posted
Before I pay someone to come out to my house, I wanted to ask for your help in resolving my home network problem.
I have 2 Dell Dimension desktops (a 2000 & 3000 series, both running Windows XP). Each has one built-in ethernet port. I purchased an extra ethernet card and installed it in computer A. I have my DSL connected to computer A and I'm trying to share that internet connection with computer B.
I connected computer A & B using the new ethernet card in A and the built-in port in B, then followed the instructions in Network Setup Wizard.
No dice.
BOTH computers keep telling me that the network cable is unplugged. (the second port on A and the only port on B; and before you ask...Yes, the cables were all plugged in! And before you tell me to try a different cable, I tried 4 different cables.)
I tried switching my DSL to the second port on A but I have the same "network cable unplugged" problem (I had no trouble accessing the internet through the new network card so I assume it's working OK. Device Manager also says it's working OK)
Frustrated, I removed the network card from A and installed it in B. I connected my DSL to B (both ports, eventually) and still have the same problem.
The only network port that Windows recognizes as "plugged in" is the one with my DSL in it.
What am I doing wrong?
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Network Setup Wizard gives several set up options. The "router" option was the option it didn't recommend.
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
You have to have a cross over cable in order to connect two network cards together. It's a regular networking cable but the transmission and receive wires are switched on one side. The two network cards can't communicate unless you have that configuration.
Otherwise, the only way you'll get this particular method to work is to use a networking switch/hub.
That said, I really don't recommend this particular method for sharing an internet connection to two computers. You really should be using a Router for this, for a couple of reasons. One, it's a lot easier to set up (all you have to do is connect the modem into the WAN port of a Router and then plug the two computers into the other ports. It is a little more complex with a DSL modem, since you'll likely have to set up your DSL user information in the router) and two, it's a hell of a lot more secure. Right now, the computer you are using to connect directly to the internet has a public IP address. IP addresses are like telephone numbers, except that some IP addresses are private and some are public. If you have a computer hooked directly to a DSL or cable modem, you're basically setting that computer up with a public phone number, meaning anyone in the world can dial into it and do things. With a router, you give the router that public number and your computer a private number. But the router is designed to prevent any communication with the outside world, so people who try to connect to it get the rough equivalent of a busy signal.
edit: And when I say use a router, I do mean go to Walmart/Best Buy/whatever and buy a Linksys/DLink/whatever Cable/DSL Broadband router.
[ April 12, 2008, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Boris, what you're telling me about the cable makes sense. I DEFINATELLY have cables plugged into all the network ports. These "unplugged" messages are driving me crazy!!
If you have the time, check out the options in Network Setup Wizard. The reason you gave me for not using the option I described is the reason Network Setup Wizard gives me for not using the 'router' option. (which, by the way, is the way I thought I had to do it originally)
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know what exactly the Network Setup Wizard is telling you, or why it would say not to use a router, but the setup that Boris described is what you should be using.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Would note that in the off chance both computers have Firewire (IEEE 1394) ports, they can theoretically also be networked that way...
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I recommend getting a cheap switch. DSL--Switch--Both_Computers. If you go the route your going, you need to use a crossover cable and you probably need to set up both computer NICs that are connected together on half duplex.
With a switch your probably don't need any configuration. Your DSL box acts as a router and is assigning all of your computers a private address via DHCP.
Open up a command prompt and type ipconfig. Chances are it is a 192.168.x.x number. Any additional computers you plug in via a switch will get a different private address and the network address translation will be done automatically via your DSL router/box.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Follow lem's advice and check what your IP address is while connected to the internet first. If it is anything other than 192.168.###.### or 10.10.###.###, you really should get a separate router. Some DSL modems do have built in routing capabilities, in which case you're probably okay with the setup you're using, but you will need that crossover cable. Basically, one of these is what you'll need. If you need any longer that a few feet you'll likely have to get it specially made, in which case you can usually go to a small computer shop and have them make it (they usually charge by the foot per cable and may include some other charges as well). They aren't hard to make but you do have to have cable crimping tools and a good bit of patience (And steady hands).
Not all DSL modems do this, though. If you have to put in a username and password to connect to the internet on your computer, then your modem isn't doing any routing at all and is acting merely as an Internet gateway (The fact that the modem doesn't already include a switch is tipping me in the realm of thinking that this is how your DSL provider works).
If the modem *doesn't* include a router, then using a switch between the two computers and the DSL modem might not work (depending again on your ISP. Some ISPs will only allow you to use one IP address at a time, which means that only one computer will have access to the Internet at a time and you'll probably have to power down or disconnect one computer to use the Internet on the other).
[ April 13, 2008, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Don't get a totally dumb switch without any port differentiation. That sort of switch just works by duplicating the traffic across all the ports and letting the computers sort it out. This isn't normally an issue, but a lot of cable and DSL modems are occasionally confused by the back-traffic, sometimes needing to be reset (by unplugging/replugging).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote: Don't get a totally dumb switch without any port differentiation. That sort of switch just works by duplicating the traffic across all the ports and letting the computers sort it out.
Aren't you talking about a hub and not a switch?
My DSL BOX acts as a router, even though it doesn't have any additional built in ports. It has one Ethernet port and one USB port. When I first configured it with my CD and put in my username and password (a one time deal), it configured the DSL router.
