posted
This is a question I've been wrestling with lately.
Without going into too much personal detail, for my mother's sake, I have been asked by her to be her confidant in her personal matters -- issues that she's been wrestling with and dealing with. As her child, this makes me uncomfortable. There are things about her life that I disagree with strongly, and would rather not have to try to advise her on when I think she's doing inappropriate things. There is a strong part of me that says "hey, i'm your kid, go find a friend to confide in!" While at the same time, there's a part that says "you expect her to listen to your troubles and advise, why is this any different?"
I feel instinctively that there is a difference, but I can't rationalize it intellectually. A parent/child relationship IS different than a friend/friend relationship. There are certain things one expects of one's parents, in regards to support and care and understanding, that one doesn't necessarily expect of a friend. But i feel torn, and not a little bit guilty, at asking my mother to be my confidant, while at the same time fighting tooth-and-nail not to be hers.
I have no problem with no longer dumping my issues on my mother -- I feel like I'm at an age now where I don't *need* to run to my mother for comfort, and by the same token *shouldn't,* since I'm an adult and presumably capable of figuring out my own baggage.
When do you stop going to your parents for advice and support? Since, as a child, you expect a certain level of understanding and a sympathetic ear from them, are you also obligated to return the favor? And is there a point at which my mother's wish to spell out, in graphic detail, all the issues she's been dealing with (in my specific case, I've learned things about my parents' marriage (they are now divorced) that I don't think i needed to know, or that were any of my busines) becomes inappropriate?
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posted
I feel that in the situation you describe, it is completely okay for you to suggest she find another confidant. Especially since it involves other people quite close and since it sounds like there's some major dealing that needs to be done, it really would be better for her to find someone else to talk to.
Specifically, I don't think it is really ever okay for a parent to ... do something that could adversely affect a child's relationship with the other parent.
You're a good daughter - you're thinking about this and are concerned for her. Parent/child relationships inherently flow more in one direction than in the other, and that's okay. She can find another confidant, but you don't get to find other parents.
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posted
Wow - she is putting a HUGE amount of trust in you by asking this of you.
I will be the first to admit that my children (who are all over 18) are much more my confidants than any other person in my life. There is no one else I trust to open myself to beyond them.
You are seeing this as a burden and an aggravation, when I am seeing it as an honor.
My dad was my closest friend and confidant. If he was alive, I would NEVER have stopped going to him for advice and support. (and I'm 46). It was a very special thing, a special depth to that relationship. I'm sad that I never got to that level of relationship with my mother.
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posted
Well, I'm a bad person to ask because I'm very close to my mom. We're good friends, almost more than parent-child now. I confide in her about parenting and general life frustrations, and she confides in me about stuff too. There are things I don't tell her. I never talk about my marriage to Jon Boy, except in very superficial details, like the fact that he gets half a day off on our anniversary, which is nice. In turn, she never talks about her marriage to my dad. But otherwise, we chat like friends do, about pretty much everything.
I don't talk to her because I feel like I owe her; I talk to her because I enjoy doing so.
As to what children owe their parents, I would say they owe them respect where earned, occasional visits (again, where earned), and appreciation (where . . . oh, you get the idea). Children don't owe bad parents anything; good parents deserve quite a bit more in the way of respect and appreciation. I feel my parents deserve to see their grandbaby, as well as pictures and updates on him---because they want that.
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quote:Originally posted by Leonide: A parent/child relationship IS different than a friend/friend relationship.
Absolutely, 100% agreed. It is NOT a reciprocal relationship, and IMO it is very unhealthy for a parent to try to make it so.
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: I have no problem with no longer dumping my issues on my mother -- I feel like I'm at an age now where I don't *need* to run to my mother for comfort, and by the same token *shouldn't,* since I'm an adult and presumably capable of figuring out my own baggage.
That makes me sad. I don't believe there exists an age at which turning to one's parent(s) for comfort and advice should stop. However, in your case, I understand why it might be better not to.
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: When do you stop going to your parents for advice and support?
As I said, in a healthy parent-child relationship, never. It's not the same as when you were a kid -- hopefully you are able to figure many things out on your own, and presumably you have other adult sounding boards. But why would you stop appreciating your parents' wisdom and experience just because you get older? (According to Mark Twain, it's only when you're an adult that you really appreciate it to begin with, and I think that's accurate.)
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: Since, as a child, you expect a certain level of understanding and a sympathetic ear from them, are you also obligated to return the favor?
As I said, it is not a reciprocal relationship, nor should it be. Of course you should be sympathetic and supportive. And if the boundaries are well-respected, that can and should include a sympathetic ear. However, that becomes difficult if the boundaries are not appropriate.
