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How do you react to Vets of the Iraq war? What do you say to them and how do you react to their involvement in the war?
Posts: 1221 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Depends on the circumstances. I respect them for the most part, although I have very mixed feelings about how we got involved in the first place. They are doing a thankless job for low pay, and none of them had any say in policy....
For the most part I just say welcome back, and shake their hand.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Same as with any other military veteran: make an extra effort to yield in traffic or in a standing line, say thanks, ask about how things are going [if it is a situation in which small talk is appropriate].
I am curious as to why you ask, though.
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Edited to add: For clarification, I didn't mean to imply anything by noting my curiosity. I imagine there are many different reasons one could have for asking, but it honestly wouldn't have occurred to me to treat Iraq war vets any differently than other vets.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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I can react with respect or with disdain, depending on the circumstances.
I met one of my close friends when she had just gotten back from an ~18 month tour. She's a cute, spunky, short asian girl that you'd never in a million years guess was a soldier, and she didn't mention that she'd just gotten back from being deployed until I asked her directly where she had moved from. I respect her as a person and her involvement as a soldier in a war I don't like enhances rather than diminishes that.
On the other hand, I've met people who made sure I knew within five minutes of meeting them (edit: in casual dress, in a social situation) that they were veterans and paraded it about. These people earn nothing but my disdain.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I'm of two minds, being that I'm against the war. Part of me supports their commitment and service to this country and respects that. The other part of me thinks they're just adding to the problem by volunteering to go.
But things aren't as black and white as that. And the reasons that any particular soldier became involved with the military could be very varied. Like a friend of mine who's been in the national guard for over 10 years and was sent out there two years ago. As well as a multitude of other reasons.
Whenever I've spoken to one, I'm always friendly and refrain from bringing up my personal views on the war unless they're asked for so as not to belittle what that person must have gone through out there.
Another friend of mine has been out there multiple times, and we've had some pretty in depth conversations about the war. It's interesting to debate with someone who's actually been there. Though we're relatively close and I can be more open and honest with him than I would be with someone I've just met. I try not to offend people if at all possible.
What are your thoughts Kranky?
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:On the other hand, I've met people who made sure I knew within five minutes of meeting them (edit: in casual dress, in a social situation) that they were veterans and paraded it about. These people earn nothing but my disdain.
These people rub me the wrong way too. People who think they are better than the rest of us because they served out there AND feel the need to make sure everyone around them knows this. There are many jobs and professions that are important for the safety and well being of the american public. this is just one of them. I worked for the DOD for a few years working on testing systems for Howitzers and M1A1s, so soldiers in the field could trouble shoot faulty parts. I'd call that relatively important work, but I never flaunted it.
But I also recognize that this is just a particular subset of soldiers that act this way, and is more a general personality thing. Meaning, they're the kind of people who would act that way no matter what job they had.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: Meaning, they're the kind of people who would act that way no matter what job they had.
I tend to think you are right about that. Unless it is someone I am close to and/or would have to interact with on an extended basis, I don't see much of a good cost:benefit ratio to making my negative reaction known.
I've known just as many WW II vets who'd fit into this category, as well. It doesn't (in my limited experience) seem to be associated with any one war over another. As you note, Strider, it seems to be more of an underlying personality issue.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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My interactions with veterans is usually in one of two situation: saying goodbye to a friend being redeployed again or being yelled at by a veteran because our business doesn't provide them discounts (though I would happily discount something if I glance their military ID in their wallet.)
Of veterans in general, I don't ask about the war unless they offer stories. Its not a subject I feel comfortable talking with them about. Most of the time we just talk about their life and what's happening with their homes and families. The majority of my friends prefer not to talk about the military unless its to brag about a promotion. Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Why would I be expected to react at all? I don't react differently upon meeting a firefighter.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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It would not be uncommon for me to reveal that I moved from Utah less than a year ago within the first five minutes of small talk. If I had been serving in Iraq, I reckon that it would be likely to come up just as quickly.
I don't think that it's a behavior worthy of even mild disapproval, let alone "nothing but disdain".
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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because a lot of people have very strong emotions and reactions to the war in Iraq, and soldiers are reminders of the war and often times stimulate those feelings. And I think Krankykat was asking how we deal with those feelings(whether positive or negative) in the presence of a war vet.
posted
My first reaction was identical to TomD's. Why should I react differently to them, unless they give me a specific reason to?
<My experience> Last spring, I met a veteran of the Afghanistan campaign, who happened to be an old college acquaintance. She flew helicopters in Afghanistan, during her one-year tour. After I asked her a few polite questions, she wanted to tell me everything. We talked for a couple of hours, and I learned quite a bit about her experiences.
Before that conversation, I didn't respect her much. Without diving into the details, I'll just say we had different ideas in the same student organization back in college. After the conversation, I respected her more as a person. She had changed significantly since the last time I met her, and that's an understatement.
