quote:COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - The school board of a small central Ohio community voted unanimously Friday to fire a teacher accused of preaching his Christian beliefs despite staff complaints and using a device to burn the image of a cross on students' arms.
School board members voted 5-0 to fire Mount Vernon Middle School science teacher John Freshwater. Board attorney David Millstone said Freshwater is entitled to a hearing to challenge the dismissal.
Freshwater denies wrongdoing and will request such a hearing, the teacher's attorney, Kelly Hamilton, told the Mount Vernon News.
School board members met a day after the consulting firm H.R. On Call Inc. released its report on the teacher's case.
The report came a week after a family filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Columbus against Freshwater and the school district, saying Freshwater burned a cross on a child's arm that remained for three or four weeks.
Freshwater's friend Dave Daubenmire defended him.
"With the exception of the cross-burning episode. ... I believe John Freshwater is teaching the values of the parents in the Mount Vernon school district," he told The Columbus Dispatch for a story published Friday.
Several students interviewed by investigators described Freshwater, who has been employed by the school district located 40 miles northeast of Columbus for 21 years, as a great guy and their favorite teacher.
But Lynda Weston, the district's director of teaching and learning, told investigators that she has dealt with complaints about Freshwater for much of her 11-year term at the district, the report said.
A former superintendent, Jeff Maley, said he tried to find another position for Freshwater but couldn't because he was certified only in science, the report said.
Freshwater used a science tool known as a high-frequency generator to burn images of a cross on students' arms in December, the report said. Freshwater told investigators he simply was trying to demonstrate the device on several students and described the images as an "X," not a cross. But pictures show a cross, the report said.
Other findings show that Freshwater taught that carbon dating was unreliable to argue against evolution.
I mean I can think of worse ideas but honestly I think that man deserves some kind of award.
he ain't even smart or honest enough to know not to present an impossible defense (it's just an X!) to authorities so obviously he is a perfect candidate for teaching science to our students. bless.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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He probably could have got away with being a really bad teacher, so it's really a good thing that he went crazy and decided branding students was a good idea.
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Well, he has been a teacher for 21 years, so there has to have been support from faculty or parents somewhere. It even said there are students who like him as a teacher. All this means to me is education today isn't about learning, but about politics.
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Why wasn't he arrested immediately after the 'cross-branding' thing? To me that's perhaps a more troubling story than this one.
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quote:Well, he has been a teacher for 21 years, so there has to have been support from faculty or parents somewhere. It even said there are students who like him as a teacher. All this means to me is education today isn't about learning, but about politics.
He's being fired for doing something undeniably inexcusable for a public teacher. He's being fired right after he does it. You conclude that it means that education "isn't about learning, but about politics."
What the heck do you even mean.Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Is the "branding" permanent? I mean, I can't imagine he'd cause the students pain, which a real branding, like branding cattle, would. I'd assume it's a temporary process that'd wear off, otherwise I can't imagine that he wouldn't be fired, brought up on charges, and the district sued.
I'd like more details on the process.
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I'd like to know, also, how a high-frequency generator works, and its effect on the human body. It could very well be that the default pattern really WAS just an "X." Doesn't it use radio waves, or something along those lines? It's not like he took a poker off the coals and laid it on a kid's arm.
So, we don't know a number of things: 1. How the generator even works and if it's permanent, 2. If the student volunteered or not, and 3. the SOURCE of the article. Speaking from experience, newspapers in Columbus can be pretty skewed and unreliable.
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It looks like bad acne. If you look for it I think you can see a cross, and I certainly don't see just an X. I'm more curoius about the process at the moment and whether or not the students volunteered.
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quote: I can't imagine he'd cause the students pain, which a real branding, like branding cattle, would.
The original CNN article on this quoted the kid's parents as saying he was crying in pain so bad he couldn't sleep the day it happened. The article has changed since then and doesn't include the quote anymore.
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quote:The school board of a small central Ohio community voted unanimously Friday to fire a teacher accused of preaching his Christian beliefs despite staff complaints and using a device to burn the image of a cross on students' arms.
This sentence is worthy of the attention of the Grammar Ninja Death Squad. He very likely preached in spite of staff complaints; many people do. It is exceedingly unlikely that he preached in spite of branding a student with a cross. Rather, he is "accused of preaching despite complaints, and of branding a student". The ninjas have accordingly been dispatched, and will not rest from righteous vengeance until their mission is fulfilled!
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About the high frequency thing... my understanding is that, given a high enough frequency, alternating current of extraordinarily high voltage can be applied to a human harmlessly. I remember receiving a 3-5kV shock from a Tesla Coil at the Griffith Park Observatory and remember watching someone demonstrate standing on a similar device unharmed while a piece of wood he was holding burst into flames.
Maybe the teacher was trying something like this?
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Occassional, if you brand a student, you get fired. Period.
Thank you.
And what the heck does it matter if it's permanent or not? If I punch a child in the nose, and his nose bleeds, the fact that the blood can be wiped up is really not the point. I can't imagine that any experiment which leaves a semi-permanent mark on skin would be condoned in any public school. I mean, even the Catholic schools don;t brand their students! (kidding)
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Hell, I don't care if it's permanent, painful, or impermanent and painless. You shouldn't either, Occassional. It's a disgraceful thing for a teacher to do, and disgraceful for you to excuse it as 'just politics'.