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: And is there a point at which my mother's wish to spell out, in graphic detail, all the issues she's been dealing with (in my specific case, I've learned things about my parents' marriage (they are now divorced) that I don't think i needed to know, or that were any of my busines) becomes inappropriate?
posted
I'm seeing it as a burden for manifold reasons, though. Among them, as kat pointed out, that my mother is confiding in me about my father, and also her current husband. But aside from that, it's gotten to a level where I'm just uncomfortable with the things I'm hearing about. I disagree with a lot of her choices and think she's doing some hurtful things, but she wants me to support her like a friend would, and I just don't see how I can do that. Besides which, she's my mother! Should I have to re-define how I view her, how I interact with her, because she doesn't have any close friends to confide in about her marital issues?
At the same time, it's not healthy to look at your parents as these paragons of virtue that never make a mistake or do hurtful things. I just don't know that I have enough respect for her choices and actions to be a true friend to her. God, that sounds terrible. I love my mother, and I like spending time and talking with her. I like knowing I can call her and vent, and get advice, and I like having someone there who will always care about me. But I don't want to be her friend, not in the way she wants.
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quote:Originally posted by Leonide: I disagree with a lot of her choices and think she's doing some hurtful things, but she wants me to support her like a friend would, and I just don't see how I can do that.
Setting aside the fact that she is your mother for a moment, IMO, if I had a good friend who was doing things I thought were bad for her and/or those around her, I would TELL her that.
Now, given that this is your mother, and the already too-blurry boundaries, that is not what I would suggest you do. But regardless, I disagree with what it seems your mother's view of a supportive friend is.
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posted
I agree that it is not healthy for her confidence with you to include information about her relationship (past or present) with your dad or her current relationships with men.
That topic I would consider inappropriate even in the close relationship I have with my kids.
I'm glad you brought up this subject. Perhaps I should ask my own kids if they are comfortable with the level of friendship/sharing we have (in case I have made them uncomfortable with it at some point).
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posted
Oh, I have told her. We had a fight about it, where she tried to deny a lot of the stuff she's tearfully confided to me in the past. That's a whole other enchilada, though. Point is, I did what normal friends do -- expressed disagreement, and then backed off. She accused me of 1) trying to poison her marriage, 2)listening to her problems just to throw them back in her face at a later time, and 3) gossip-mongering, and spreading rumors about her and her husband around.
Now, obviously, this takes the situation beyond my initial question, and I know that's all kinds of messed up, etc. My real question was how much do I owe her, and I tend to agree with you, rivka, that there are boundaries there, that a parent/child relationship is not automatically reciprocal, and that she is expecting too much of me.
quote:Originally posted by Javert Hugo: Good for you.
Agreed.
quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: I agree that it is not healthy for her confidence with you to include information about her relationship (past or present) with your dad or her current relationships with men.
That topic I would consider inappropriate even in the close relationship I have with my kids.
I'm glad you brought up this subject. Perhaps I should ask my own kids if they are comfortable with the level of friendship/sharing we have (in case I have made them uncomfortable with it at some point).
FG, to me the fact that you are very clear on that crucial boundary, AND the fact that you see this discussion as an opportunity to explore the relationship with your kids, are both exactly WHY you can have both a very close and a healthy relationship with your kids. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I vividly remember a conversation at the age of 12, when I told my mother, "Mom, if you're going to be a skank, I don't want to know about it."
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posted
When you come up with a good answer let me know.
I do think a key component is trust. Although my relationship with my mother is almost 180 degrees from yours.
For example, I've never trusted my mother not to blab my business (as a kid she viewed my business was her business anyway) So if there was anything that I actually felt was private, I simply couldn't tell her.... yet she thought we were actually "good friends" for years, and I let her think it because it wasn't worth the fight to enlighten her otherwise, and because if I'd given her the information I was witholding it would then be all over the world anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Leonide: [qb] A parent/child relationship IS different than a friend/friend relationship.
Absolutely, 100% agreed. It is NOT a reciprocal relationship, and IMO it is very unhealthy for a parent to try to make it so.
I think a lot of it depends on how old the child is, to be honest. I am 37, and my parents are still together, so my situation isn't parallel, but I am very close to my parents, particularly my mom. Both my parents have made a point of not involving me in disputes between them, and I am thankful for that, but pretty much anything else is fair game, and I wouldn't have that any other way.
I know that sometimes they struggle to remember that I am not still living with them, and that just because they think I should do something their way doesn't mean I will see it that same, but they do a great job of trying to hold that back now that I am an adult.
