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Author Topic: Ursula K. LeGuin's Funny Response to a Slam on Genre Fiction
Noemon
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Back in May, Ruth Franklin's review of Michael Chabon's The Yiddish Policeman's Union was published in Slate. It irritated me from the first sentence:

quote:
Michael Chabon has spent considerable energy trying to drag the decaying corpse of genre fiction out of the shallow grave where writers of serious literature abandoned it.
...and continued to do so with the absurd digs against genre fiction such as this:

quote:
With The Yiddish Policemen's Union, Chabon has finally made the only use of genre fiction that a talented writer should: Rather than forcing his own extraordinarily capacious imagination into its stuffy confines, he makes the genre—more precisely, genres—expand to take him in.
I may have written an outraged post about this review back when it was first published; I know I thought about doing so.

In any case, Ursula K. LeGuin has written a pretty funny response to the digs against genre fiction in the review. Her piece can be found in this month's Ansible. It's short, and I'd just paste it into this post, but I don't think that Card would appreciate my doing so. The piece is near the end of this month's issue, in a section called "On Serious Literature".

[ July 05, 2007, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]

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FlyingCow
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[Big Grin]

Love it.

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Primal Curve
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Emailed you through the board, Noemon.
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Noemon
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I can't get to that address from work, but I'll read it as soon as I get home, Primal.
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rivka
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"reeking of rocket fuel and kryptonite"
[Laugh]

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Zalmoxis
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Brilliant. Hilarious. And entirely justifiable.
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ketchupqueen
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*giggles*
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Xaposert
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quote:
Michael Chabon has spent considerable energy trying to drag the decaying corpse of genre fiction out of the shallow grave where writers of serious literature abandoned it.
Ratatouille must have had a strange effect on my brain. For some reason I can't read the above quote without hearing it in the tone of Anton Ego...
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Primal Curve
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quote:
Originally posted by Noemon:
I can't get to that address from work, but I'll read it as soon as I get home, Primal.

Oh smeg. I asked that you email me a copy of the article since I couldn't access that site at work.
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Zalmoxis
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The bizarre thing -- and Le Guin hints at it in referencing Cormac McCarthy -- is that the decaying corpse really is literary fiction and it is the literary writers who have been using genre fiction to try and keep the corpse animate and plodding. Example number one, imo, would be Philip Roth's "The Plot Against America."

This is not to cast aspersions against Roth. I'm one of those who loves genre fiction that is a bit (or a lot) literary and literary fiction that is a bit (or a lot) genre.

Besides, if you look at where some of the finest creative work is being done -- television -- almost all the good stuff has some genre elements to them. And by fine creative work, I mean work that is capable of reaching a popular audience but still exhibits craftsmanship, clever/sophisticated writing, excellent characterization and makes some attempt at trying to describe/predict/diagnose/commiserate with/critique modern society.

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Nathan2006
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The more I hear of LeGuin, the more I like her.
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Lisa
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"McCarthy establishes himself here as the closest thing in American literature to an Old Testament prophet, trolling the blackest registers of human emotion to create a haunting and grim novel about civilization's slow death after the power goes out."

From the Publishers Weekly review of Cormac McCarthy's The Road. LeGuin is right. What makes this book more than warmed over WarDay?

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Puffy Treat
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That was brilliant. [ROFL]
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advice for robots
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[Smile]

LeGuin-love.

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Phanto
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I can't believe Yaddo is that big a deal; one of my old teachers goes there frequently!
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Uprooted
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[Hat] Ms. LeGuin!

That lady's got some writing talent; maybe she should try her hand at it professionally!

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Olivet
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
"McCarthy establishes himself here as the closest thing in American literature to an Old Testament prophet, trolling the blackest registers of human emotion to create a haunting and grim novel about civilization's slow death after the power goes out."

From the Publishers Weekly review of Cormac McCarthy's The Road. LeGuin is right. What makes this book more than warmed over WarDay?

Basically, vocabulary. He's the only writer who has ever prompted my Beloved to look up a word. If you've ever played Scrabble or, you know, tried to stump him with random gleanings from Webster's Collegiate you'd realize what a feat that is. He loves Cormac McCarthy.

I've never understood this snobbery. I think it may be a uniquely American thing. Brit Lit seems to make fewer such distinctions.

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Farmgirl
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Oh my! That is AWESOME!

