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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Writer's Strike Shoots Jack Bauer In Thigh (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Writer's Strike Shoots Jack Bauer In Thigh
docmagik
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It looks like Jack is the latest victim of the Writer's Strike--the show will not be aired until the strike ends and they get production back on track.

And just when it looked like it might be back to good:

http://www.24trailer.com/

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the_Somalian
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A lot of shows have been victimized. But perhaps some good can come out of this:

quote:
NBC is considering airing the original British version of The Office in place of the American version.[24]
woot woot!
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the_Somalian
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But it's really mostly tragic. Regarding Scrubs...

quote:
12 of 18 ordered episodes completed. Series Finale episode could possibly not be produced or broadcast;[ were this to happen, series creator Bill Lawrence will try and release a straight-to-DVD final episode.

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Shanna
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I heard about Scrubs the other day and that's the show that had me most upset. I mean, its the LAST season. Lawrence promised fans a really satisfying ending and though the studio has treated the small but devoted fanbase not too badly by most standards, I really do worry that the show may never get the end it deserves.

I'd be okay if the last episodes were just released on the season dvd, but I'm terrified they may never even be filmed.

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Ron Lambert
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But it is being compensated for the writing of scripts for DVDs and Internet media that is what screenwriters are striking about.
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Lyrhawn
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Is there a full list anywhere of all the shows that will be effected by the strike should it continue?
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Elmer's Glue
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Almost all shows will be effected should the strike continue. It is easier to have a list of non-affected shows.
I know that South Park won't be affected; non union.

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Strider
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Lost is being cut down to half a season. And this is after already going with a shortened 16 episode season.

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=39069

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Shanna
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I can't imagine that the studio big-wigs are stupid enough to think that this can end any other way than the writers getting their demands met.

No one is going to benefit until this thing comes to an end.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanna:
I can't imagine that the studio big-wigs are stupid enough to think that this can end any other way than the writers getting their demands met.

No one is going to benefit until this thing comes to an end.

I think a lot of the big wigs think this will end with a lot of writers dropping out of the union in favor of actually getting paychecks.
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Elmer's Glue
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I hate unions, strikes are terrible.
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Telperion the Silver
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We should instead hate the suits of the corporations who take in the vast majority of the profits of those artists who are the ones to actually create what we love.

Long live unions! Down with robber barons. [Smile]

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rollainm
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:
Originally posted by Shanna:
I can't imagine that the studio big-wigs are stupid enough to think that this can end any other way than the writers getting their demands met.

No one is going to benefit until this thing comes to an end.

I think a lot of the big wigs think this will end with a lot of writers dropping out of the union in favor of actually getting paychecks.
The majority of the writers that "matter" have enough money to make it worth the wait.
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erosomniac
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quote:
The majority of the writers that "matter" have enough money to make it worth the wait.
Not necessarily, according to the celebrity interviews I've been seeing. Jay Leno, for example, estimates that many of his writers make an average of 30k.
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rollainm
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Hmm...well alrighty then...
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0Megabyte
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Strikes may be terrible, but I for one would rather the producers give the people who are actually most important to the creation of television and movies, the writers, more for their vital service.

In Hollywood, it's well known that writers are despised and walked all over. People don't respect them, or pay them enough most of the time, even with how important they are. They trample all over the work of the writers, and change their work in a manner thye'd never dream of doing to directors.

The reason so many movies suck? Well, a lot of them started as great scripts. But then the producers, ever contemptful of the skill of writers, change things willy-nilly. It's the sort of insanity that would result if financers were in charge of the designers and engineers of bridges and skyscrapers, and changed the design almost randomly based on their whims. It'd be no surprise if the buildings and bridges fell down, and it's not surprise the movies and shows made under an equally insane system suck.

So at least pay the damn writers a little more, if you're going to suck their souls out and trample their art anyway.

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Lisa
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They can air good cable shows that hadn't hit the big networks yet. The 4400. Burn Notice. BSG. Psych. Monk.
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Scott R
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quote:
it's well known that writers are despised and walked all over.
I've heard this is true of movies; I've heard that it is not true of television.

