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Author Topic: Since a third Batman film seems almost inevitable...
Puffy Treat
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...which Bat-villans would you like to see in the sequel? Here are some I see as strong possibilities

  • The Penguin: It'd be great if they could restore the Penguin to his former stature as one of Batman's top foes. These days, he's either used as a retired criminal who "fixes" things behind the scenes for other crooks...or he's used as a symbol of the campy, zany TV show. Oh yes...and then there was Tim Burton's disgusting mutant pervert version. I think Nolan has even said he doesn't like the character. Still, some writers like Chuck Dixon and Alan Grant have shown there's still a bit of potential left in Oswald Cobblepot. I think they key would be to downplay the gimmick umbrellas and bird-themed crimes (expect make the point that he cares far more about his beloved exotic birds than he does about people) and focus on his intelligence (which is considerable) and his view of crime as an art form. One that he has perfected.
  • Catwoman: An obvious choice. Maybe too obvious, but Selina Kyle's lasted for a long time for a good reason- She's a great character. Use the slightly more practical outfit Darwyn Cooke designed for her, as well as the more ambivalent, conflicted personality.
  • The Riddler: He'd be a natural for a viral tie-in campaign, wouldn't he? In fact, a good modern take on Edward Nygma may be an ARG enthusiast who takes his hobby a bit too far. Hmmm.
  • Talia Al Ghul: The first film left the Demon Head's fate ambiguous, depending on whether or not the Lazarus Pit exists. Introducing Talia would be a fun way to tease that he might still be alive...and also introduce a love-hate relationship far less familiar to non-comics readers than Batman/Catwoman.
  • Poison Ivy: She was an eco-terrorist before eco-terrorists existed in the real world. Focus on that aspect, downplay or ignore the "human/plant hybrid" stuff.
  • Harley Quinn: Her origin would have to be tweaked, but she'd be a great wild card character. A former doctor at Arkham Asylum, driven insane by love for the Joker. Maybe pair her up with Ivy, as obviously the Joker probably won't turn up again.
  • The Mad Hatter: Use the Dini-Timm take...he's a geek with an obsessive crush who took his crush too far. Maybe also use Jeph Loeb's addition that Alice in Wonderland was the last story Martha Wayne read to Bruce before That Fateful Night, so the Hatter brings up memories he'd rather forget.
  • Doctor Hugo Strange: The archetypical bald, mad scientist. Matt Wagner had the interesting view that Strange became so obsessed with Batman because Batman *ahem* made Strange question his manhood. If there's a guy who seems to be the peak of physical and mental perfection, what excuse does Strange have for being...less then impressive? Heh.
  • The Ventriloquist: He'd certainly make for a creepy, disturbing villain. Ventriloquist dummies are purest evil. Except for Mortimer Snerd. He's alright.
  • The Ten-Eyed Man: Just kidding. A guy blinded, so he sees with his fingers...WOW! [Big Grin]


[ July 21, 2008, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]

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T:man
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Riddle me this Batman, I love the riddler I hope Edward Nigma does make it back into batman. Maybe even more on the Scarecrow he's my favorite.
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MEC
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I could see either Catwoman or The Riddler, possibly both.
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Javert
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If not The Riddler I could see Black Mask and Catwoman.
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krynn
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didn't Nolan already say he won'tbe making a third one?
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neo-dragon
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I think what he's said is that he hasn't planned for a sequel. For that matter, he hadn't planned for one when he did Batman Begins either. He likes to take it one film at a time. I think he has gone on record as saying that he doesn't think that the Penguin would work in his films. I don't know if he ever elaborated on why he feels that way.

In terms of other villains, I think the problem is that they've already used the best ones; the ones that are known for hitting Batman at a personal level. The only other potential villains that can compare to Ra's Al-Ghul, Joker, or Two-face in that regard are Catwoman, and dare I say Bane.

I don't think that Bane will work though. If you're going to use Bane it'd be hard to do him justice without doing the whole Knightfall story, and it's too early in Batman's career for him to be broken, and there's no one to replace him and go psycho.

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Sterling
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Nolan generally seems to be trying to do a Batman who could more or less believeably exist in our world. That pretty much leaves some of the more out-there villains out of the question, barring a considerable amount of tweaking.