[Smile]
FG

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DavidR
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quote:
I've never understood this snobbery. I think it may be a uniquely American thing. Brit Lit seems to make fewer such distinctions.
My own observations are that it is more of an ivory tower thing. Okay, that might be a little strong, but I know someone who was working on a doctorate in English Lit and had her dreams and work shot down by entrenched prejudice against genre fiction. She was analyzing some aspect of science fiction for her doctoral thesis and had worked closely with her advisor at every step, but when it came time to submit and defend her thesis the snobbery against genre fiction won the day and her thesis was rejected as an unsuitable subject for a doctoral thesis in English Literature. I heard, but was never able to confirm, that her advisor left the program shortly thereafter in protest. I have known Lit students who sneer at genre fiction and authors of the same anywhere near their fellow Lit students and their professors but when at the book store away from campus I see them buying books by those very same authors in those very same genres. I also noticed that over the years from freshman to graduation more and more of them actually internalize that prejudice and stop reading genre fiction. On the other hand I know plenty of well educated people with masters and doctorates that read genre fiction voraciously, but they are generally not English majors or Literature majors.

But I am only one person seeing things from one point of view. I'm sure that there are other contributions to the snobbery.

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Primal Curve
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Thanks for sending me the article, Noemon. It was a good read.
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mackillian
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I have a degree in English and read genre fiction. Actually, I'll read anything, or at least try to read it.

I did read McCarthy's The Road (because I love post-disaster movies and books). Not only is his vocabulary a bit on the obscure side, but he also likes to use sentence fragments.

A lot of them. I nearly stopped reading it because I couldn't adjust to accepting that many sentence fragments. Then I got used to it and finished the book. At least it was short.

As for LeGuin's article— [ROFL]

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FlyingCow
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David, I got that sense as an English major, too. That thesis story is terrible, though.
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Olivet
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*raises hand* Also an English Major. I have noted this attitude in a lot of educated 20 somethings, and it surprises me. Margaret Atwood's last... thing ... was solidly scifi, too.

Thing is, I don't think you see that so much in Great Britain, though I confess this opinion does not stem from direct experience. Just from the things people in my writing circle have said (several Brits and a few Canadians mixed in with a few Americans-- one of whom is a Lit professor whose YA novel will be published by Harper Collins next year). "Genre" seems to be a non-issue for the Brits, not much of an issue for the Kanuks, and a label that annoys the Yanks to no end.

Thus ends my anecdotal evidence from a minuscule sampling. [Big Grin]

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Cactus Jack
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I hate it when readers of literary fiction think their fiction is "better" than some other kind of fiction.

I mean, jeez. It's not like Sci-fi is romance or anything.

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Miro
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[Razz]

I spent two years in high school arguing about this with two different English teachers. I couldn't understand why they wouldn't agree that books we read like Brave New World and Beloved were SF/F regardless of how 'literary' they might be. Bugged me to no end.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Cactus Jack:
I mean, jeez. It's not like Sci-fi is romance or anything.

[Razz]
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Snail
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Hmm. I don't think the divide between genres in Finnish fiction is that great either. I suppose there are always some people who would refuse to recognize the merits of scifi or fantasy but that is usually very rare. More common is that they review a fantasy/scifi book that is clearly meant for adults and praise it as great YA fiction.

I think in Finland the divide is in that some books are not considered "Finnish" enough. It doesn't matter what genre they come from, for some reason people just feel that they don't tell the reader anything profound enough about Finnish culture. Or that they give people a too negative view of the Finnish culture or something. In general I suppose a fantasy novel not set in the real world could easily fall into this trap.

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Tante Shvester
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That was a Thing of Beauty! Thanks for the find.
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Olivet
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*sigh* I was a romance snob. I think it started in Christian school when the only books the other girls would check out at the library were YA Inspirational Romances. I read one, and went back to other things without a backward glance.

I DO think that a lot of romance novels give young women unrealistic ideas about mature relationships, but that doesn't mean it's all like that. I think it was Diana Gabaldon who converted me (though I have lost much of my interest in that story line). I am looking forward to more Lord John mysteries, though.

One last note about McCarthy-- Sutree has a lot of beautifully executed prose, but the lack of punctuation, or say, quotation marks for dialog in some of it annoyed me on a molecular level. Arty bas- erm, bass player.

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Belle
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I'm pretty much STILL a romance snob. The Outlander series was okay, but like Olivet I've lost interest in it. I just don't get interested in a story line that consists of "Will he get the girl?" especially when the answer is always "Yes."

As for literary fiction snobs, maybe I'm just lucky at my university but I find the professors are not snobby. Students are, more than the teachers. I think it's because they think they should be, or something. But whenever I've discussed books with professors at my university I find we're reading the same stuff.

One professor has a big stuffed spider on his office door with a sign "Beware of Shelob".

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by mackillian:
I did read McCarthy's The Road (because I love post-disaster movies and books). Not only is his vocabulary a bit on the obscure side, but he also likes to use sentence fragments.

A lot of them.

