quote:1. I knew the bad guy was the bad guy from his first appearance on the screen. Worst of all was the reveal to Stark. Stark doesn't figure it out, it isn't a moment of betrayal, it wasn't a good moment in the script - the bad guy just decided to tell him. For no discernable reason. Without doing anything to protect himself from what Stark would do next. LAME.
Well, the reason he blew his cover to Stark was because Stark was about to find out from Pepper anyway. He was beating her to the punch so Stark wouldn't have time to mobilize.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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"Without doing anything to protect himself from what Stark would do next. LAME."
Like paralyzing him while stealing the battery that's keeping Tony's heart alive?
"Speaking of, and then they build a suit in a day? That exactly matches what Stark did?"
I'm pretty sure they had been building that for some time.
"4. All the setups for the next film. I get that they planned for a sequal, but the lame climax of this movie felt like they should have said To Be Continued at the end of it. You can have movies in a series still have a structure within themselves."
Of course they're going to have setups, but I thought this movie stood by itself great. It's not like it's half a story.
"Pepper Pots as romantic character. She's an uberconfident and compentent woman until Stark asks her to dance, and then all of a sudden she turns into a 15-year-old who's never been on a date before. It was jarring. What happened to that woman we saw before? Did he spike her drink? Because that would at least provide an explanation for her behavior, and it would give him layers. Evil layers. "
She obviously liked him for a while and he made a nervous. And she was thinking about what everyone else was thinking. I think that's believable.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Kat, I felt that Pepper was indeed uber-confident in her ability to perform her job, definitely not in her interpersonal relationships. Tony, too, they didn't really know how to have a grown up relationship. They always fell back to the comfortable Boss/Employee thing that has worked before.
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quote:I felt that Pepper was indeed uber-confident in her ability to perform her job,
I thought they really flubbed the scene where she goes back to the office. She should have walked in like she owned the place and shown no nervousness when Stain showed up. She's Tony Stark's assistant and she wields his authority with ease.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: 1. I knew the bad guy was the bad guy from his first appearance on the screen.
I knew this right away too. But it wasn't something that I didn't like. I just thought, well, that's the Hollywood formula. The bad guy is always the guy standing shoulder to shoulder with the good guy.
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I thought they really flubbed the scene where she goes back to the office. She should have walked in like she owned the place and shown no nervousness when Stain showed up. She's Tony Stark's assistant and she wields his authority with ease.
When Obadiah Stane entered Tony Stark's office, Potts had just finished playing a video that implicated Stane in a conspiracy to murder Stark. His first words were, "What are we going to do about this?" Potts had no way of knowing just how much Stane had heard. Given the circumstances, I'd say she reacted as well as anyone could have.
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quote:When Obadiah Stane entered Tony Stark's office, Potts had just finished playing a video that implicated Stane in a conspiracy to murder Stark. His first words were, "What are we going to do about this?" Potts had no way of knowing just how much Stane had heard. Given the circumstances, I'd say she reacted as well as anyone could have.
I think she reacted better than most people would have, but I still think she should have been cooler. As Tony's assistant, she's had to run around Stain for years.
More glaring was her being nervous as she went into the office, though.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: As Tony's assistant, she's had to run around Stain for years.
Well, she's used to thinking of Stain as a close friend/mentor figure for her boss, but she doesn't have any history of having to manuver around him, does she? Historically he's been an ally, as far as she and Stark are aware.
quote:More glaring was her being nervous as she went into the office, though.
quote:I think she reacted better than most people would have, but I still think she should have been cooler. As Tony's assistant, she's had to run around Stain for years.
In hindsight, yeah, I wish Pepper had acquitted herself better. At the time though, it was a pretty effective way of making Stane more terrifying. And let's not forget, she did accomplish her primary goals of obtaining the incriminating evidence, and getting herself out.
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posted
Excellent movie. I know less about Iron Man than any of the recent adaptation movies, but I really liked it, and thought the progression from blueprint to full on Iron Man was fairly smooth considering the time constraints.
I've missed RDJ. He's a great actor. Looking forward to the sequels.
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Ie seemed to me that Pepper was never had all that much formal ocntact with Stane, she ran Starks life, she wasn't even efilliated with his company. Otherwise, wouldn't she know exactly where his office was and already have a key?
Posts: 549 | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
I thought that was Stane's office that she went into? Why would Stane keep his plot to kill Stark on Stark's computer? And why would Stane be suspicious if she's on her boss' computer?