I don't mind Penguin as a fixer. He could make for an interesting up-and-comer if we continue with the notion that the criminal world in Gotham is becoming more bizzare and extreme in reaction to Batman; if he's the guy who fills Falcone's shoes, "conventional" organized crime in Gotham is truly on its last legs.

Ivy would definitely require some heavy re-working. But I could see an interesting story if we did away with the "secret plant pheremones that drive men wild" nonsense and made her into an eco-terrorist who Batman simply falls for and finds himself admiring her motives but deploring her methods.

I think Harley Quinn is one of the most interesting characters to come out of the Batman franchise in some time, but she really needs the Joker (and a writer who doesn't take her as a joke.) Unless and until a worthy replacement for Ledger was chosen, I don't think she can be done.

Catwoman is always cool, but it may be too soon after the Halle Berry fiasco.

I've never quite been able to take the Riddler seriously. The most interesting thing I can imagine doing with him is making a villain whose means and methods are entirely non-violent but still sinister and dangerous.

Bane is a great villain (Schumacher's blasphemy aside); I think it's too early in Batman's story to use him, though, and many of Knightfall's story elements fall solidly into the supernatural.

I'm hoping we can avoid Lazarus Pits.

Clayface. Mr. Freeze. No.

And franly, the recent Black Mask storylines have irritated me too much to like the idea of turning a movie over to the character.

I couldn't help but notice that Dark Knight mentioned but carefully concealed Comissioner Gordon's daughter... Possibly so she can be whatever age (and whatever actress) we decide to use if Batgirl exists. And frankly, I could see a Batgirl in Nolan's world a lot more easily than a Robin.

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Juxtapose
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I think Killer Croc could be used both interestingly and plausibly.

EDIT - I wanted to add that I always liked Croc because he struck me as one of Batman's few sane nemeses.

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Puffy Treat
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Killer Croc exists in the Nolan-verse. He can be seen during one of the Gotham Knight segments.
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Sterling:
Nolan generally seems to be trying to do a Batman who could more or less believeably exist in our world.

I'm sorry, but I'm rare agreement with Garth Ennis on this: A realistic, believable Batman would have either died early on or been locked up for good a long, long time ago. [Wink]
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airmanfour
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I'm pretty sure they set up Catwoman for the sequel in The Dark Night...
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mr_porteiro_head
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How?
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Puffy Treat
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How so? Rachel Dawes, Barbara Gordon, and those Russian ballerinas seemed to be the only women in Gotham!
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neo-dragon
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There was the sarcastic remark about his new suit holding up against cats...
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the_Somalian
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Spoiler warning...

But wait a minute...how do we know that Dent is dead?

I'm going to guess that the third film will have Dent as the main villain, and someone else from the rogue gallery as a secondary villain...

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Synesthesia
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Poison Ivy would be cool.

She could wear ivy.

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by the_Somalian:
But wait a minute...how do we know that Dent is dead?

...who said Dent is dead? [Confused]

Goyer originally had Two-Face slated in a treatment for a third film, but later elements of that treatment were folded back into The Dark Knight.

This list is encouraging people to share villains they'd like to see, not making predictions on exactly what the potential third film's plot will be. [Smile]

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the_Somalian
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^All the suggestions seemed to be leaving Dent out of the equation...
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Puffy Treat
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Yes...because I'm asking what other, as of yet un-filmed villains people would like to see. I'm not predicting these will be the only villains.
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Sterling
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quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:
Originally posted by Sterling:
Nolan generally seems to be trying to do a Batman who could more or less believeably exist in our world.

I'm sorry, but I'm rare agreement with Garth Ennis on this: A realistic, believable Batman would have either died early on or been locked up for good a long, long time ago. [Wink]
Eh. The notion of any sort of superhero or supervillain existing and keeping their identity and headquarters secret in the age of CCTV cameras, DNA evidence, and international crime databases seems pretty unlikely.

But the corollary is what I've referred to, in and out of the various incarnations of Batman, as the "Gotham City Syndrome": For some reason there's enough police to chase the vigilante all over the place, but no one to deal with the crime wave that brought out the vigilante in the first place?

Putting aside the much-discussed microwave superweapon, I can find enough suspension of disbelief in myself to credit Nolan's Batman as being an entity that exists in a world I could recognize as a close cousin to the one I live in. Lazarus Pits, plant-human hybrids and the like don't seem to belong to this world.

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the_Somalian
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I reacted to the post before you edited it, PT.
Anyway, in response to the first post: Harvey Dent above all other villains.