I don't really know if any of it is truly true.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Telperion the Silver:
We should instead hate the suits of the corporations who take in the vast majority of the profits of those artists who are the ones to actually create what we love.

Long live unions! Down with robber barons. [Smile]

You mean the suits who actually spend their own money in advance in order to give writers a chance to actually write something people see? Yes yes, who needs them, we should just let writers write and somehow magically those writings will become TV shows and movies.
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MrSquicky
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quote:
Jay Leno, for example, estimates that many of his writers make an average of 30k.
Considering the quality they put out, I think they are overpaid.
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steven
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I heard that, if you were a writer on the shows "Friends", once you hit age 30, you were pretty much done. The producers assumed that you could no longer write a joke that their target audience would find funny.
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Blayne Bradley
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What!? Crap that only gives me a remaining 10 years of work!
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Scott R
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:smug snickering:
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brojack17
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I am not pro-union. My family had a bad experience with them and I have not been for them since. I think union's were great and needed at one time, but today they are only effective in driving up the cost of manufacturing and they make it difficult to get rid of ineffective employees.

That is, until the writers strike started. I did not realize writers made so little compared to actors, directors, and producers. I don't see this as the writers trying to cash in, I think they are just trying to get their fair share. I support the writers in this situation.

That said, I still do not particularly like union's. My father was still burned by a union that was happy to take his dues for years but told him he wasn't "really" a bricklayer when he was laid off in the '80's. I have still had dealings with lazy union workers that knew it was virtually impossible to for them to be fired. I no longer think that all union's are useless, just most of them.

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Dan_raven
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Today writing class, we will learn the word Irony.

Tony is a writer.

He writes for the show Scrubs.

He has a wonderful script for the series finale of Scrubs.

He goes on strike because while he gets paid for the work that is put out on Television, he gets nothing on the DVD and Internet sales of that work.

He needs that extra money to pay off his overpriced California home which due to recent land speculation mistakes, has actually dropped considerably in value.

To be ready to make his money Tony is using the extra time he has while on strike to polish his amazing script for the series finale of Scrubs.

The Strike has caused the TV Show Scrubs to scrub their wonderful series finale from being aired on TV.

Instead it will go directly to DVD, and Internet Downloads.

For which Tony will not make a penny.

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Saephon
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While I do side with brojack that MY personal experiences with unions have been pretty crummy (workers who had no motivation because they knew they were getting paid tons, and couldn't be fired), I do support the writer's strike.

Hollywood and the television industry have kind of angered me for a long time, and I know that the real quality film I watch does not come from a producer, but from a writer who probably still doesn't get enough for it.

Now if only the music industry would reform to give newer artists a better chance at making a living, maybe popular American entertainment wouldn't suck.

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Javert Hugo
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I completely support the writers' strike. For those who think they are whining - does "nothing" sound like a fair wage to you?

It may be a great job, but since writers do not live on rainbows and fairy dust, it seems only fair to pay them.

That argument works the other way as well - thanks to the stories the writers produce, the executives get to play Hollywood mogul and sleep with starlets.

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brojack17
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JH,
Didn't a writer get the girl in King Kong and not the producer? I'll bet a writer wrote that. I'm surprised the producer didn't change it to where Jack Black got the girl. [Wink]

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fugu13
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WIthout dealing with the justice of the strike or not, it might be better to discuss what they are actually fighting against. They are not fighting against being paid nothing, they are fighting to receiving royalties for additional forms of distribution that they currently are not paid royalties for; they already receive both salary and royalties for those works in some forms of distribution.
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Threads
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quote:
Originally posted by brojack17:
I am not pro-union. My family had a bad experience with them and I have not been for them since. I think union's were great and needed at one time, but today they are only effective in driving up the cost of manufacturing and they make it difficult to get rid of ineffective employees.

That is, until the writers strike started. I did not realize writers made so little compared to actors, directors, and producers. I don't see this as the writers trying to cash in, I think they are just trying to get their fair share. I support the writers in this situation.

That said, I still do not particularly like union's. My father was still burned by a union that was happy to take his dues for years but told him he wasn't "really" a bricklayer when he was laid off in the '80's. I have still had dealings with lazy union workers that knew it was virtually impossible to for them to be fired. I no longer think that all union's are useless, just most of them.