I wouldn't treat her any differently because of her experience, and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't want me to. Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Most of the veterans I meet (that I have any reason to know are veteran) I meet at peace rallys. Otherwise:
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: Same as with any other military veteran: make an extra effort to yield in traffic or in a standing line, say thanks, ask about how things are going [if it is a situation in which small talk is appropriate].
If we get into an extended conversation, and I am asked my opinion , I will share it - making sure to point out that I believe the blame for the war rests with the Administration, not the soldiers.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: It would not be uncommon for me to reveal that I moved from Utah less than a year ago within the first five minutes of small talk. If I had been serving in Iraq, I reckon that it would be likely to come up just as quickly.
I don't think that it's a behavior worthy of even mild disapproval, let alone "nothing but disdain".
I don't think we mean the same thing. Here's what I said with bolding for emphasis:
quote:On the other hand, I've met people who made sure I knew within five minutes of meeting them
The odds of one being a soldier coming up fairly quickly in conversation with me can be pretty good, but there's a world of difference between the subject coming up naturally in conversation and being forced into it. Compare:
quote:Me: Hey, I'm Bill's friend, Andrew. Guy: Hi, I'm Mike, I went to college with Bill. Me: Oh really? Were you an accounting major, too? Mike: Nah, mechanical engineering. Good with numbers, just in a totally different way. Me: I could never get into that stuff. I work in marketing, but I was an English major, so I'm just glad to have a job at all! Mike: Don't worry, if that falls through, you can fall back on your vocal performance minor! *laugh* Me: So are you working as an engineer now? Mike: No, actually, I joined the army after I graduated. Me: Oh, no kidding? Still in? Mike: Yep! Me: Awesome. Been deployed recently? Mike: Yep, got back from a year and half tour back in February.
With:
quote:Me: Hey, I'm Bill's friend, Andrew. Guy: Hi, I'm Mike, I went to college with Bill. Me: Oh really? Were you an accounting major, too? Mike: Nah, mechanical engineering. An accounting major couldn't perform field repairs on his own aircraft! Me: ...ah, you're a pilot? Mike: Yep, just got back from Iraq. Man, that was crazy...
posted
I saw my friend Joe from high school at a party a few months ago, and I asked what he'd been doing the last 4 years (we're both 22). He'd dropped out of college, joined the service, and became a field medic--and told me he was going back in a few weeks.
I can definitely say I wasn't ready for it--the idea that I'd been in college the last 4 years (goofing off mostly, "finding myself"), and he has lived this completely different, selfless life--going through things that I can hardly imagine. I was in shock and just said "wow...why are you going back?" He said "because it's not over yet"
I have incredibly mixed emotions about this. First, I know that if I had to go to Iraq, I would come back with PTSD. Joe wasn't an emotionally stable guy in high school--did a lot of drugs, wasn't a good student. I don't see how he could come back from seeing what he sees every day and not be scarred for life. I feel like his life would be ruined because of Iraq, but maybe that's just because I can't imagine it any other way.
I guess it would be right to treat vets like anyone else, as they might be wanting a degree of normalcy, but I can't help feeling awed at the idea of someone just like me (or 4 years younger) risking their lives and seeing the awful things he sees. I feel small compared to him.
But it seems so pointless to me. So many people dying when they don't have to be. I just don't get it.
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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I respect Iraq war veterans just as I would any other veteran of our armed forces. They are not responsible for the decisions made by their superiors, and although I agree that there are a great many non-military folks who make crucial contributions to our society, there's something to be said for actually putting your life on the line. I reserve the same measure of respect for the police and firefighters. For veterans of Iraq, however, I do feel an additional sensation of sadness and regret, as there is a significant chance that they returned from the field damaged, whether physically or mentally. As a citizen of the country that put them in harm's way for no good reason, I can only offer them my apologies.
My one specific exception to the above is a guy who I've known my entire life- our parents were friends before we were born. He just finished officer school, and has made numerous comments about wanting to join the military so he can personally unleash some violence upon the Iraqi people (words along the lines of "can't wait to shoot some Arabs," IIRC). I have no respect for that kind of attitude, and find it frankly disgusting. But obviously, he's not typical of our men and women in uniform.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I meet lots of vets while I'm slugging. I don't treat them any differently than I do normal people, except that I tend to eavesdrop a bit more on their conversations, if they have any.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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"I've met people who made sure I knew within five minutes of meeting them (edit: in casual dress, in a social situation) that they were veterans and paraded it about."
Probably poseurs: combat vets don't talk about it with civilians of new acquaintance. Barely talk about it with soldiers who haven't been there unless they know that the soldier has received deployment orders into a combat zone. Ain't much sense in talking cuz ya really hafta have been there to know, to have a feeling for what they're talking about.
LOTS of fakers after Rambo/etc made being a Nam vet glamourous. Enough so that the adage amongst vets became: If a new acquaintance brings up their war experience, they're probably civilians or soldiers who've never left the States. And if they'd been overseas, the closest they ever got to a PurpleHeart was risking clap in a brothel or being tossed out of a bar.