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Darth_Mauve
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The Riddler is a serial killer who leaves clues in riddles.

He doesn't need to jump around with a question-mark umbrella and green jammies.

Make the Riddler similar to Hannibal Lechter.

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by the_Somalian:
I reacted to the post before you edited it, PT.
Anyway, in response to the first post: Harvey Dent above all other villains.

But, my first post was asking what (so far) unseen villains you would like to see turn up. Harvey doesn't qualify, we've seen him. He'll probably turn up, as they've already established him as Two-Face. [Smile]

No unseen villains you'd like to get the Nolan treatment?

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth_Mauve:
The Riddler is a serial killer who leaves clues in riddles.

He doesn't need to jump around with a question-mark umbrella and green jammies.

Make the Riddler similar to Hannibal Lechter.

While traditionally the Riddler can be a killer and definitely has sanity issues, I'm not sure he'd work as a serial killer. He's far more obsessed in proving he's the smartest person alive than he is with his actual crimes.
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Enigmatic
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The penguin is briefly seen in Arkham in Batman Begins. I've never found him that interesting of a villain actually, but I liked Burton's take on him. He's at his best when he has one foot in legitimate business or politics and the other foot in a crime empire.

I don't think we need Lazarus pits to have Ra's Al Ghul around because it seemed pretty clear to me that Ra's Al Ghul ("The Demon's Head") is more of a title than a name in the Nolanverse. It's not just subterfuge of hiding who's really in charge, it's also how Ra's is immortal: it's a title that gets passed on over the years.

I can't post my reasoning on who I think is more likely without spoilers, so...

SPOILERS BELOW!!!

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS starting right here so stop reading already - since we have a vacancy in the romantic interest department Talia, Catwoman, or Poison Ivy are possible and Talia is the only one who hasn't been in a prev-gen Batman movie and she fits readily into the world. So Talia could show up and actually be the new Ra's Al Ghul. On the other hand, given where we've left off I think the next "villain" is going to be someone who can be introduced as a vigilante, bounty hunter, or someone hunting the Batman on the side of law. Bane springs to mind readily here, it's easy to change his origin from prison experiment to federal government supersoldier who's going mad with the enhancement drugs and takes the hunt too far. I could also write a decent setup for the Riddler as a brilliant criminologist leading the hunt on a more cerebral level, where he starts powertripping on using the police as pawns in his game against Batman and starts the riddles out of frustration in how the rest of the police just don't get it. Like "You don't see what seems obvious to me, so can you figure it out if I spell it out in rhyme for you?" Could be fun. /END SPOILERS
/END SPOILERS /END SPOILERS

/END

/END

--Enigmatic

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TomDavidson
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If they did Riddler, can you imagine the ARG promos? *laugh*
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Lyrhawn
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I absolutely want Mr. Freeze. Everyone else is meh.

I want the Mr. Freeze from the animated series though, not the ridiculous campy horrible dialogue spewing mess that was Arnold's Mr. Freeze.

I don't know his backstory in the comics, but in TAS, he does what he does originally in order to procure money and technology to help cure his wife, Nora, who is trapped in stasis awaiting a cure for a deadly disease, and Freeze was turned into what he is when they tried to shut down the project keeping her alive. His foundation as a bad guy is a pretty gut wrenching start. Unlike some of the other villains, he never set out to do evil, and maybe of all the villains had the purest intentions. Often even when combating Batman he never really wanted to kill Batman or Robin, he just had a mission and he set about it.

He's my favorite kind of villain; complex and sympathetic. It's why I love Darth Vader so much, and why I liked the bad guy in Hellboy II.

I guess the only other bad guy I'd want to see would be The Riddler, just because I think a dark Riddler, and not the ridiculous one from the original movies could be scary and intriguing. After those two were done, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, maybe Clayface or Catwoman, but at that point my desire for Batman villains would already be sated.

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
The penguin is briefly seen in Arkham in Batman Begins.

We see a fat guy in Arkham. Who said that was the Penguin? (And what would the Penguin be doing in Arkham?)

Goyer and Nolan has refused to give a conclusive answer on the Lazarus Pit/Immortality issue when pressed. I'm thinking they're going to leave it ambiguous, though they have said Ducard was not what he seemed even back when the fake Demon's Head was around.