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Tony's office. Stane made a comment about how Tony always keeps the good stuff in his office. I think what Pepper did was sneak into the mainframe, the server, not files on the computer's harddrive.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Yep. It's pretty clearly supposed to be a private network share, not a "ghost drive." What's bizarre about that is that it's incredibly stupid of Stane to put these files on a share, even a private one, that's owned and operated by the technical genius who wrote the operating system -- with the obvious expectation of privacy.
I like to think the screenwriters are smarter than that, and that Stane actually has his personal files on an encrypted folder on his own laptop -- and that Tony's little program simply hacked into Stane's laptop over the corporate LAN and grabbed the items with the tightest security.
What's actually more surprising is that Tony's little USBkey-based search program only popped up a relatively small number of directories. While I can imagine that it went through and selected only those files to which his normal account would not have access (on the assumption that Stane would have put the confidential stuff in just such a directory), I think Stane's pretty clearly the kind of guy who can't avoid either a) creating forty thousand little directories with names like "Important Stuff - 02/20/08" that contain one file and/or b) having one big "private" directory that contains six hundred files, half of which are actually multiple versions of the same file and all of which are named something like "Document 1 - Rev."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Then how come Stane was suspicious as soon as he walked into the room? He did say something as soon as he walked in that suggested he knew what she was doing.
And why would Stane keep that on the server instead of his own personal computer?
Edit: I posted this before I saw Tom's post,even though my post was 6 minutes after. It was sitting on my screen for a while. Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Can anyone confirm that when Stark first puts on his mark II armor in the assembly line (the red/gold one), a star of david can be seen at the core of the arc reactor in his chest?
I don't know if I was imagining it, or whether it was really there.
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quote:Then how come Stane was suspicious as soon as he walked into the room? He did say something as soon as he walked in that suggested he knew what she was doing.
He says something like "Now what are we going to do about this, eh?"
We the audience -- and Pepper -- are supposed to interpret this as typical villain gloating: "Ha! I caught you! Let me be civil for a while before I kill you." But as the scene progresses, it becomes obvious that while he's curious (even suspicious) about her presence there, he doesn't actually know she's doing anything sneaky. In fact, I think at one point he's contemplating sleazily making her a "job" offer.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
At that point, didn't Stane already tell Stark that he was the one trying to freeze him out of the process? And hadn't Stark been working from home for weeks? Why wouldn't Stane be a little curious or suspicious that Stark's personal assistant was in his office at the computer when Stane had just told Stark what he was up to and knew that Stark didn't approve?
posted
BTW, anyone want to start a pool that predicts War Machine flying high above the Earth in the next movie without encountering icing problems? Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Ido: Can anyone confirm that when Stark first puts on his mark II armor in the assembly line (the red/gold one), a star of david can be seen at the core of the arc reactor in his chest?
I don't know if I was imagining it, or whether it was really there.
I didn't see that.
Welcome to Hatrack. Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Somehow, explaining Pepper Pots acting like a 15-year-old who has never been on a date by saying that on the inside, this beautiful, intelligent 30-something woman has the emotional maturity of a 15-year-old who has never been on a date does not make it better.
They danced one dance! They barely swayed! Why was she freaking out? If they did a Mr.-and-Mrs.-Smith-style tango I could understand, but that junior high shuffle wouldn't scandalize my grandmother. Unless Stark was not wearing pants, Pepper was over-reacting in an enormous way. And then he just stands there while she tries to kiss him. The whole scene was awkward and strange.
However, the scene where she put in the new power thing in his chest was excellent.
I'm going back to the drugged idea.
I did like the payoff - where she turns him down for leaving her on the balcony alone. That's exactly what I was thinking when he was marching away from the party.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I did like the payoff - where she turns him down for leaving her on the balcony alone. That's exactly what I was thinking when he was marching away from the party.
Yeap, me too. That seemed the true her. Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
stark has the reputation of sleeping with women he just met.
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And? He didn't just meet Pepper, they've known each other for a long while. She knows how he treats other women and if she thinks he's going to treat her like that I expect she'd be more careful, not more immature.
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I thought her response made perfect sense, not because she had "the emotional maturity of a 15-year-old," but because he was her boss, and had been for many years. They had a very well-established dynamic up to that point, one in which they both felt comfortable. Pepper did clearly have something of a long-time crush on Tony, but it was one that she had long since learned to suppress (or least keep hidden).
