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Author Topic: Ridiculous...
Little_Doctor
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Link


quote:
Jamie Lynn Spears, Britney's sister, is pregnant, the 16-year-old told OK! magazine. The father is her longtime boyfriend, Casey Aldridge, she said. "It was a shock for both of us, so unexpected," Jamie Lynn Spears, who is 12 weeks along in her pregnancy, told the magazine for its new issue, which hits stands this week.
What's going on with this family?
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MattP
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Teen pregnancy is not exactly an uncommon occurrence. It was bound to happen to someone famous(ish) eventually.
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Little_Doctor
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True, I'm not trying to bash her decision. It's just that it happened in this particular family, after all the controversy surrounding Britney and her children. They don't have a good track record for parenting so far.
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breyerchic04
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I heard about this last night. Then this morning in our newspaper there was an interview with her from the AP, obviously printed before this story broke. She said she has a lot of "guy" friends but no serious boyfriend, and plans to attend LSU, didn't know what she wanted to major in.
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brojack17
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Her mom is supposed to write a parenting book.
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Lisa
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The Spears' mother was about to put out a book on parenting. It's been postponed, indefinitely.

Heh.

(Edit: or what brojack said.)

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rivka
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That's silly. It'll sell millions -- they just need to retitle it.
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Chris Bridges
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Better: it was supposed to be a book on parenting from a Christian publisher.

So... what are the California laws on statutory rape, anyway? I haven't seen that brought up yet.

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pooka
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quote:
True, I'm not trying to bash her decision.
I'm glad that this announcement evidently means she's not having an abortion, but I hope for her sake, just starting her life out, that she'll let the baby be adopted.
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fugu13
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http://www.moraloutrage.net/staticpages/index.php?page=California

If he's within three years, he's committed a misdemeanor. If he's under 18, she's committed a misdemeanor. If he's over 18, he's also liable for some civil penalties.

If he's over 3 years older than her, the crime gets worse.

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Ron Lambert
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If Jamie Lynn got pregnant while only 16, in most states that would mean whoever did it to her is automatically guilty of statutory rape. It may not have been wise for her to name the father. He may wind up having to spend the rest of his life in Europe, where the laws are more lenient, and he wouldn't be thrown in jail as a sex offender.
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MattP
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quote:
I'm glad that this announcement evidently means she's not having an abortion, but I hope for her sake, just starting her life out, that she'll let the baby be adopted.
I'm not confident enough that giving it up for adoption would be the best thing for her and her child to hope for that. Presumably she and her family are aware of that option and will only do that if they feel like it's the right choice for them.
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pooka
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He's nineteen.
I had a link but it didn't paste.

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Saephon
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Is there a good book out there explaining why role models like these shouldn't be in our media 24/7? I'd much rather read that [Razz]
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El JT de Spang
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Are we sure it's the California laws he's subject to? She's from Louisiana, which, since she says she's been dating him since high school, I presume means he is to.

Although I suppose she could've gone to high school on the West Coast. I know Britney went to high school in Kentwood (before dropping out and making a pile of money and a truckload of bad decisions).

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fugu13
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I'm pretty sure the location it occurred is what matters. And it looks like he would be in trouble in Louisiana, too: http://www.moraloutrage.net/staticpages/index.php?page=Louisiana
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El JT de Spang
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Oh yeah, if he's 19 he's definitely violated the statutory statutes in Louisiana, too.

You'd think someone would have brought that up to them before they went public with the whole thing.

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El JT de Spang
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After looking a little, I'm curious about 4 things:

1) What the exact age difference between the two of them is,
2) Whether or not the guy was 18 when she got pregnant,
3) What state conception took place in, and
4) Whether that state has the rules (law, statute, guideline?) that the family has to press charges in a situation like this?

Dags?

(also, would the thread starter mind changing the thread title to give some indication of what it's about?)

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Dagonee
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3) The state in which each sex act occurred will determine which state's law apply. It does not have to be the sex act that led to conception that is prosecuted, although evidence of the other acts will be hard to come by.

4) Technically, a prosecutor can bring a charge without the family pressing charges. Some people have to report suspected child abuse of which they are aware - teachers, doctors, etc.

Here, though, it's not immediately obvious that abuse has occurred based only on the fact of pregnancy if the state does not consider teen-teen sex to be abuse. I don't know if her announcing the father or age of the father would then trigger the duty to report.

I no little about the duty to report except that it exists. Lawyers have reporting obligations of a very different kind. Any teacher or medical professional will know more of the details.

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Chris Bridges
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I should state, having brought it up, that I'm not calling for the father to be prosecuted. But in any story like this where the people involved were not famous, the words "underage" and "statutory rape" would be in the first few paragraphs.

Apparently underage girls are allowed to legally consent, given sufficient fame.

Edited to add: I also don't know how old the father was at the time. If he was 18, he'd be within the 2-year spread most states have.

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ketchupqueen
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Well, I can tell you that in CA, unless the minor or a parent complains, that law is almost never enforced. I don't know about LA.
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Tara
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[ROFL]


Do I feel bad for laughing? Well, maybe. A bit.


Naaaah.

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0Megabyte
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You know, if the Virgin Mary, er... immaculately concieved, today, God would be up on charges of statutory rape.
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The White Whale
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0Megabyte, that would make a good short story. You should write it. I would read it.
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Dagonee
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"Immaculate conception" does not refer to the conception of Jesus.
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0Megabyte
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Dag - who cares? You obviously know exactly what I meant.