I see nothing wrong with our relationship being between equals now that I am an adult, and if it wasn't that I would have a huge issue with it. We have a great relationship, and I am proud that my parents are also my friends.
You should have seen the look on their faces when I asked my dad to be my best man. It was a great thing, and I meant it. I didn't ask him just because he was my dad, but because he was also my friend.
There will always be some of the parent/child dynamic that will be there, but I am very grateful that I have the relationship with my parents that I do today.
Trust me, it wasn't always this way.
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posted
I think it very much depends more on the individual personalities involved than any general issues with parent/child roles. I think parents and their adult children can have a peer relationship but like any other relationships, that can only happen successfully if the personalities of all parties are compatible with such a relationship.
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posted
Rivka speaks for me in this thread. My husband had this issue with his mother, after his father's death she began to get involved in relationships that were, to our eyes, inappropriate, and she would call and give my husband details about her physical involvement with new men and how it compared to his father.
It was very distressing for him because he was busy trying to mourn his dad, and that type of conversation is completely inappropriate. I totally agree with the fact that this is not a reciprocal relationship. There will always be a parent/child dynamic, even when you're an adult and are close to your parents. My mom and I get along famously, we're very close, but she is still my mother, not my friend. While she acts in the friend role much of the time, there are times when I'd rather talk to a friend, without the additional aspect of that friend also being my mother involved.
I think you should try to lovingly make your boundaries and comfort level clear, and communicate to your mother that while you love and support her, you would rather not discuss these issues with her. It will be difficult to get her to understand (and it sounds like you've tried with limited success) but there is no obligation under the parent/child relationship for you to be exposed to stuff you would really rather not talk about at this point.
quote:Originally posted by Belle: she would call and give my husband details about her physical involvement with new men and how it compared to his father.
quote:Originally posted by Belle: I totally agree with the fact that this is not a reciprocal relationship. There will always be a parent/child dynamic, even when you're an adult and are close to your parents. My mom and I get along famously, we're very close, but she is still my mother, not my friend.
posted
Leonide, I think you might make good use of a "wall of nice": putting up nice remarks to keep your mother from getting to you. This gives an idea what I mean (w/o knowing what your mother is like):
M: If you loved me, you'd listen. L: That's an interesting idea. I do love you, but I'm not sure that means I'll listen. Would you like some tea? M: I don't care about tea. I care about you. I wish you cared about me. You've been trying to poison my marriage, and spreading rumors about me. A good child wouldn't do those things! L: That's not the way I remember it, but OK. Listen, I have to put some clothes in the washer. Please make yourself comfortable.
This distances you from her some but that might not be a bad thing.
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posted
Thanks, everyone, for their viewpoints and advice i think at this point, I'm going to wait a few days to give her time to cool down and hopefully find some perspective, before calling and trying to work this out with her.
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posted
So this may be a side-note, but can you be "close to someone" without having a relationship where your comfortable sharing personal items with them, or is that the definition of "close"?
posted
I guess everyone has their own definition of close. I was mainly concerned with there being a societal "bottom-line" with what you should and should not share with a parent/child. Plenty of people are saying that they have close, open relationships with their parents...I wonder where the point is reached where the relationship can no longer be called "parent/child" and instead becomes "friend/friend."
Is there a base definition? Not officially. Should there be? I'm not sure. I feel like I will always "love" my mother, my sister, and my father, but there are things I will never share with any of them, things I will keep from them. I'm a pretty open person generally, though, there's nothing I've done or thought that I wouldn't share with them, if prompted. So i guess it's more lack of closeness by omission, rather than actively shutting myself off from them. And also feeling like there are standards of parent/child relationships I'd like to maintain, such as not detailing graphically my romantic relationships, etc.
Can you be close to someone with sharing personal things with them? I'd argue you can, as long as your definition of "close" reads something like "comfortable, friendly, and engaged" as opposed to "open, honest, and intimate." I can feel close to a friend whom I share a love of movies and sci-fi novels with, but if I'm not sharing my deeper thoughts about life, the universe, and everything with them, then maybe I'm not meeting the accepted definition of "close." Or maybe "close" is a good word, and for that latter example I should use the word "intimate."
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However, our relationship works ONLY as friends. Honestly, it doesn't work as parent/child at all. I'm essentially without family as safety net and place to go for guaranteed, unconditional affection (except for baby brother and aunts). After Mom died, my dad and I didn't get along at all until I gave up on hoping for a parent and accepted my dad as only a friend. As friends, we're pretty cool - we get along great.