Now, all of a sudden, Tony finds himself becoming interested in her, and that abruptly shifts the dynamic for both of them. I think it's important that it's not just Pepper who reacts awkwardly- Tony himself is nothing like his usual suave self during both the dance and talk on the balcony. They're good friends entering uncharted waters together, and it seemed perfectly natural to me that neither one of them would really know how to deal with it.
In short: to Pepper Potts, Tony Stark isn't just any guy. And to Tony Stark, Pepper Potts isn't just any woman. They're friends and confidantes with a long history, not to mention what has always been an unequal power dynamic due to their respective jobs. The possibility of a romantic relationship would naturally throw them for a loop.
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She's been with him for years. She's never seen him act anything but casual and predatory with women. And I'm sure she decided right off that she wasn't going to be one of those women, that she was going to make him accept her on her own terms. But I'll bet she's had thoughts about what it would be like, and from the scenes in the beginning of the movie they've been playing a coy little flirting game for some time now.
Apparently Stark has always kept it behind a line. So when he crossed the line without warning, especially after Pepper has had what must have been a traumatic three months, it didn't surprise me at all that she reacted the way she did. She pulled herself together afterwards, but for that one moment we saw her blindsided by something she's told herself she can't have.
posted
Let me add some emphasis there. For three months she thought he was dead. And the last time she saw him she was haranguing him to go.
And then he came back. And he was different. And he was focused on something. And the way he was acting around her was different, new, scary. And he hadn't resumed his tomcatting ways. And she was off-guard and surprised when he showed up and changed their relationship.
(Also - grown, confident, secure people never act like nervous kids in the right situation? Really?)
I think that one of the things that made this movie so good was that we saw everyone in it break away from their comfortable masks a little. Tony broke his playboy mask enough to become a hero. Pepper broke her all-business enough to reveal something deeper. Rhodey unbent enough to appreciate Tony's methods. Stane just kinda broke. But everyone changed, even if it was only temporarily.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I know what they were going for, but they didn't accomplish it. The script and the words were fine, but the scene is strange and its a combination of Paltrow and the direction. Downey was fine, but he was also largely inert.
I have a good parallel - Mr. and Mrs. Smith did the scene excellently. Two adults, long relationship, and something is changing. They managed to be nervous around each other without giggling like an idiot or suddenly acting like they were at a junior high dance.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I've gotta throw in with Chris and the others on thinking that Pepper's reaction in the dancing scene was believable, for at least two reasons beyond what's already been mentioned.
1) They are in a room full of people. Given Stark's propensity for wanton sexual relationships even an "innocent" dance with his assistant could be seen as a sign of her sleeping with him to gain professional status (which she would be strongly opposed to) and so would be akward in her reactions
2) My best friend has done almost the exact same kind of thing. He is a very competent and independant person with a strong sense of self, very good around other people etc etc... yet whenever he was around his fiance (before they were dating) he would clam up and become this nervous nelly. Literally he could be casually friend-flirting with a dozen women and be the life of the party, but as soon as he noticed she was around, he would clam up and act very silly and schoolboyish... so for me I was just seeing Paltrow play the part of a person I know quite well...
Not to say that Mr & Mrs Smith wasn't done well, but it was a very different context... they were alone, and didn't really seem to like each other very much as friends and suddenly the relationship changes. Whereas in Iron Man, they are in the middle of a crowd and are coming at this from the long-time-friends angle, which is very different.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Her character was a bit all over the place. Either she works with the other employees often enough that she's freaked out about their impressions, or else she works only with Stark and so can't be expected to act naturally when at the company headquarters. Basically, her character was all over the place. Some parts were great. Others felt grafted on.
Maybe y'all find a 30-year-old woman acting like a naive idiot believable. I didn't, and it was one of the weakest parts of the movie.
The other being the miraculous and pointless Evil Suit.
And, oh! "I thought it would be bigger." WHY?? Stark's suit is his size. Why did she think it would be bigger? Why was she expecting a big suit in the first place? That was another moment when Pepper stopped being a real character and became the voice of the writers.
If there's an explanation that wasn't in the movie, it's not really interesting. Like with him being gone for three months - if you have to start coming up with explanations for her strange behavior, then maybe the scene wasn't done well to begin with.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:And, oh! "I thought it would be bigger." WHY?? Stark's suit is his size. Why did she think it would be bigger?
Because she knows Stane. He probably drives a Hummer.
