wide open spaces some reasonable expectation, most of the time, that horribly unjust things won't happen to me or those I love Internet the world's most vibrant pop culture (although Japan is competition) the world's most vibrant Christian community (I think) pluralism: plenty of others to discuss things with pluralism: when one group gets too restrictive or cliquish, you can drop out and join another the freedom to create clubs around pretty much anything we want, from goldfish to politics to personal growth jobs that pay enough tons of natural beauty easy and relatively affordable travel more private charity relative to other rich countries relatively low taxes we take action first, or close to first, whether it's fighting terror, helping after the tsunami (or warning its victims before it hit), preventing pandemics, what have you in most areas of life from medical care to where you live to 51 flavors, you get to pick if there's anything I need, unless it's ridiculously expensive, I can probably get it standard of living: electricity, phone, etc. international food low unemployment -- I'd hate being chronically unemployed
Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007
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"Dude, a balance between liberals and conservatives is what makes this country better..."
As lovely as that may sound, I'm not sure any solid liberal or conservative could honestly agree. Quite the contrary, it is the opposing party that is hindering progress.
That said, I also love all the things about this country that others have already so poetically described.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I love the fact that, however many steps back we may take here and there, for the most part the American society has been moving towards more and more freedom and social equality.
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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As a member of the secret liberal cabal let me say there are so many things I love about America that I don't have time to write them down just now.
However, one of my favorite things is the attitude of the people.
Americans will do almost anything you ask them to, and almost nothing you tell them to.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: America, right or wrong: when right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be made right.
Didn't you move to Canada?
Yes. And I'm still working on making and keeping America right, because I am a citizen of America, not Canada -- with all the rights and responsibilities that entails. (Some of which are quite expensive and/or tedious.)
I don't see a problem with that. My work crosses borders -- although I can see this may not be true for some. However, mine is not so limited.
---
Edited in follow-up: And the same is true for my husband. He was contracted, as a Canadian, to do work for the Canadian government while living with me in the US. He also worked for US institutions as part of his job, too, just as I currently work for a Canadian institution while also completing my US obligations.
We will likely continue to cross the border throughout our work lives, and we are looking into having a home base in both countries. We have thought about establishing dual citizenship for us both, and that is an option, but it comes with some questions and entanglements that may or may not be worth the hassle. As it is, we can both work in either country and cross the border freely -- those are our current immediate priorities.
We are lucky to have such opportunities available to us, and we work hard to maintain and better the systems that trained us.
Again, I see nothing odd, immoral, or hypocritical about this. Do you, Jon Boy and MrSquicky? Or were the comments above intended merely as humor?
posted
That's great. I'd love to hear the same from them, too.
It has been an area of -- well, not contention, but at least tedious snide repetition -- in my life as of late, particularly online. I can deal with slings and arrows fairly well, but I prefer to keep my friendly relations clearly friendly when I can.
The world, alas, is confusing, and I am far too often feeling the need to gird against it as of late. *woebegonish
---
Edited to add (and *prickly )
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Am I a liberal? I don't know. My most important concerns involve emphatically liberal solutions, and the vast majority of villains on my political list are token boys of the conservatives, so I might as well be. What I'm sure I make a good representative of, though, is a person who's mostly stuck bitching and carousing at the status quo. Does this activity mean that I must hate America? Does it mean I'd like to be 'liberated' by China or Iran? The notion is absurd. I, like most involved and politically active citizens, complain and pillory because it's my job as an American who understands that apathy and complacency only give insincere politicians plenty of breathing room to continue with what they're doing. While I think we've gained a hell of a lot more in the past 50 years than we have lost in the last six, we still need to make sure that we're always taking more steps forward.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese:That's great.
:: laugh :: Point taken. I should have said that based on what I know of the two posters the chances that their posts weren't written in jest are slim to none. If it were, say, Occasional or Jay I'd have assumed the opposite.
But even so, that's just my read, and at the end of the day doesn't necessarily contribute much in the way of reassurance.
quote:It has been an area of -- well, not contention, but at least tedious snide repetition -- in my life as of late, particularly online.
Really? How utterly...idiotic of whoever has been flinging that kind of crap at you.
quote:I can deal with slings and arrows fairly well, but I prefer to keep my friendly relations clearly friendly when I can.
Sure, makes sense.
quote:The world, alas, is confusing, and I am far too often feeling the need to gird against it as of late. *woebegonish
((CT)) Sorry you've been finding yourself in need of emotional armor lately.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I'm curious as to whether people who are self-described conservatives have reasons OTHER than the ones listed here (by liberals and non-liberals alike) for loving America.