Another important question to consider is do you like corporations? Corporations are no more free market than unions.
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Zalmoxis
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quote:
You mean the suits who actually spend their own money in advance in order to give writers a chance to actually write something people see?
Do you mean the suits who are actually spending shareholder money? The same suits who have feasted off of DVD sales and ignored digital distribution even though all signs pointed that way? The same suits who indulge in all sorts of Byzantine financial moves to make sure that even those producers, writers, actors and directors who are powerful enough to get a cut of a creative product get as little as possible or even nothing?
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Javert Hugo
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quote:
I'm surprised the producer didn't change it to where Jack Black got the girl.
a la Moulin Rouge
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Dagonee
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quote:
Another important question to consider is do you like corporations? Corporations are no more free market than unions.
How so? (BTW, brojack didn't say anything about unions being not free market.)
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brojack17
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I don't really get the correlation. I don't really care much for big corporations either, but just like union's, they are here to stay. Corporations did not have an immediate impact on my father's job when I was a kid.
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Javert Hugo
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"Unions", dang it.

The plural is "unions." "Union's" is possessive.

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brojack17
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Can you tell I am not a writer? [Smile]

Sorry about that.

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Selran
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_raven:
To be ready to make his money Tony is using the extra time he has while on strike to polish his amazing script for the series finale of Scrubs.

The guild does not allow the writers to do that.
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Dan_raven
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The goal of a corporation in not a free market.

The goal of a corporation is to make a profit.

The bigger the profit the more that goal is met.

The elimination of the competition, monopolizing the market, and cheating the "free" market in any way possible are tactics that corporations use. Usually those are legal tactics, but not always so.

Forming industry organizations to lobby for perks, bailouts, and industy tax breaks is not Free Market tactics.

Forming official and unofficial industry cartels to set prices high and keep costs low--limiting competition for supplies and sales--is not Free markets.

Blackballing, and punishing people who report crimminal activity that their company does is not Free Market.

Lieing and hiding and covering up any and all information that consumers need to make an informed choice of a purchase is not Free Market.

Drafting large import fees on foreign competitors goods is not a Free Market activity.

Drafting large numbers of desparate illegal aliens into your workforce to keep the cost of labor down is not a Free Market activity.

No. I am all for Free Markets solving many of our problems, as long as we have enough honorable and well paid referees not in the pay of the players, but in the service of keeping that Market truly Free.

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Leonide
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quote:
Lost is being cut down to half a season
[Angst]
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Threads
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:
Another important question to consider is do you like corporations? Corporations are no more free market than unions.
How so? (BTW, brojack didn't say anything about unions being not free market.)
Corporations, as they exist in the United States, basically absorb all of the legal liabilities of their partners. They act as a shield and allow people to create products without responsibility for any negative consequences that result from their products. Corporations can exist in a true free market however they would merely be agreements among people to work together. Conceptually, a corporation in a free market is still treated like an individual. The people who create such a corporation would have to decide on how to distribute liabilities. The one thing they could not do, which current corporations in the US can do, is eliminate liabilities.

EDIT: Btw, I'm mainly talking about publicly traded corporations.

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brojack17
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I guess I get it now. You think that since I am anti-union, then I have to be pro-corporation. That is not necessarily the case.

Here is the story. When I was five, I remember my dad explaining to my mom that the employees at his company were approached by a bricklayers union. They decided to join and everything was fine for awhile. The union took my dads dues and promised to be there if he was ever laid off. When oil went bust in the early '80's, my dad and his co-workers were laid off when the company closed down. They went to their union and asked for help. The union said they were not "really" bricklayers since they worked installing refractory and not laying brick in the traditional sense. My dad and all those other guys were left to fend for themselves. This was my first experience with a union. Not a very happy experience.