And speculation is not spoiling, man. Don't rob the term of its meaning. [Big Grin]

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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I absolutely want Mr. Freeze. Everyone else is meh.

I want the Mr. Freeze from the animated series though, not the ridiculous campy horrible dialogue spewing mess that was Arnold's Mr. Freeze.

I don't know his backstory in the comics, but in TAS, he does what he does originally in order to procure money and technology to help cure his wife, Nora, who is trapped in stasis awaiting a cure for a deadly disease, and Freeze was turned into what he is when they tried to shut down the project keeping her alive. His foundation as a bad guy is a pretty gut wrenching start. Unlike some of the other villains, he never set out to do evil, and maybe of all the villains had the purest intentions. Often even when combating Batman he never really wanted to kill Batman or Robin, he just had a mission and he set about it.

He's my favorite kind of villain; complex and sympathetic. It's why I love Darth Vader so much, and why I liked the bad guy in Hellboy II.

The origin of Mister Freeze in the comics was revamped to resemble the Batman: TAS version, except slightly harsher...during his initial fight with Batman, Fries accidentally shatters Nora's body. [Frown]
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
If they did Riddler, can you imagine the ARG promos? *laugh*

Exactly. He's tailor-made for a modern movie publicity campaign.
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Enigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
The penguin is briefly seen in Arkham in Batman Begins.

We see a fat guy in Arkham. Who said that was the Penguin?
I'd have to go doublecheck my dvd to be sure, but iirc the nameplate on his door said "Cobblepot."

quote:
And speculation is not spoiling, man. Don't rob the term of its meaning. [Big Grin]
There are two things in my post that are spoilers for someone who has not yet seen The Dark Knight. They are not spelled out completly explicitly, no, but they are referring to important events in the film currently out, not speculation as to the third. If you don't see what I mean, I'd rather discuss it in the spoiler thread than here.

--Enigmatic

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katharina
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David Tennant would LOVE to play the Riddler
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Dan_raven
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Puffy--I agree.
Enig--I agree.

Picture this Riddler. Professor E. Nigma, criminologist, is hired by the Mayor to track down and unmask Batman and his legion of copy-cats. He is a menace to society, or so the powers that be, believe.

E. Nigma, who has never been stopped before, is stopped this time. In his frustration he goes to greater and greater lengths to find Batman. Finally he creates a homicidal maniac to lure the caped fool into a trap.

The Homicidal Maniac is "The Riddler", leaving tell tale riddles and clues.

As the search for Batman and the search by Batman for "The Riddler" goes on, a wonderful mental dance is played.

The unmasking begins at a posh benefit where both Mr. Wayne and Doctor Nigma meet and leave the same subtle hints they always leave for the less intelligent, laughing at their inability to discover the masks they are wearing in public.

Only they both start to suspect the other, picking up on the others hints. A duel of questions and answers begin. "Dr. Nigma, I know you are here about this bat boy, but have you considered the more murderous Riddler." asks Bruce.

"Oh yes, I have given the police the benefit of my wisdom on this lunatic Riddler. Genius no doubt, but mad, quite mad. But he is still nothing, a lone deranged madman, versus the terror that this Batman has become."

And so they joust back and forth, dressed in the finest tuxes, surrounded by the clueless elites. Each then returns to their bunkers, and start planning the public unmasking of the other.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I absolutely want Mr. Freeze. Everyone else is meh.

I want the Mr. Freeze from the animated series though, not the ridiculous campy horrible dialogue spewing mess that was Arnold's Mr. Freeze.

I don't know his backstory in the comics, but in TAS, he does what he does originally in order to procure money and technology to help cure his wife, Nora, who is trapped in stasis awaiting a cure for a deadly disease, and Freeze was turned into what he is when they tried to shut down the project keeping her alive. His foundation as a bad guy is a pretty gut wrenching start. Unlike some of the other villains, he never set out to do evil, and maybe of all the villains had the purest intentions. Often even when combating Batman he never really wanted to kill Batman or Robin, he just had a mission and he set about it.

He's my favorite kind of villain; complex and sympathetic. It's why I love Darth Vader so much, and why I liked the bad guy in Hellboy II.

The origin of Mister Freeze in the comics was revamped to resemble the Batman: TAS version, except slightly harsher...during his initial fight with Batman, Fries accidentally shatters Nora's body. [Frown]
Damn, that's cold.

