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Author Topic: Who witnessed Creation?
Glenn Arnold
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I'm thinking in terms of literature, where the narrator of a story is either first person, omnicient, or limited omnicient.

It seems to me that Genesis is written from the omnicient view. As I understand it, Moses is credited with writing the book of Genesis, but by definition, he can't have witnessed creation. So what does biblical history say about how the story was told to Moses. Is there a point in the bible where God sits him down and tells him the story? If not, then where did this tradition come from?

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Nathan2006
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Digoree and Polly from 'The Magician's Nephew'.
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Puffy Treat
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In LDS scripture (The Pearl of Great Price) God does just that...reveals the story of creation and the history of the world to Moses, while making it clear He's done this before with previous prophets. Though, that's perhaps not a source you're interested in.
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rollainm
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I think that's exactly the kind of information Glenn was looking for. What I'd like to know at this point is if Mormonism is the only faith to provide such an explanation.
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adfectio
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In most Christian denominations this is the case. God presented the story to Moses, who then wrote it down.
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Lisa
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God dictated it, word for word.
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Geekazoid99
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The Jewish view is that during the period of 40 days when Moses was on to of mount Sinai, God told Moses what happened in the entire book of Genesis. Moses later wrote it all down.
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Javert
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As a kid I was always much more curious about who god was talking to.

He said "Let there be light", but if there was no one else there, did he really have to say it out loud?

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Saephon
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Many brilliant people tend to talk to themselves while alone in their work. I know from experience [Wink]
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MightyCow
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How did God say anything in the void of space?
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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
How did God say anything in the void of space?

There was no void of space before God created it.
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Tatiana
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We are a huge simulation running on God's computer, so instead of actually speaking the words into our space, he typed them in on his ancient clickedy keyboard "100.LET.THERE.BE.LIGHT". In God's programming language, that formats a new universe data structure and reserves space for all the variables needed. The first day is when he input all the physical constants like G, Planck's constant, and the charge on the electron. It's described in Genesis sort of metaphorically from that point.

As for witnesses, it's all in the operating system log under the first day, second day, etc. Everything that happens anywhere anytime in our universe is in the log, so that's why God is outside time. He can look at the log file for the entire run for any time in the past and future. That's how he knows what we're going to do. We have to be made to forget that we even exist on the astral plane outside the computer (the computer is our universe) in order to be able to live for a time inside this spacetime continuum.

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Itsame
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Tatiana, that was brilliant.
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TomDavidson
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Tatiana, are you saying that God doesn't exist in our space?
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MightyCow
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So the wolds really IS the Matrix, and God doesn't comment his code well to boot.
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rollainm
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So does that mean I can dodge bullets?
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Glenn Arnold
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quote:
In LDS scripture (The Pearl of Great Price) God does just that...reveals the story of creation and the history of the world to Moses, while making it clear He's done this before with previous prophets. Though, that's perhaps not a source you're interested in.
It is, actually. What I'm looking for is an actual source, according to each of the interested parties. So for LDS I can read The Pearl of Great Price. Is there a chapter and verse that refers to it? Or is that the whole Pearl? Is it in the Book of Mormon? Or separate?

quote:
God dictated it, word for word.
I was under the impression only the Qu'ran made such a claim.

quote:
The Jewish view is that during the period of 40 days when Moses was on to of mount Sinai, God told Moses what happened in the entire book of Genesis. Moses later wrote it all down.
OK, but is this recorded in the bible? Did Moses say "I'm writing this down according to what God told me," or is it just part of the oral tradition? Again, chapter and verse would be helpful, if you've got it.
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maui babe
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The Pearl of Great Price is a book of scripture separate from the Book of Mormon. I'm getting ready for church, so I don't have a lot of time, but I think what you're looking for starts in Moses, chapter one.
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advice for robots
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Moses chapter 2 (see maui babe's link above) seems to be what you're looking for:

1 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I reveal unto you concerning this heaven, and this earth; write the words which I speak. I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things; yea, in the beginning I created the heaven, and the earth upon which thou standest.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and I caused darkness to come up upon the face of the deep; and my Spirit moved upon the face of the water; for I am God.
3 And I, God, said: Let there be light; and there was light....

The book of Abraham, also in the Pearl of Great Price, contains an account of the creation. Go to Abraham chapter 4. This is God revealing things directly to Abraham.

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Samprimary
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Suddenly, a power surge causes the apocalypse. Behold; the Four Horsemen of the Disk Head Crash descend upon us; three sequential plagues (spyware, then adware, then malware), and the skies run red with lost data.
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Occasional
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I know this has been answered by mostly Mormons, but there is perhaps one more LDS concept to add. There is a second answer to "who witnessed the Creation" that can also be found in the Pearl of Great Price, among other LDS sources. We ALL did as spirits before coming here to earth. There is even hints that we all participated in the creative process.

Of course, the question itself was about how was it written down as scripture? Although as a Mormon I believe Moses was shown the Creation, I don't believe Genesis (or much of any Scripture) was dictated by God. It was Moses writing down his visionary experiences in his own words, using the first person divine as emphasis.

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Dan_raven
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quote:
Tatiana, are you saying that God doesn't exist in our space?
No Tom. She's saying that God exists in "MySpace"
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Tatiana
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God left himself plenty of ways to influence things as they unfold on the simulation. Sort of like back-doors or something that a programmer might leave in an application, only different.

See, there are these continual random quantum fluctuations in the vacuum of spacetime. We all know that. Also, the butterfly effect insures that macroscopic events can be influenced by tiny differences in initial conditions, e.g. the aforementioned quantum fluctuations that pervade all of space and time. God can input, nanosecond by nanosecond, different quantum fluctuations to nudge the universe (via the butterfly effect) into configurations he likes. All he has to do is be sure they work out to be statistically random over the large scale, oh, and he has to know enough about physics to be able to have an idea what inputs are likely to cause his desired outcomes.

It has been postulated by some scientists, see Roger Penrose for example, that the brain is actually a quantum computing device. In any case, it's a physical structure which is specially suitable for turning tiny microscopic phenomena into large scale events. An inventor with a great idea can change the world, for instance. Dreams, visions, aha insights, all can bubble up from tiny neural events in a single brain into great edifices, movements, works of art, discoveries, philosophical schools of thought, etc.

God has plenty of ways of adding nuances and brilliance to this great work of art we call the universe of spacetime. We are his collaborators, learning by imitating him, and by doing. We are the ghosts in the machine. [Smile]

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