The other came when I got my first drafting job. It was at an Architectural Millwork company that had union carpenters. Since I was not a carpenter and the companies training was lacking, I had many drawings with errors on them. In an attempt to better myself, and in turn the companies product, I volunteered to work on the evening shift as a carpenter to learn how stuff "should" go together. I had a carpenter that was willing to take me under his wing and show me the ropes. This was shot down immediately. I was told this was basically an insult to the union and from that point on, the union reps nitpicked my work and filed grievances against me whenever possible. All I wanted to do was learn how to build things out of wood better.

The UAW did a great thing for the auto-workers back in the day and I agree the writers should get royalties from their product on DVD and the Internet (everyone else does), but I have had two bad experiences with unions in the past. I would hope you would understand why I don't really care for them.

Edit: spelling

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Threads
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Sorry for the confusion brojack. My initial goal was to point out that unions are a necessary evil in the current market, however I realize that my comments didn't express that idea at all.
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brojack17
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No problem. I see they are a necessary evil and agree that corporations are one also. My initial post stated that although I fundamentally disagree with unions (for personal reasons), I see why the writers are striking and support them.

No offense was taken by your posts.

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brojack17
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And I just realized you had the first post about corporations, Dan had the other. I didn't pay attention to the names and assumed both came from the same person.
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Threads:
quote:
Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:
Another important question to consider is do you like corporations? Corporations are no more free market than unions.
How so? (BTW, brojack didn't say anything about unions being not free market.)
Corporations, as they exist in the United States, basically absorb all of the legal liabilities of their partners. They act as a shield and allow people to create products without responsibility for any negative consequences that result from their products. Corporations can exist in a true free market however they would merely be agreements among people to work together. Conceptually, a corporation in a free market is still treated like an individual. The people who create such a corporation would have to decide on how to distribute liabilities.
I'm not sure I agree. How can it be possible to distribute liabilities? Individuals are responsible for their own actions.

If you were to sign a piece of paper assuming liability for my actions, and I were to rob a bank, would it be okay to send you to jail? The idea that anyone can take away anyone else's responsibility for their actions and the consequences of those actions is part and parcel with the ideology that opposes free markets.

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Threads
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If you have a group of 10 people then you can assign different tasks to different people which effectively distributes the liabilities. Rather than each individual sharing responsibility for everything (debt, bad products, etc.), the workload can be distributed (not on paper but literally distributed).
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Dagonee
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quote:
Corporations, as they exist in the United States, basically absorb all of the legal liabilities of their partners. They act as a shield and allow people to create products without responsibility for any negative consequences that result from their products.
This is not accurate. I've posted something on this in another thread recently, but corporations do not shield stockholders from liability for their acts.

They shield stockholders (past the amount of their investment) from the acts of others that give rise to liability.

Anyone who contracts with a corporation knows that this limit on liability exists. They are free to either refrain from doing business with such a corporation or to negotiate the contract such that the stockholders agree to be liable beyond the limit of their investment. I have been on both ends of such contracts (waiving my own protection from liability and forcing the other side to waive theirs) many times. It's extremely common.

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miamiandy
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike#Impact_on_shows

is a nice list of everything affected. Currently.

Apparently I've read that it is likely going to be a very long strike. Also, if they don't settle june-july 2008 the Screen Actors Guild and Directors Guild of America will likely join the writer's guild and then this'll be really fun.

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Lyrhawn
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I wouldn't mind a soft reboot of Hollywood. I think this could be a good thing all around.

Also, I'm almost positive that writers do get SOME money from DVD sales currently. I think the last deal gave them 4 cents per DVD, and they want it raised to 8 cents. But they don't get anything from online distrubuted content.

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SC Carver
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Wow, Are the networks really prepared to show reruns for the next year? They better be careful or all of may find something better to do (hatrack) and not come back. Haven't they learned anything from the cigarette industry, just keep them smoking. If they stop they may not come back.

I know the big movie companies are scrambling to finish up as many movies as possible before the strike. It would take a lot longer to feel the effects in the movie industry since they work so far out. You wouldn't really notice anything missing for at least a year, or longer.

Who knows maybe people will, God forbid, get off the couch spend time with friends and family, or doing healthy things like playing sports and exercising, or improve themselves by taking classes, starting a hobby or even just reading. Actually I am hoping the writers will stay on strike for a long, long time so I will be forced to break my addiction.

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