posted
As detailed in my other thread, I'm moving! My girlfriend is coming with me, but her mom....doesn't approve. This causes a few issues...
Story:
My girlfriend owns a chihuahua, Chili. Several years ago, the previous family dog gave birth to puppies, one of which was Chili, who was my girlfriend's favorite. Her mom ended up giving the dog away, but because my girlfriend wanted him so bad, she asked her mom to get Chili, who now lived in Kansas.
They did so.
My girlfriend now, of course, wants Chili to come with us, but her mom won't allow it.
My question is, who really owns the dog? Is it just plain and simply her mom, since she owns the dog that gave birth to him? Or would my girlfriend, who is really close to him, be able to make some claim?
Posts: 450 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Once the mother gave the dog away, assuming your using this phrase in the usual manner, neither the mother nor your girlfriend had any ownership rights.
Since the mother got the dog back, it's most likely hers. But it depends on the details of that transaction and possibly on who's been paying for the animal's upkeep. That might serve as evidence that the dog was a gift to the girlfriend.
Ownership of dogs in most states is done on the basis of normal property laws. The one time I can think of when closeness to the dog matters is in a situation like a divorce, where there are two owners.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
The real question is, would your girlfriend actually be willing to take her mom to court over the dog? That's gonna make a lot of harsh feelings even harder to get over.
My advice would be to leave Chili with mom for the time being. When the two of them patch things up (and they probably will), they'll be able to reach an agreement then. As much work as dogs are, mom may not want to keep Chili anyway.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I agree with AvidReader. Her mom is probably just upset and grasping at straws to try to get her daughter not to move in with you. Eventually she'll come around.
Out of curiosity, how old are the two of you? Do you get along with her mother? I understand that your girlfriend is obsessed with this dog (also, your gf sounds like a spoiled child), but she'll likely have to wait a while for the dog to move too.
I also recommend just sitting down and talking with her mother about it. Maybe she just really doesn't like you. Maybe she thinks that if she keeps the dog, her daughter will visit more. There are tons of possible reasons for her actions (I suspect she's trying to punish her daughter for disobedience), but anyway, it would be useful to have a better idea as to why she wants to keep the dog, and you may be able to change her mind.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by DevilDreamt: I understand that your girlfriend is obsessed with this dog (also, your gf sounds like a spoiled child), but she'll likely have to wait a while for the dog to move too.
I think that's out of line. All we know about his girlfriend (from this post, anyway) is that she formed a strong bond with a pet, and thus wants to continue having the pet in her life. I think that's a perfectly normal and rational desire.
I don't think we have enough information to know who the dog would technically belong to.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Ah, sorry, I didn't mean to be out of line. I'll be more clear. I admit there is little information here to go on. My assessment could be all wrong. The part that made her sound spoiled: "Her mom ended up giving the dog away, but because my girlfriend wanted him so bad, she asked her mom to get Chili, who now lived in Kansas." And her mother did this for her.
I found it strange that her mother would give the dog away, and then try to get it back at the request of her daughter. It strikes me as something my parents never would have done, and I think it's a touch rude to the dog's new owner. How do you go about asking for the dog back? "You know that dog we gave you that you've been busy forming an emotional attachment to? Ah, yes, well, it turns out my daughter already has an emotional attachment to it and she'd like it back. Not to make light of any bond you've formed with the dog, of course, but my daughter really really is attached to it. I hope you understand."
I still stand by the rest of what I said. Sorry to make such a big deal over an incredibly minor snap judgment on my part, one I probably should have kept to myself.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
There's a special line of law dealing with animal ownership and husbandry. More to do with the commercial/farming stuff though, rather than pets.
I would just take Chili and run. Come see if momma sues her daughter over it!
Reminds me of a Steve Miller song.
Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Before you make plans about bringing Chili along, make sure you can find housing that will allow you to have a dog in the first place and that you can afford the extra security deposits and increased rent that are likely to follow. I paid an extra $500 deposit plus $10 a month to have cats. My landlord won't allow dogs, but the ones in my area that do charge at least a grand deposit and $50 extra rent, in addition to the regular deposit and rent for having only human tenants.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Isn't the larger issue really the fact that mom doesn't approve of the move, and as such, is using the dog as a bargaining chip?