About the only exception was conversation between vets who recognized each others' units and area assignments.
Held pretty much true from WWII* through the GulfWar. eg Lots of talk from GulfWar vets whose closest approach to combat was hearing distant explosions and seeing dust clouds rising up from somewhere near the horizon; if even that much. And even more talk from people who were never even near the MiddleEast.
Now... Internet acquaintance and Internet anonymity allows a little more openness. Hard to resist posting a retort when there are ignoramuses spouting off on a favorite forum. But you are still highly unlikely to meet a real combat vet face-to-face who's gonna jumpstart a conversation about being there.
* And probably earlier. Never met a preWWII combat vet.
quote:combat vets don't talk about it with civilians of new acquaintance. Barely talk about it with soldiers who haven't been there unless they know that the soldier is about to be deployed into a combat zone.
My experience does not agree with this statement.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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The people we meet probably don't want us to immediately tell them the nuances of what we do and don't approve of what they've been doing for the past year, or whether they're right to mention it. I think the best approach to finding out a new acquaintance is an Iraq war veteran would be either "Thank you" or "Welcome back."
Posts: 544 | Registered: Mar 2007
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It would never occur to me to ask someone if they were a veteran, so the only way it would come up is if they or someone else mentions it. If it comes up more than once, and the person seems willing to talk about it, I have started a conversation with "Hey, do you mind talking about the war in Iraq? (if yes than) Cool. I really don't know more than what the media tells me about the situation, so please correct me if I'm wrong about something, or just being a total ass." The few times I've started that conversation the guy has laughed and said "Sure, no problem."
Otherwise I probably wouldn't mention it at all, and maybe be a little more conscious of political comments.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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I treat them like the heroes I believe they are. Those there was some tension with someone I knew that joined the Marines and my husband had really gone overboard in trying to talk them out of the Marines (as a branch of the service.) So it has always been a bit awkward with him, and for that reason it will break my heart if he is hurt or killed in Iraq. I guess I should write to him more.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Since many of the returning Vets have skills that I am looking for as an employeer, I would be likely to try to recruit them.
Posts: 1167 | Registered: Oct 2005
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My brother has spent two tours in Iraq and may start a third soon. I was the best man at his wedding. I told him how proud I was to see him in his uniform (he was wearing his dress uniform). At the end of my speech, I led the entire room in a round of applause for all the servicemen in the room (which was quite a lot as my brother is a pretty popular NCO).
I am also vehemently against the war and a blue-blooded liberal. What say you to that?
Oh, right, I'm probably a liar.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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I get excited and ask them if they learned any Arabic, and I show off my, like, six words of Arabic to them. My seatmate on the flight back from England said that he had only learned the basics, like Thank you and Where's the bathroom and Drop your weapon.
It's just a matter of courtesy. If someone tells me something about themselves, I try to say something polite and pleasant to them; if it's something that really makes me uncomfortable, I'll try to change the subject.
Posts: 910 | Registered: May 2000
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That contrary to the bumper stickers and t-shirts it's obviously possible to support the troups and not support the war, and all of this 'with us or against us' rhetoric is a bunch of bull. Oh wait, you probably weren't asking me, 'cause I already agree with you.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Javert: I usually ask: "So what is it really like over there?"
And I've received as many different answers as vets I've spoken too. Seems about right.
I actually usually get the exact same answer: "really boring."
Further probing, however, tends to reveal that "boring" includes driving four axle transports over rough terrain at 45 mph while bullets are bouncing off the window next to your head, raiding buildings, etc.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Why would I be expected to react at all? I don't react differently upon meeting a firefighter.
I react differently to firefighters. I make sure my kids know what sacrifice they are willing to give. Plus, it's a cool job.
As for soldiers, I make it a point to say kind words and shake their hand. I never intrude, but if the situation rises, I like to make sure they know I appreciate them. I have been known to buy the meal or buy drinks for soldiers in airport restaurants.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I react differently to firefighters, too. We saw some at Starbucks the other day and after pointing out the fire trucks and firefighters to Emma, she told me she "want[ed] say thank you." So we went up and Emma told them "Thank you keeping people safe and helping us." They loved it and gave her and her sister "honorary jr. firefighter badge" stickers. I'm pretty proud of that kid. She's a good kid.
I am not sure I would react the same way to an "Iraq war" vet. While I respect the military, and appreciate those willing to serve, and don't know the circumstances that led to them joining, I don't want to let my personal feelings about the "war" color the way I treat a soldier (or marine or airman or sailor.) For instance, I don't want to unintentionally hurt someone who did join because they thought the action they would be involved with was right-- because I appreciate those who do fight for what they believe in, even if it is different from what I believe in. So I try to stay noncommital and if appropriate express the fact that I have a great respect for the military and those who serve, but I'm not going to say "thank you for protecting us over there" if I don't really feel that I'm being protected over there. Know what I mean?
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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