However, there are a few subjects that are verboten. After my dad remarried, he, very unfortunately, decided to make sure she felt wanted by criticizing my mom. I was too broken at the time to realize I could and should object. It's still a sensitive subject for me, and if the goal was to get me to like my stepmother it completely backfired. So, anything critical about my mom is utterly, completely out. My looks are out - I have to reinforce this every once in a while, but my dad gets to compliment me on how pretty I am and that's it.
Having said that, I do listen to my dad talk about his marriage. Not often, but sometimes. As long as he leaves out my mother and doesn't get maudlin for longer than about four minutes, I don't mind. That's only possible, however, because I have basically no relationship at all with my stepmother, so it doesn't affect me.
Also, I'm about eight years older than you, I think. This didn't happen until a few years ago.
It is possible that you will become just friends with your Mom. I think it's too early, though - you're still in your early twenties. She needs to still be the Mom.
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posted
What occurs to me while reading this thread is the difference between a general sense of what parent's should be like and a specific sense of what works for a certain person.
I think that, rather than coming at the problem with the attitude of "parent's shouldn't be like this" or "this is inappropriate for a parent/child relationship", you might try, "I am uncomfortable with this because..." or "I love you, but I need you our relationship to be..."
It might be more helpful and less likely to cause resentment. One size does not fit all in relationships. Instead of deciding a specific "size" is the only right size, just talk about what fits you.
posted
But I don't think she *can* be a Mom to me. She met my dad at 18, married him at 23, and had me at 24. Last July she married current husband, after dating him for maybe two years...there was no break in between the dissolution of my parents' marriage, and her seeing this new guy. So she's never NOT been with someone, and I think she's never really found herself, or been happy with herself. Her mom passed away about five months ago, and she had a lot of trauma growing up with poor parenting and some issues with sexual molestation. She's never really healed from any of those things, and I just don't think there's any way she's ever going to be a mom to me again. Friends, maybe. Later. Maybe years down the road later. And I'm sort of pissed off that she'll never be the mom I want or need. Sometimes I feel like I should just do what she wants because I can see how much her past has hurt her, and continues to hurt her, and since I can see it I should be sympathetic and just not get attached, and let her do what she needs to do, give her what she wants. And another part of me wants to just scream "Grow Up Already!"
edit: yes, Kate, I think I see now that that's what's probably best, but I went into this thinking that maybe there were standards a little more universal that I could springboard from. I think now that's probably not the case Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Leonide, it is perfectly valid to ask for what you need in a relationship whether or not it meets a universal standard.
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quote:And I'm sort of pissed off that she'll never be the mom I want or need.
I think...I think this is a very, very mature realization, and the anger is very understandable. I'm sorry. I do know the feeling.
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posted
Yep. There are things I don't talk about with my parents, nut I pretty much don't talk about those things with anyone.
That doesn't make them any less my friends, though. There are things I don't talk about with all my friends, depending on who they are and what my experiences have been with them. I wouldn't talk about fidelity with my friend who cheatd on his wife unless he brought it up, because he might think I was rubbing in how good my marriage is, and I don't talk about going out drinking with my friends who has a drinking problem.
I don't talk sex with anyone other than my spouse, really, because I am not comfortable putting that out there, except in very general terms. I have a sense of what is and is not OK to talk to people about that applies even when they aren't related to me. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Yep. There are things I don't talk about with my parents, nut I pretty much don't talk about those things with anyone.
That doesn't make them any less my friends, though. There are things I don't talk about with all my friends, depending on who they are and what my experiences have been with them. I wouldn't talk about fidelity with my friend who cheatd on his wife unless he brought it up, because he might think I was rubbing in how good my marriage is, and I don't talk about going out drinking with my friends who has a drinking problem.
I don't talk sex with anyone other than my spouse, really, because I am not comfortable putting that out there, except in very general terms. I have a sense of what is and is not OK to talk to people about that applies even when they aren't related to me. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Leonide, google the poem 'This Be the Verse', by Philip Larkin. I don't want to link to it from Hatrack because the f-word is used in the very first sentence.
It's slightly gloomy, but a good poem for when you realize your parents can never be the parents you want them to be.
posted
I can't really talk to my parents about anything deep, let alone come to them with my problems. Mostly I just stick to cheerful surface things because if I talk about the stuff that's really bothering me, it would probably hurt them. Or cause them to yell at me and lecture which I hate deeply.
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Parent/child relationships inherently flow more in one direction than in the other, and that's okay. She can find another confidant, but you don't get to find other parents.
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