If it were me, I'd address why mom doesn't approve, and if anything can be done to mend that relationship, which I hope, is more important than the dog.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
The way it happened was that the doggy mom had a little of puppies, including Chili. My girlfriend really liked Chili and become very close to him while he was still at the house with the doggy mom. One day, while my girlfriend was at school, her mom sold him without having ever asking my girlfriend what she thought or whatnot.
So, my girlfriend was very distraught. Her mom saw this, called the people who bought Chili, explained the situation, they understood and agreed to give him back so long as they got their money back. They lived in Kansas, so that's where they had to go to get him.
Anyway... Yeah, he's being used a bargaining chip, but I don't know if her mom will be willing to "renegotiate" as it were.
And we weren't going to take him at first. We were going to get approved, move in, and get settled before we got him, but... You know. Even that's not possible now.
I didn't think there would be any legal advantage, and we'll probably end up without him, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask...
Posts: 450 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
If your girlfriend has been paying for all of Chili's food, vet bills, and doing all care of the dog, then she probably has the point that she can say she "owns" the dog, as she has given all support.
If the mom paid for everything, it's not your girlfriend's dog.
If the dog is purebred and has papers (which it seems it must, if the mom 'sold' it at some point), then it probably belongs to whoever is listed as owner on the papers.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Look at this another way. Having a pet makes it much harder for you to get an apartment in the new city. You will have to live in a worse place for more money (probably an additional deposit to boot) if the owners know you're bringing in a pet. If you try and sneak the dog in, you could be evicted.
Also, you should just consider getting married, if you're really serious enough to have her relocate to another city with you. You'll pay less taxes, anyway. Just elope. Sure that's not what her mom would ultimately prefer, but the mom has proven herself not to be someone who wants to be reasonable.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by The Genuine: If it's worth pseudo-eloping like that, the money's no object.
The reason I brought up security deposits and additional rent is because this is tied into Ginol's questions about whether we would take the job transfer to another state. Based on my recollection of that thread, he was anticipating a raise of less than a dollar to make the move and no financial assistance for moving, although he'd also be promoted to a position that would generate more frequent small raises. Plus his girlfriend, who would be moving with him, has no current leads in that area and neither of them have any friends or family as support. I think adding a puppy to the mix is a bad idea, personally, but I think taking the job is a bad idea as well.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I don't think willingness to relocate implies that the timing is right for marriage, be it planned or elopement.
I will agree that a dog will not help an already financially dangerous situation. I understand how hard it is to be without a beloved pet as I had to entrust my parrot to my parents for some of the time that I was away at college because the house I lived in didn't have safe and adequate heating during the winter. Animals are a huge responsibility and what if you and your girlfriend end up working long hours to support yourselves? Who will be there to let the dog out for potty breaks? Who will be there to play with it and keep it company so it doesn't go stir-crazy being left alone for hours on end?
Let the mom keep the dog and let her find another bargaining chip. In the meantime, I hope the girlfriend is spending every minute of her time looking for job opportunities in the new area. And you should both be pricing apartments and planning a monthly budget.
A dog is the least of your troubles.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
What's best for the puppy? When I left my husband's household, I left my beloved kitties there. It wouldn't have been fair to them to uproot them and take them away from thier friends and family, and familiar places. I wasn't going to have a stable, comfortable place to live.
After a while, I was able to visit and play with them occasionally. It turned out okay. (My husband and I have never gotten along better, but I still wouldn't move back in with him.)
I'd suggest leaving the dog with mom, then getting another one when the circumstances are right. Or pay mom for the dog the price she had to return for it, if she will accept it. Or wait and see if she doesn't let you take the dog when it is no longer needed as a bargaining chip (after you have moved in together).
I'd also recommend quietly getting married before moving in together. I you're not ready to be married to each other, you're not ready to live together, either.
Posts: 1379 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote: I you're not ready to be married to each other, you're not ready to live together, either.
I'd disagree with that. Marriage can come with some pretty serious baggage. After my parents' divorce, I wasn't sure I ever wanted to get married.
My fiancee and I have been dating for 11 years now and living together for five. I'm finally at a place where I'm looking forward to the idea of eloping. I'm still not ok with the thought of a big, elaborate ceremony and reception. I'm also not sure I'm going to tell people we did it after we sign the papers.
I'm ok with marrying him, but I'm not so sure I'm ok with the idea of marriage as an abstract concept still. It's not a great reason to move in together given my religious beliefs, but God hasn't bugged me about it so I'm guessing He understands and is letting it slide.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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