Maybe some of you could give us your list of positives about America?
Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Mine was definitely meant as a joke and I didn't conceive of it being regarded as anything but. I am pretty much certain that Jon Boy was joking as well.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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By the way, my positives about this country have been listed already, but I'd like to add that I enjoy:
- Living in a country with a high standard of living. We have access to the best of what the world has to offer.
- The rule of law and the habits that go with it are well-engrained here.
- Our educational opportunities (both public and private) are excellent.
- We are a pluralistic society and we actually worry about things that pose a threat to that tradition.
- We have strong building codes and a good deal of effort and money is spent on health and safety of our citizens.
- Our armed forces are answerable to the civilian power, and the vast majority of the people in the military not only support that ideal, but spend their careers defending it.
- With notable recent exceptions, private property rights are upheld by our legal system.
- We have some form of separation between church and state.
- We can legally and openly criticize our leaders and hold them accountable to the same laws as apply to every citizen.
As others have said, I don't believe we are perfect, nor do I think we're the only country on the Earth with some or all of these attributes.
Posts: 61 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese:That's great.
:: laugh :: Point taken.
No, really, I did meant that was great. It was reassuring.
quote:
quote:The world, alas, is confusing, and I am far too often feeling the need to gird against it as of late. *woebegonish
((CT)) Sorry you've been finding yourself in need of emotional armor lately.
Well, you know, the saying that "the only consistent thing about all of your disatisfying relationships is you" does have some merit. I've been a real prickly pear lately. [Thanks for the many kindnesses, Noemon. ]
---
Thanks for the reassurance, MrSquicky. I appreciate the friendship that lies behind the calm, thoughtful response.
I'll try to pull a few of my thorns. *grin
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Where do I sign up for this liberal cabal? I've been meaning to join a cabal for a while now, and this one seems pretty snappy!
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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I love that I have the right to say whatever I think needs to be said
I love the fact that I can criticize the government without serving jail time as a result.
I enjoy the fact that I have the right to dissent peacefully and assemble with like-minded individuals
I love that I can go to Vegas without wading through some bureaucracy for permission
I love that I have both the freedom to ruin my life or make it wonderful.
I love that I can read any book I want and listen to any music I want.
I love the fact that I can vote my conscience regardless of my race, religion, or party without fear of consequences.
Posts: 681 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I love the fact that almost everywhere, including places in the middle of nowhere, you can find a toilet where you can sit down in an enclosed building and use toilet paper provided for you.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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To be honest, most of the things listed here are things you can say of many other countries as well. And some things, such as gay rights or women's rights, are actually handled better in countries such as Finland or Sweden than in America, I feel.
Anyway, what I find positive about the US is the diversity of the society in that there are many different people with many different views, and it's taken as a granted that there are many people with many views, and that it's even seen as a good thing, not as a threat. (Though I suppose this'd also apply to other countries as well, such as Canada.)
Also, the free toilets, if that's true.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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Free toilets stocked with toilet paper really are the norm here, Snail. I've been startled by the lack of them in most of the other countries I've travelled in.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by MightyCow: I love the fact that almost everywhere, including places in the middle of nowhere, you can find a toilet where you can sit down in an enclosed building and use toilet paper provided for you.
The value of this cannot be overstated.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:I love the fact that almost everywhere, including places in the middle of nowhere, you can find a toilet where you can sit down in an enclosed building and use toilet paper provided for you.
Yes, I agree too! Can we universally agree that this one thing about America, at least, is great?
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Yes, I think so. It was such a pain trying to find a public bathroom in the UK. I was surprised at how many large businesses did not have them.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Javert Hugo: I almost hesitate to ask, but what do people do instead?
*Warning YOU asked for it. Talk of doing the unmentionable below.
I still have no qualms with peeing outside so long as nobody else can see me, or if from a distance I look like I am just standing there, this works best a night.
Where I grew up in Hong Kong if I was walking down the street and I saw a little kid simply squat by the side of the road I would have thought nothing of it (Chinese people routinely cut slits in boys pants so they don't have to drop their pants and try to squat with them in the way. Little girls would be held up with their front facing upwards by their parents and told, "OK Go" whatever vile subtances projected from their orifaces would then safely spray and plop onto the street in full view of the public.
If I walked down an alley and saw a man simply peeing against the wall I did him the courtesy of ignoring him and his naughty bits, he did me the courtesy of not pretending I was not there, i.e turning and offering me a salutation.
I still don't know what adult girls do when they need to go.