Seriously. Why wouldn't it be bigger? I would expect that Stane would want a bigger, badder suit than Tony. It just seems like he's that kind of guy. And I don't think it's unbelievable that Pepper has the same expectations I do.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
All those explanations seems to assume that Pepper feels about the other character the exact same way the fans do. She might, but we don't see that. It makes her an emptier character to just be the voice of whatever the writers or fans want to express at any given moment.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:It makes her an emptier character to just be the voice of whatever the writers or fans want to express at any given moment.
I wouldn't feel too bad for Pepper until you're done mourning Rhodey. It's a terrible burden, playing Dr. Watson.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Clearly they got their audience right. Don't worry, men! Express an interest and that cool, collected, beautiful blonde will turn into a giggling pile of mush before your eyes!
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*sigh* That was probably rude. Sorry.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Mostly because every objection I've said has been met with "It was totally real! Women really act like that when they like someone!"
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I think it's true enough that certainly some women act like that, even the ones that are otherwise "strong" and "composed." It's hard for me to say whether this particular take on this particular fictional character is accurate, though.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Accurate for the postSilverAge Marvel. The SilverAge died when MaryJane was retconned into a whimpering idiot who always knew PeterParker was SpiderMan, who was always in love with Spiderman (and PeterParker, though probably secondarily). Then came the era of pure unadulterated authorial misogyny for nearly all of the major female supporting characters and all of the superheroines. Sales tanked.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Clearly they got their audience right. Don't worry, men! Express an interest and that cool, collected, beautiful blonde will turn into a giggling pile of mush before your eyes!
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*sigh* That was probably rude. Sorry.
Not only was it rude, but it's an absurd claim to lay at the feet of anyone here. Until Tom posted (after you) and said that some women do that, the only time anyone drew any sort of analogy to the real world was when someone said that their male friend acted like Pepper when he was around a woman he was interested in. Other than that, it's been people saying that the way she acted didn't seem odd to them. Nobody has said anything remotely like the words you're putting in their mouth.
Since you clearly knew it was false and insulting before you posted it, I'm forced to wonder why you went ahead and posted it anyway.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Katharina, I take at least a little offense at your characterization of our comments as sexist. My example in particular is intended to be gender-neutral. In fact my example is of a man acting like that. The argument that I'm seeing isn't that "women really act like that when they like someone." It's that sometimes PEOPLE act like that when they like someone and events start shifting the relationship from good friends and coworkers towards something more.
I completely respect that you didn't think it felt appropriate (and I'm not going to say that everything about Potts was perfectly done) but it seems like a lot of us didn't get that same vibe from the scene. And honestly, maybe it is the writers intentionally (or unintentionally) being male chauvinists, but I don't think we can say that categorically based on what we saw in the movie.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Her character was a bit all over the place. Either she works with the other employees often enough that she's freaked out about their impressions, or else she works only with Stark and so can't be expected to act naturally when at the company headquarters.
Or she's used to a specific relationship with Stark in public and was caught off guard when he changed the boundaries in front of people whose respect she has already earned and is concerned with losing.
Maybe y'all find a 30-year-old woman acting like a naive idiot believable. I didn't, and it was one of the weakest parts of the movie.
I find it believable that anyone of any age can be a naive idiot. I certainly can be and I'm 42. But I didn't get an idiot vibe at all. Nervous, sure. Terrified, even. Hopeful. But not idiotic and not naive.
And, oh! "I thought it would be bigger." WHY?? Stark's suit is his size. Why did she think it would be bigger?
Maybe because she had just seen the plans for it on Stark's computer?
If there's an explanation that wasn't in the movie, it's not really interesting. Like with him being gone for three months - if you have to start coming up with explanations for her strange behavior, then maybe the scene wasn't done well to begin with.
Because spelling out every inner motivation in the dialogue always makes for a better movie, I guess. Although when he stepped off the plane she was clearly emotional and trying to hide it; he even commented on it.
I have known people, male and female, professionals, grown ups, who have acted like this. I have acted like this. It may not be how you want people to act and you may not be able to respect anyone who acts that way, but they're out there.
I'm not saying the scenes should work for you. Obviously they don't. No worries. I am a little annoyed at your implication that anyone for whom it did work is therefore sexist. Obviously my long history of public misogyny has finally caught up with me.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Maybe y'all find a 30-year-old woman acting like a naive idiot believable.
I found it believable, especially from a control-freak like I'm sure Potts would have to be to clean up after Stark for those years. You can't control another's heart, and that truism has felled many a micro-manager.
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