FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Call for Human Blood Substitute Trials to Stop

   
Author Topic: Call for Human Blood Substitute Trials to Stop
ElJay
Member
Member # 6358

 - posted      Profile for ElJay           Edit/Delete Post 
We had a thread awhile back that sndrake started about a blood substitute trial in his area, and needing to wear a bracelet to opt-out. A report has been released claiming that these substitutes, across the board, have a 30% higher mortality rate than human blood and may cause heart attacks. One researcher claims that this has been known for at least 12 years.

Here's the article. The companies conducting the trails, of course, say that the study isn't valid.

Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
Of course they say that.

Good grief, it just bothers me SO MUCH that they do studies like that.

Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pooka
Member
Member # 5003

 - posted      Profile for pooka   Email pooka         Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting. Total mortalities constituted 7.7% of the cases studied, and the difference in number of deaths between the two groups comes out to 1.1% of the cases.

The higher incidence of heart attacks is greater than the difference in deaths. That means that for mortality other than from heart attack, the fake blood is infinitesimally safer. If they can figure out what the heart attack link is, that would be good.

Though I guess not all heart attacks are fatal.

I thought the proposed mechanism of heart attack was interesting. The fake blood scavenges nitric oxide from bloodstream. I wonder if they can't just balance the nitric oxide to see if that fixes it or if nitric oxide is part of what makes blood go bad.

Mostly, I'd say this is a lot like the MMR question. Some people will die, but overall you've got to look at the impact of people being able to be treated with fake blood derived from expired blood. People who say not even one additional death is acceptable don't understand the exigencies of public health.

Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post 
I am not opposed to the product. I am opposed to the method of conducting studies (having to opt out instead of opt in.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pooka
Member
Member # 5003

 - posted      Profile for pooka   Email pooka         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, that is weird. Do they carry blood in ambulances? I don't think they do since EMT's aren't allowed to administer anything besides, like, oxygen.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rivka
Member
Member # 4859

 - posted      Profile for rivka   Email rivka         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by pooka:
Yeah, that is weird. Do they carry blood in ambulances?

The last time this discussion came up, it became clear that they do not. These substitutes are being used in ambulances instead of plasma or saline.

However, once the patient reaches the hospital, treatment continues with the artificial blood.

Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aspectre
Member
Member # 2222

 - posted      Profile for aspectre           Edit/Delete Post 
Well, at least the military conducts its trials on civilians instead of on real people.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Corwin
Member
Member # 5705

 - posted      Profile for Corwin           Edit/Delete Post 
ROFL!
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pooka
Member
Member # 5003

 - posted      Profile for pooka   Email pooka         Edit/Delete Post 
Wha? Let's see, how many people died in battle last year as opposed to car accidents?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sndrake
Member
Member # 4941

 - posted      Profile for sndrake   Email sndrake         Edit/Delete Post 
Eljay,

Thanks for the reminder of my earlier posts on this subject.

There's more on this that hasn't come out, and it's really ironic given the political news of the past couple of days.

Since most of the people who have posted on this thread follow politics pretty closely, y'all will have noticed that Jeremiah Wright has dominated the political news the past couple of days.

Among the many soundbites that endlessly looped was the charge that AIDS was created by the government and part of a plot. There are some promoters of this theory, and it's one that has a fair amount of believers, even though there's no credible evidence for it.

The more interesting question - to me - is *why* people would believe the "AIDS as a government conspiracy theory."

That brings me to an aspect of the substitute blood studies. A disproportionate amount of the research was conducted in areas with high African-American populations:

From: Blacks Disproportionate Subjects of Lethal Artificial Blood experiment

quote:
"We are an African-American community that has been treated like guinea pigs."

In view of the findings by The Detroit Free Press (below) it is hard to argue with the Rev. Charles Williams, president of the National Council for Community Empowerment.

As the facts come tumbling down, the controversy surrounding Northfield Laboratories' unethical medical experiment conducted without informed consent, can only escalate. The Free Press reports that the subjects of that controversial experiment in which the artificial blood product, Polyheme, was tested were disproportionately African-Americans.

In one Illinois town where the product was tested, 83% of the population is black.

That small town referred to in the last sentence is Maywood - and it's the hospital near my work that was conducting the study.

Imagine if Jeremiah Wright had decided to preach about the targeting of African-American communities for this research - involving nonconsenting "enrollement" - instead of talking about conspiracy theories about AIDS - the Polyheme study was in his own backyard.

Even more to the point, he could have talked about the administration that authorized these exemptions to consent in research -- Bill Clinton's administration.

I expect to be blogging about this soon, but not until Friday at the earliest. I am visiting my parents for a few days and won't be back in the office until Friday.

Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ElJay
Member
Member # 6358

 - posted      Profile for ElJay           Edit/Delete Post 
:/

What a shitty thing.

Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pooka
Member
Member # 5003

 - posted      Profile for pooka   Email pooka         Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed, there.

One of the big things that scares the MMR weirdos is that a bad batch was recalled, then picked up and sent back out to low income clinics. That's the story anyway. I don't even know where those books are anymore, since it was such a bone of contention between my in-laws and me.

Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dkw
Member
Member # 3264

 - posted      Profile for dkw   Email dkw         Edit/Delete Post 
While I would like to think that an organization responsible for distribution of vaccines wouldn't do that, it's not too different (except in scale) from people who donate their expired and spoiled food to food pantries. And I've sorted through a lot of that.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dagonee
Member
Member # 5818

 - posted      Profile for Dagonee           Edit/Delete Post 
You might want to change how you refer to people who are suspicious of vaccinations, pooka.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 10495

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP         Edit/Delete Post 
anti-vaccination weirdos? [Wink]
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2