And of course this ignores the non-question of whether there's any learning at all about 'teaching' Creationism in a science class.
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It doesn't appear that it matters that it looks like a cross, or even if the kid volunteered. Heck, a teacher with 21 years under his belt can ask his class "who wants to get kicked in the rear?" and *someone* will probably volunteer; that doesn't mean he has a free pass to do it.
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I think the [image first linked a few posts above, url ends with "large"] is in such close-up that it is harder to see the overall design (as in a close-up of a tattoo). [There is some pixilation, suggesting it is losing image quality on close-up. Other parts of the image are less fuzzy when not zoomed in as well.] The original view of the article [linked above in this post] has an image at resolution that is more suggestive of the cross interpretation.
I don't think it is clearly a deliberate cross, although I'd want to see it firsthand to judge. I am surprised this was done on more than one child. From what I see, I do expect that would hurt quite a bit.
It's a deliberate cross and the guy's a liar (now on more than one issue)
And seriously occasional, what were you talking about. I know you are reading this thread. It's not very covert.
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quote:And what the heck does it matter if it's permanent or not? If I punch a child in the nose, and his nose bleeds, the fact that the blood can be wiped up is really not the point. I can't imagine that any experiment which leaves a semi-permanent mark on skin would be condoned in any public school. I mean, even the Catholic schools don;t brand their students! (kidding)
You don't see a substantive difference between say, writing on someone with a Sharpie and melting a couple layers of skin with hot metal? Other than ElJay's account, I've seen absolutely nothing on the process itself, how painful it is or isn't, or what the longterm effects were. If he had written on them with a Sharpie for whatever reason, would there be such an uproar? I highly doubt it.
The controversy seems to be stirred up mostly by the word "brand." But without details, I have no idea if the word is appropriate or not.
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Lyrhawn, the example she gave was punching someone in the nose, from which one can heal. But it's still an injury, not writing with a sharpie.
The picture shows an injury.
And for what it's worth, I can't believe those here who claim they can't see the cross shape, which is clearly visible in the photograph.
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quote:The report came a week after a family filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Columbus against Freshwater and the school district, saying Freshwater burned a cross on a child's arm that remained for three or four weeks.
Next Mr. Potter, for detention, you will write "I will not lie" on the back of your hand.
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quote:If he had written on them with a Sharpie for whatever reason, would there be such an uproar?
Well, I'd be less pissed because it wouldn't have involved an actual violent assault (as we usually think of stuff like that). But I'd still be pissed.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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It's not even much of an injury. Marking someone with a high-frequency generator probably doesn't even hurt. I'm not assuming he tortured or maimed or assaulted any students.
He just branded them. With a christian cross. In his science room. Where he displayed the ten commandments and taught creationism and preached christian religion.
Injury isn't the issue. It's (1) this guy turning his classroom into a pulpit, (2) pulling an insanely stupid stunt as part of 1, and (3) being a flat-out liar.
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I'm a College student in the Town were this happened, studying to be a teacher, actually. Never thought it would show up here.
On several occasions I had a chance to meet, observe his class, and talk to him. And after this happened (This is actually old news) I heard the reactions from the teachers around him. They were very supportive, not complaining about him like the news articles seem to say.
There are really two different claims here:
1) That he was preaching in class and
2) That he branded a student
Now to address them from a personal experience. 1) He never preached in the classroom. He had posters, as many teachers do, hanging on his walls. Some of them included quotes from the Bible. He also had a Bible sitting on his desk for his own personal use. He offered to remove the posters, but the Bible was for his personal use, and would not remove it.
2) The branding, from my understanding, happened to more than one student. They volunteered and even asked if he would. The high voltage generator (my understanding is it was a Tesla Coil) does not produce any serious pain. No more than a Van de Graff generator. Just minor discomfort. The claim that the kid was unable to sleep because of pain is flat out not true.
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Injury is a separate issue. I'd be hard pressed to say that injury is of secondary importance.
And I'd also be hard pressed to say that marking someone with high-freq current doesn't hurt. Especially when it leaves significant tissue damage.
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Injury, however, is the issue if you're trying to figure out why the guy wasn't arrested immediately, which I am. Most school districts these days don't even allow a formal paddling. I don't think a teacher could have gotten away with an actual branding even 100 years ago. If this inflicted injury, that the teacher wasn't in a jail cell that evening demands an explanation.
It seems more likely that something other than "burning" occurred here. Hence my previous suggestion that maybe it was some kind of demonstration along the lines of what I have seen from people with Tesla Coils and the like. Edit: and while I was posting, someone has confirmed that hypothesis... thank you.
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Lyrhawn, the example she gave was punching someone in the nose, from which one can heal. But it's still an injury, not writing with a sharpie.
The picture shows an injury.
And for what it's worth, I can't believe those here who claim they can't see the cross shape, which is clearly visible in the photograph.