In Malaysia you find some bushes, they are to be found EVERYWHERE.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Javert Hugo: I almost hesitate to ask, but what do people do instead?
In Finland there are public toilets, they just cost money to get into.
But yay! Free toilets are definitely a Good Thing. Why can't we have free toilets? Though it's probably okay if they don't have free toilets in Sweden either, we just need to get them first...
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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My favorite thing about America is the concept that if you work hard, you can become anything you want to be. It's not that America doesn't have classes, but through hard work and a touch of luck, a person can become achieve more than they would expect from the background they were born in to. I don't know that this is totally unique to America, but I do think it's more internalized as part of our cultural ethos here than elsewhere.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:My favorite thing about America is the concept that if you work hard, you can become anything you want to be. It's not that America doesn't have classes, but through hard work and a touch of luck, a person can become achieve more than they would expect from the background they were born in to. I don't know that this is totally unique to America, but I do think it's more internalized as part of our cultural ethos here than elsewhere.
That's good and bad, especially when it comes to moral compromises. If you are willing to exploit all of your advantages and the disadvantages of others, then the whole world is at your feet. The flip side, of course, is that people who aren't willing to do this aren't trying hard enough. There is a difference between hard work and dirty work, and I'm not sure which our great American ethos rewards and encourages.
quote:There is a difference between hard work and dirty work, and I'm not sure which our great American ethos rewards and encourages.
Irami, your decision to treat all life as a narrative at times makes it very hard for you to see the obvious: that both are rewarded and encouraged, typically by different people and to different degrees.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I'm probably as liberal as you can get around here. And I think that Occasional's OP, along with his other posts on the subject, does insult people like me with the presumption that we (a) are not patriots and (b) somehow need to "prove" our loyalty. Both are wrong, and this is why.
I love that our Founding Fathers had the opportunity to set up a monarchy and/or dictatorship, and refused to, out of principle.
I love that, when our first attempt at establishing a governing body failed, we didn't devolve into chaos and destruction, but through civil discourse, rewrote our Constitution and emerged stronger than ever.
I love that the law of our land is a living, breathing document that has the flexibility to meet the changing needs of its people.
I love that people of all faiths, creeds, races, and worldviews are welcome here, and have the same right (albeit sometimes not the opportunity- but we're working on that!) to participate in government as anyone else.
I love that you can drive from city to city and never experience the same local culture twice.
I love our national parks, our forests, our bays and rivers and lakes and skies. Seriously, they're freakin' beautiful.
I love that my parents were able to move here without understanding more than basic English, and through dedication and hard work, put me in a situation wherein higher education is not only possible for me, but expected of me.
Yep. American kinda rules. We're nowhere near perfect- in fact, sometimes we're downright scummy. But I think we're doing all right.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:My favorite thing about America is the concept that if you work hard, you can become anything you want to be.
Your socioeconomic strata is more rigidly defined and static in America than it is in most of the EU countries.
Ironically, the best way to get the American dream is to try for it in Europe.
Yes thank you for that unashamedly objective fact posted in a thread designed to allow people to talk about what they appreciate about America.
Please continue posting disparaging remarks about the this country whilst simultaneously talking about how great Europe is. I am so happy your continent stacks up to our country so well.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Uhh there's nothing disparaging about it at all.
It's just one of those quirky facts, since the american dream is literally the rags-to-riches mobility deal, you know?
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Uhh there's nothing disparaging about it at all.
It's just one of those quirky facts, since the american dream is literally the rags-to-riches mobility deal, you know?
Yes that is part of it. But unless you have some sort of advanced degree in sociology with an emphasis in American/European comparison, or else God himself decided to let you know that this is true, I just don't know how you can make such a claim.
I might as well argue that people in Europe compared to America are less in love with each other which makes Paris' claim to be the "City of Love" bogus.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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He could have looked up "social mobility" in Wikipedia at some point, which leads to a study from the London School of Economics link :
quote: The report focused on how education affected the life chances of British children compared with those in other countries. It put the UK and the US at the bottom of a social mobility league table of eight European and North American countries, with Norway at the top followed by Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Germany and Canada.
That would alleviate the need to postulate a less likely divine revelation Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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Mucus: Well of COURSE the LONDON school of economics is going to place the UK at the lower tiers of the study! Don't try to rustle my position with your "facts"
posted
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at.
If you're accusing the school of bias simply due to its location in London, that seems to be a rather "ad hominem." In addition, even if it did falsify its data to make the UK look bad (and I'm not entirely sure what its motives would be), why would it also falsify its data for the US versus the other six countries?
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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