That I wouldn't want to happen if they made him into a new movie. I like the idea of him fighting for her even if he's doing it the wrong way. Even in the episodes after Nora is healed and moves on with her life (sans Fries) I think despite the fact that he has a vendetta against Batman, deep down he knows he's just hurt and still doesn't really want to kill anyone.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
David Tennant would LOVE to play the Riddler

Oh please oh yes oh please oh yes PLEASE PLEASE PLEAAAAAAAASE!!!!!
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Joldo
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So far all the villains have been (for want of a better word) very psychological. Joker is the mad dog. Scarecrow is all about fear. Harvey Dent is this duality, the good and bad in a person.

So which of them really compare? Maybe Catwoman, as some twisted sexuality, but that's sorta lacking. Also the problem that she's been mined to death. Who can you really put in that's both interesting and can be used meaningfully?

Besides, the villains of the batman movies are almost cooler or more interesting than the hero. Sure, Scarecrow and Rhas were almost boring in Batman Begins, but The Dark Knight shows villains that really and truly draw you in and stick with you. You can't go with bargain basement madness like Bane or silly tricks like the Riddler and expect to come close.

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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
David Tennant would LOVE to play the Riddler

And my man-crush just got a whole lot bigger.

And as far at the Penguin in Arkham, it would make sense with the original movie Penguin, but not the comic. Cobblepot was never insane, so if he was imprisoned he'd be at one of Gotham's normal prisons.

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Dagonee
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Ah, but in the original movie, sane prisoners were getting shuffled off to Arkham by paying off the mob. So there would be no contradiction there.
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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagonee:
Ah, but in the original movie, sane prisoners were getting shuffled off to Arkham by paying off the mob. So there would be no contradiction there.

Touche'!
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Dagonee
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I'd love to think whoever decided to put "Cobblepot" on that door was thinking about that at the time.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
If they did Riddler, can you imagine the ARG promos? *laugh*

Exactly. He's tailor-made for a modern movie publicity campaign.
I'd give my right arm for a crack at creating that.

OK, maybe not my right arm. My left one, though...

Bah, lost cause. I know who did the current campaign, and I imagine they'll get it again the next time.

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mr_porteiro_head
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What's an ARG promo?
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JennaDean
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Ooh, David Tennant as the Riddler would actually entice me to go see a Batman movie.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
What's an ARG promo?

"ARG" stands for "Alternate Reality Game".

The "Dark Knight ARG" information could be found here:

http://batman.wikibruce.com/

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FlyingCow
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned Azrael. I think a Christopher Nolan treatment would be great.
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagonee:
I'd love to think whoever decided to put "Cobblepot" on that door was thinking about that at the time.

The thing is, Nolan has said we haven't seen the Penguin yet and he doesn't feel the character may fit his version of Batman. So I'm thinking that was more of an Easter egg...kind of like the ad for the "Iceberg Lounge" in the online Gotham Times. A nod to the fans, but not conclusive. [Smile]
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Damn, that's cold.

That I wouldn't want to happen if they made him into a new movie. I like the idea of him fighting for her even if he's doing it the wrong way. Even in the episodes after Nora is healed and moves on with her life (sans Fries) I think despite the fact that he has a vendetta against Batman, deep down he knows he's just hurt and still doesn't really want to kill anyone.

Dini and Timm justified Fries remaining a villain after Nora was healed by having poor Victor lose his head. Or rather, his body. He then decided he wouldn't kill anyone, but he would make everyone suffer a loss similar to his, by destroying what they most loved. *shudder*
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
There are two things in my post that are spoilers for someone who has not yet seen The Dark Knight. They are not spelled out completly explicitly, no, but they are referring to important events in the film currently out, not speculation as to the third. If you don't see what I mean, I'd rather discuss it in the spoiler thread than here.


One spoiler is referred to vaguely enough I that I think you're actually spoiler-free on that count. The other I think has already been strongly hinted at by the promotional stuff, but your mileage may vary.
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by FlyingCow:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Azrael. I think a Christopher Nolan treatment would be great.

Why be surprised? Azrael was solely a meta-plot character, created solely so the editor-in-chief of the Bat-comics could give those 1990s comics fans who wanted an X-TREME KILLER Batman a "Take That!"

When the plot ended, he vanished, his purpose served.

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0Megabyte
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Puffy: You look at tvtropes too, huh? It seems to be growing more popular. [Big Grin]
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