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BO! My God, how could you have found that out? Well I guess if you don't like my posts, you don't have to read them...
Chris, having made this judgment, you offer me no credible opportunity to reply. Now if I tell you your point on this being an issue with Hollywood in general (manifested in this specific sub genre of superhero movies) is a good one, I'm lying. I do see that I have a tendency to be monomaniacal, thank you for pointing that out.
On the fan fiction thing though, I've sort of changed my mind in two years. I still thinks it's stupid, but I can see some validity in it. Way to hold a grudge though.
Edit: Though upon re-reading that thread, it isn't the one I'm thinking of, but one that was related to a more interesting thread that was a lot longer. I think at this point, (in the thread you linked) I was being a prick- but there was some pretty interesting give and take on the subject elsewhere.
If you want to go down the road of calling out what you do, then I'd say you prefer to appeal to the middle ground position in which no one is realy right, and therefore nothing is really "wrong." I just don't find that... what's the word... appealing- at least as a way of thinking. To argue with, you're very interesting.
Now you've taken a hard line and declared that this is "what I do." I wonder if you can find some value in that, since, as you say, we are not to judge according to the worst qualities.
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Interjection: to be fair, Chris, the new Star Wars trilogy is basically the story of Anakin transforming into Darth Vader, with the fall of the Republic as a backdrop. If the actors playing the main character - the character the movies are centered on - suck, I'm not sure if getting the greatest supporting cast possible really matters that much. I'd still say that the acting in the new trilogy is horrible, just because the person we're suppose to care about the most is played horribly.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Funny enough, after rereading that other thread I realized I was wrong . "Romeo and Juliet" would not have been fan fiction, strictly speaking, by my definition or yours. More like retelling or reimagining. Had he written a play about what would happen if Mercutio killed Romeo or Romeo and Juliet lived and had babies or Balthasar secretly fought crime, or even retold the same story from, say, Lord Capulet's point of view, that would have been fan fiction. "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead?" Total, glorious fan fiction.
In my defense, I don't prefer to appeal to the middle ground, although that's often where I end up. I don't go looking for ways to make everyone right. I just don't see the point in absolute declarations that are negated by even a single valid exception, when more precise declarations remain defensible.
And because of that, I'll retract my own. I don't know that you always do that, and it was unfair to suggest so. I still think you did that here, but I have no idea if it's a regular thing. I've certainly agreed with you in other conversations.
Jhai - true enough. The point I was trying to make was that slapping excellent actors into a movie does not graft on quallity. There were a lot of things wrong with those movies, including the actors paying Anakin. An easy way to see the difference: think of all the quotes you can remember from the original trilogy. Now try and think of any quotes from the second trilogy.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of any that weren't either callbacks to the first movies ("I've got a bad feeling about this") or are remembered for being so bad ("If you're not with me you're my enemy.") There's no... no charm to these movies. Just flash. And lots of sips landing and taking off, over and over. Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Chris, I always felt the problem with the new trilogy was that it had completely lost track of the feel or context of the old ones. In the old ones, the dialog and a lot of the lines were operatic, but not every single one was. Not every single line had significance that was deep and weighty and all-telling.
If you look at the new ones though, any moment of off-handedness or casual language is out of place. They were so stuffy and self conscious, that every line had to be manna from the force, and since a lot of the lines sucked, it was just ridiculous.
Also Lucas somehow came to believe that everything needed to know about the characters would be derived from their dialog. He seems to allow for no intuition or understanding between the characters or the audience in any other way. A look will not suffice, 50 words are better. Except, now the audience uncomfortably realizes that they are being handled.
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Speaking of Comic Books, I miss Elf Quest. I wonder if they still make them. I loved that series in middle school.
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I don't know which ones you've read, but generally, all the Elquest comics in the past 15 years have been pretty bad, and that's very, very sad.
(Basic problem being, I think, that Wendy and Richard Pini became too attached to their characters to kill off anyone but minor characters, and so the stories started reading like lukewarm fanfic where nothing really happens.)
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I only ever read the first few issues. I think our library had it. I loved them. Maybe I shouldn't revisit my childhood. Heaven knows it ruined Night Rider and Air Wolf.
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Elfquest still holds up pretty well for its first 3 or 4 series (through Kings of the Broken Wheel and some of Hidden Years). After that is when it went downhill.
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: And Rivka - what Shakespeare's audiences thought about his work still doesn't tell us what was in his mind when he was writing it. Was his goal to produce masterpieces that would stir the emotions of millions? Or was he trying to fill seats? Or both?
A fair point.
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: I am firmly of the belief that an artist can take a job for pay and still create great art. As far as I am concerned, part of Shakespeare's genius was that he could write plays that appealed to the English masses and still be popular to people hundreds of years later in entirely different societies.
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: A few years ago I heard people saying that nerd was the new black, but I think it's more a function of the things previously associated with nerdom have steadily increased for many years, whereas the things associated with other cliques have remained stagnant. The only quasi new athletic development in the last 50 years I can think of is Ultimate Fighting.
Ultimate Fighting the only quasi new athletic development in 50 years?!! You've got to be kidding. Just off hand I can think of mountain biking, snowboarding, wind surfing, adventure racing, Ultimate Frisbee, canyoneering and skate skiing all of which are new or quasi new within my memory.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I have to admit, it's amusing to watch you go on these sorts of rants periodically, Orincoro. What makes it amusing is your complete reliability in ignoring all sorts of reasonable rebuttals to your half-baked statements.
You're a conversational contortionist when it comes to this stuff.
I say, don't stop with the comic book movies. Let's have more of them! As has been thoroughly and repeatedly demonstrated in this thread, they're far from all bad.
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
. "Romeo and Juliet" would not have been fan fiction, strictly speaking, by my definition or yours. More like retelling or reimagining. Had he written a play about what would happen if Mercutio killed Romeo or Romeo and Juliet lived and had babies or Balthasar secretly fought crime, or even retold the same story from, say, Lord Capulet's point of view, that would have been fan fiction. "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead?" Total, glorious fan fiction.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