And yes, White Whale. I should. In fact, I think I'll give that one priority over the naughty stories I'm writing for my friends, and the evolution stuff I'm writing for not-nearly-so-close-or-female friends. xD

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Noemon
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Well, I do. Just because people make a mistake a lot doesn't make it less of a mistake.
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Dagonee
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quote:
Dag - who cares? You obviously know exactly what I meant.
I bet there are quite a few people interested in that little tidbit of information. And, if you want to write a story on it, you might want to be one of those people.
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0Megabyte
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Noemon: I was just getting a point across. It's not a big deal. Besides, I fairly doubt God cares as much about what I call it as you do.
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0Megabyte
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Dag - It's not like I'm going to write it without doing a bit of research first.

It's just a phrase. That's all.

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Dagonee
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What point were you getting across, exactly?

Did it hurt you somehow to have additional information about Catholic terminology?

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Noemon
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quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Noemon: I was just getting a point across. It's not a big deal.

It's not a big deal, but it was an inaccuracy.

quote:
Besides, I fairly doubt God cares as much about what I call it as you do.
Referencing the opinion of a deity neither of us believe in is such a compelling argument.

[Edited to remove some of the snark. Sorry about that--it's been a long day]

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scholar
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Dag- I found that very interesing. I learned something new today, which is always a good thing. Of course, I did have to go look it up to see why you objected, which took work...
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James Tiberius Kirk
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Sad that this is the main story on CNN.com right now.

--j_k

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brojack17
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j_k,

Britney didn't flash her goodies or run over a pappo today, so they had to cover something.

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Launchywiggin
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I wish someone had just said "Immaculate conception refers to the conception of the Virgin Mary by her parents through normal sexual intercourse, and not Jesus' conception".
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scholar
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I thought about saying that, but dangit, if I had to go to wikipedia, so should everyone else. [Smile]
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Launchywiggin
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Not any more. I took the bullet for the rest of them.
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Ron Lambert
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Good point, Launchywiggin. And note that only Catholics believe in Immaculate Conception. The doctrine arose as an attempt to explain how Jesus could have a sinless human nature, since Catholic theology teaches that Jesus took the human nature of Adam before he sinned, and the question arises how He could have obtained that from Mary. So Catholic theologians had to provide a way for Mary to have a sinless human nature. I am a post-lapsarian myself, which bypasses those difficulties, but it would be too far off topic to go into a discussion of that.

What the Holy Spirit did to Mary, as described in Luke chapter one, would more properly be termed "artificial insemination," or perhaps "genetic engineering." It was done with her consent.

I don't think there are any laws anywhere which address the artificial insemination of an underage girl. And we do not know how old Mary actually was when she became pregnant, though she was old enough to be betrothed (engaged).

[ December 20, 2007, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
I don't think there are any laws anywhere which address the artificial insemination of an underage girl.
Yeah there are. Child abuse laws, because it is considered dangerous to get a child pregnant.

But there weren't then. And technically I think "artificial insemination" is the wrong term.

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pH
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
in most states that would mean whoever did it to her

This wording rubs me the wrong way, as I'm assuming she did have some choice in the matter.

-pH

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PSI Teleport
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And yet, legally, it WAS done to her. That's why it's statutory rape. She's not old enough to consent.
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steven
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In some states, the age of consent is 16.
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PSI Teleport
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I didn't think we were talking about one of those states.
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steven
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I am only aware of my own state's laws, and federal laws. It's unclear to me which state's laws would apply in this case, or exactly what age she was when she got pregnant.
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Chris Bridges
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She turned 16 in April. Dunno yet when the father turned 19.
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adfectio
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In Ohio (my favorite state:D) the age of consent, if I'm reading it right, is 13, as long as the other person is under the age of 18.

Ohio:
quote:
Sexual assault for a person age 18 to engage in sexual conduct with a minor if the actor knows that the minor is between ages 13 and 16
But then the states in question for this case

California:
quote:
Anyone who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a person under age 18 and the actor is not more than three years older or three years younger, is guilty of a misdemeanor

Anyone who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a person under age 18 who is more than three years younger than the actor is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony

Any person 21 years of age or older who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is under 16 years of age is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony

and then Louisiana:
quote:
Felony carnal knowledge of a juvenile is sexual intercourse with consent between (1) someone age 19 or older and someone between age 12 and 17 or (2) someone age 17 or older and someone between age 12 and 15.

Misdemeanor carnal knowledge of a juvenile is sexual intercourse with consent between someone age 17 to 19 and someone age 15 to 17 when the difference in their ages is greater than two years.

and just in case you guys are wondering where I got this. Link.
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El JT de Spang
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quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
And yet, legally, it WAS done to her. That's why it's statutory rape. She's not old enough to consent.

Depending on what state they were in and how old they both were at the time, there's a chance it's not statutory rape. In fact, there's a pretty good chance it's a misdemeanor.
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Ron Lambert
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Woody Allen (I think it was him) wouldn't have been avoiding entering the US until the statute of limitations ran out if it were just a misdemeanor.

Anyway, I wonder what we would learn if we compared various states' statutes about unlawful sex with a minor with states that allow people to marry their first cousin. [Smile]

(Cue the dueling banjos.)

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Launchywiggin
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Just the thought that we could refer to the conception of Jesus Christ as "artificial insemination" tickles my mind. What if Mary's angel was just a human from the future who travels back in time to artificially inseminate her?
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