See, I doubt the generator hurts. Punching someone in the nose hurts. Sharpie doesn't. The picture shows a mark, not an injury.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: " With the exception of the cross-burning episode... I believe John Freshwater is teaching the values of the parents in the Mount Vernon school district,"
How do you even say that with a straight face?
"With the exception of the beating episode, I believe he loves his wife."
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: [QUOTE] And I'd also be hard pressed to say that marking someone with high-freq current doesn't hurt. Especially when it leaves significant tissue damage.
If he were to have taken them outside and one of them got a sunburn, that's significant tissue damage. It also heals.
Posts: 349 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:The high voltage generator (my understanding is it was a Tesla Coil) does not produce any serious pain. No more than a Van de Graff generator. Just minor discomfort. The claim that the kid was unable to sleep because of pain is flat out not true.
I have a tesla coil, which I've used in school demonstrations. I hold the coil in one hand, and with the other I hold hands with several children to form a chain. The last child holds a fluorescent lightbulb. With about five kids, the lightbulb doesn't light, unless we all raise one foot. But I preface the demonstration with a warning: Don't let go of your neighbor's hand, or both of you will get a shock, and it will hurt like hell.
When I've seen Van deGraaf generator demonstrations, the same warning is issued. As long as you are in direct contact with the electrode, you just build up a static charge, and no spark is thrown. But if you remove your hand and a spark jumps, it hurts.
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quote:If he were to have taken them outside and one of them got a sunburn, that's significant tissue damage. It also heals.
It also causes skin cancer, and it also hurts. If he performed an "experiment" in which he subjected a kids skin to sunlight long enough to get a sunburn, that's still inflicting an intentional injury.
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I thought about you when I saw where this article was talking about Adfectio. I knew MVNU was in Ohio.
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yeah. I haven't been on Hatrack a lot recently, but the gf mentioned that this article was on here so I had to come say something.
Posts: 349 | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:If he were to have taken them outside and one of them got a sunburn, that's significant tissue damage. It also heals.
It also causes skin cancer, and it also hurts. If he performed an "experiment" in which he subjected a kids skin to sunlight long enough to get a sunburn, that's still inflicting an intentional injury.
That is exactly what I was thinking-- "Doesn't any burn inflict damage that can increase the risk of skin cancer, and if it left the mark, didn't it damage cells, whether it hurt or not?"
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: " With the exception of the cross-burning episode... I believe John Freshwater is teaching the values of the parents in the Mount Vernon school district,"
How do you even say that with a straight face?
"With the exception of the beating episode, I believe he loves his wife."
Have you ever had siblings? Posts: 1029 | Registered: Apr 2007
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I wasn't talking about the branding. That IS very stupid. I am talking about the underlying assumption both in the article and in the first few posts that he is a VERY bad teacher; especially of science.
Lets put it this way, I have seen far more times a teacher was fired or not rehired because of political or personal reasons than because they are a bad teacher. Sometimes it because the faculty doesn't like them and sometimes its because the influencial members of the community don't like them. I suppose that happens in any work environement, but it is especially the case in education. It takes a very serious stupid move like this stunt to remove some teachers where others are dropped almost without reason.
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Occasional, it is actually the opposite of what you are saying, at least in most public school systems these days. It is nigh on impossible to get rid of teachers, unless they are still in the probationary period, even ones who are incompetent or who blatantly break the rules. Administrators are faced with more and more roadblocks to weeding out incompetent educators. No one even dares giving a bad recommendation.
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Getting zapped with a tesla coil hurts like HELL. Getting zapped with one long enough to leave a mark? I can't even imagine how badly that would hurt.
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I think the difference, Elizabeth, is whether or not the teacher is tenured.
In Alabama, if you're not tenured your contract can be non-renewed because they don't like the color of your hair. And, some school systems lately seem to like the idea of non-tenured teachers - I've heard of many people non-renewed the year before they get tenure, and of course, they have to start over again if they get hired in a new district.
I know some teachers who've been teaching more than 10 years but are unable to get tenure because every time they are at the brink of being tenured, they're let go.
I don't think they're bad teachers - other districts are quick to snatch them up, but administrators seem to want the ability to let go of teachers whenever they wish.
I should note - all of these teachers who get bounced around without the chance to gain tenure are in English or Social sciences. If you're math or science or foreign language, it's easy to get tenure because there is such a shortage in those areas.
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I understand that difference, and I am pretty sure I pointed it out in my post, I just didn't use the term "tenured."
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Paul Goldner: Getting zapped with a tesla coil hurts like HELL. Getting zapped with one long enough to leave a mark? I can't even imagine how badly that would hurt.
This was not my experience.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:I wasn't talking about the branding. That IS very stupid. I am talking about the underlying assumption both in the article and in the first few posts that he is a VERY bad teacher; especially of science.
Actually, if he teaches Creationism in his Science class, I'm quite comfortable in saying he is a very bad teacher. Even if a bunch of kids liked him.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Many school systems use a straight seniority system: adjusted for needed subjects/qualifications, teachers are always let go in the reverse order they were hired (excepting cause, of course).
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