I have a regular cheap switch and three computers plugged into the switch.
Speaking of switches versus hubs, when I got my first switch at a local computer store it turned out to be a hub! After I got home I noticed that one side of the box called it a switch and the other side called it a hub. It ended up being a hub from a generic company.
I returned it and got a switch from a different computer store.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ricree, Network Setup Wizard didn't tell me NOT to use a router, it offered two (or more) options and, based on my needs (which is really only internet sharing), the router option didn't seem to be the best approach (or at least that's how I read it)
I don't need a username/password to connect to the internet and my DSL modem is a Siemens "Ethernet ADSL modem" (a freebie from AT&T) if that helps.
It looks like I'm gonna need to go with a router to get this to work properly. However, all this talk of switches, hubs and routers has me a little confused. What's the difference and what should I be looking for specifically?
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
The username/password is probably already entered into the configuration of your DSL modem. You don't need it, unless the modem gets fried (and needs replaced) or needs a complete reset (rare).
A hub is a repeater; it retransmits data to every port. Hubs are pretty rare anymore.
A switch is like a repeater that retransmits data to a specific port. These are quite common and can be useful, but they don't 'talk' to modems.
A router is an intelligent switch, basically. A router knows how to talk to your DSL modem.
Based on the ipconfig information you posted, a router is what you want. Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a ZOOM wireless DSL router/modem, and it works great. I live not having to run wires as my computer is in a room that doesn't have a phone outlet, and I don't own the Condo so I can't install one myself.
I don't know if you need wireless, but it sure is cool. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tstorm has it more or less right for hubs and switches, but the Router definition is basically just scratching the surface.
A router basically keeps track of where data is coming from, decides where it needs to go, and shoots it off accordingly. Additionally, it does what is called Network Address Translation (NAT), which allows data that is destined for your 70.224.x.x IP address to arrive at your computer, which will actually have an IP address of 192.168.x.x. Most small, home routers also include DHCP (Dynamic Host Control Protocol), which is what actually tells your computer what IP address and DNS servers to use for network communication.
But Basically, a hub is more or less a splitter, meaning the same information gets sent out of every port at the same time, and whichever computer is actually waiting for that information gets it.
A switch keeps track of which computer sent which information and then makes sure that that computer is the only one that receives any response.
A hub will generally screw things up and slow things down (And this effect is compounded the more computers you have connected to it). They aren't generally used in networking these days, since switches are much more capable of handling communication. Hubs do have their uses, though, but I won't go into that.
But basically, for your situation, you will want to go buy a router simply because it will share the internet connection pretty flawlessly (because most of them also have a switch in them...which I realize is probably confusing as heck...Just go to Walmart or wherever you buy electronics and ask them for a router. Hopefully someone will know what you're talking about) and it will shut down any incoming communications that you don't start yourself.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here is 2 more cents to the discussion about hubs, switches, and routers--even tho Boris did a good job.
Here are some definitions to start: Data that is sent over a network (including the Internet) is divided into packets that, among other things, include the IP Address and MAC address.
The IP address is the address of everything connected to a network--including web pages, printers, computers, phones, et cetera. There are public address and private addresses. One of Google's public addresses is 64.233.187.99. Type that into the URL and it goes to Google.
Private Addresses are not seen outside of a self contained local network. I could have a private address of 192.168.5.15 on my network and so could you. Since the Internet will never use that IP range there will never be a conflict.
A MAC address is the address of any physical device that connects you to a network. Each Ethernet Card has a MAC address burnt into it. It is the address of that specific device.
HUBS vs SWITCHES vs ROUTERS
A hub takes a packet and replicates it to each port. If you have an 8 port hub and all 8 devices are sending and receiving data, it cuts the bandwidth by 8 because it is being shared. Each device gets all the data but only the device with the right MAC address doesn't drop the packet. Very insecure and slow.
A 10 port 10Mbs hub with 10 devices on it downloading a large file will have each device actually downloading at around 1Mbs.
A simple switch has a memory chip on it and it builds a table of MAC addresses and port numbers. If you have an 8 port switch, it will build a table REALLY fast of the MAC address of each device plugged into each particular port.
When a switch receives data it only sends it to the port that matches the MAC address in the packet. As such all ports are working independently of each other and do not share bandwidth. You can have 8 computers downloading a large file at the same time on a 100Mbs switch and they will all download at 100Mbs.
A router routes data between 2 separate networks through the IP address and gateway. You use a router to connect a private network to the public Internet or to route 2 non-consecutive ip ranges.
DSH has a gateway connecting him(?) to the Internet and only has one IP address. By buying a router, the router will be assigned the 1 IP Address and any device connected to it downstream will have a private address. The router will translate the private addresses to the public address when they need to connect to the Internet.
It is a shame his box doesn't already act like a router. Every Internet company I have used has issued me a router to connect to the Internet.
These are very simple definitions. Most routers have switches built directly into them anymore. It is likely DSH will buy a router that has 4 or 5 ports on it and will not need to buy a switch.
Stopped by Staples after work today and was not impressed with their HUGE offering of switches and hubs, and their ONE wired router.
It just occured to me that my boss has a router (at least I think it's a router) gathering dust in the supply closet. Maybe I'll get lucky and get it cheap!
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