Just out of curiosity, are the sentence fragments he used ones like "A lot of them"?
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Miro:
[Razz]

I spent two years in high school arguing about this with two different English teachers. I couldn't understand why they wouldn't agree that books we read like Brave New World and Beloved were SF/F regardless of how 'literary' they might be. Bugged me to no end.

Brave New World, I know. What's Beloved?
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ElJay
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A Nobel Prize winning novel by Toni Morrison.
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Noemon
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by mackillian:
I did read McCarthy's The Road (because I love post-disaster movies and books). Not only is his vocabulary a bit on the obscure side, but he also likes to use sentence fragments.

A lot of them.

Just out of curiosity, are the sentence fragments he used ones like "A lot of them"?
That was the joke, I think.
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ClaudiaTherese
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quote:
Originally posted by Noemon:
That was the joke, I think.

*nods

How I took it as well.

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Liz B
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I like romance just like I like mysteries. The answer to "will he get the girl" is always yes, just like the answer to "will they catch the bad guy" is always yes. It's the getting there that makes the story. (Or not. It depends a lot on the book and the author.) I adore romantic comedy movies, too, when they're well done.

I think it's fine to be a snob for yourself--there are some books, authors, and series that I think are truly terrible--but you shouldn't look down on other people for reading and enjoying the things you think aren't worth your time. There's a lot of TV out there that I think is a waste of my time, for example, but I don't presume to think that it's a waste of someone else's time.

On the other hand, there is a certain level of literary snobbishness that's appropriate. For example, much as I love romance, I think it would be hard to study it as itself: as a genre it probably doesn't support any interesting research questions. The interesting thing to study is how the act of reading romance is viewed by society, and other ways that the books interact and change with culture. Science fiction, on the other hand, could likely easily support a variety of research questions.

I believe in being delighted that people are reading anything. [Smile]

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Belle
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quote:
I believe in being delighted that people are reading anything.
Without a doubt. (another useful fragment) Which is why I let my kids read what they like. To my great sadness, my 9 year old does not like fantasy or SF. But she reads like a fiend if the content is either non-fiction or historical novels like the "Little House" books. I encourage that by getting her books she likes, even if it wouldn't have been my first choice.

I certainly meant to refer only to myself when I used the term "romance snob."
I'm

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Olivet
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Just to clarify-- I don't look down upon people who enjoy things I don't enjoy, for the most part (I say 'for the most part' because there are things people enjoy that I would look down upon, such as a kid who gets off on torturing animals. Stuff like that, but not stupid entertainment stuff. That is strictly To Each His Own territory.)

I have not really enjoyed most romances I've tried to read (though there haven't been many because of a few unpleasant experiences) and the same is true of some fantasy and scifi, as well.

I'm a person of peculiar tastes, to be sure. I think my mood at the time may have some influence on how much or how little I enjoy something, since i have revisited things I liked or disliked and found that my reaction to them changed.

Not only is taste an individual thing, but also may vary from day to day for the same individual and their circumstances.

So don't take it personally. [Smile] (I recently made a comment about a song that I hate with a passion, admitting that there were a number of ways you could take it but that I always saw it a certain way. Naturally, someone took offense. [Roll Eyes] One person's "beautiful love song" can be another person's "pathetic plea for sexual favors sung badly" and neither has to be evil or wrong. It's all a matter of interpretation. [Big Grin] )

But maybe I am really evil, if they want to see it that way. Prairie Dog of Drama.

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rivka
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Y'all should join us on goodbooks.com. Feel free to totally ignore my romance shelf. [Wink]
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Liz B
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Olivet and Belle -- just to clarify, I didn't think you were being snobby about romance reading. Your posts made it clear you were writing about your own experiences & opinions. I just wanted to add a pro-romance comment to the discussion. (I realize that the "you" in my post makes it sound like I was directing it to specific posters. D'oh.)

I actually started seriously reading sf/f (in middle & high school) because those books frequently had satisfying romantic subplots, so I could get my fix without the stigma of carrying around a romance novel. Yay Anne McCaffrey et al!

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theCrowsWife
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Psst, rivka. It's goodreads.com.

--Mel

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Zalmoxis
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Ah, man. Not another social networking site to consider. Aaaah. There's too many! I've considered Friendster, MySpace, Facebook, Yelp, proprietary ones for both of the colleges I attended, and several more that I can't remember.

Where's the brain exploding smiley?

[so far I'm sticking with Facebook].

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by theCrowsWife:
Psst, rivka. It's goodreads.com.

[Blushing] I ought to know better than to try to post on my way out in the morning. Thanks!

Zal, the reason I joined this one, even though I've avoided almost every other social networking site is that it's all about the books. [Big Grin]

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