posted
Ok... so, to give the above question some context...
I work security at a local family theme park. That's Gilroy Gardens Family Theme Park, if you're anywhere near the area. Anyway, we have a rather strict policy on outside food. That is, you can't bring any in. This is posted at the ticket booths, on the walls of the entrance plaza, and is repeatedly affirmed by any staff personnel you happen to ask.
But the guests just don't get it. They don't understand why they can't bring food in; they don't even really care. All they want to do is to come in with their own disgustingly large portions of food and stuff their faces. Who cares if a good deal of our revenue is derived from park-based food sales? We certainly don't get that much from admissions, as regular tickets are essentially season passes.
So instead of coming up to us and admitting that they are in the wrong, they will do anything, say anything, to get their food into our park. You'd think that half the world's population has "special dietary needs" that consists of a diet of highly-processed and commercialized foodstuffs. What do you mean we can't bring in our McDonald's? Our kids won't eat anything else!
Really, though. There's no way that this many people can be restricted to "special diets".
But what really irks me is that this is showing me that a good 90% of the population consists of individuals who will lie to your face without a moment's notice. That really disturbs me.
Posts: 292 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I've always felt that, as far as following rules, people fall into three categories: 1) Those who obey all rules, because they believe in rules, and, if they disagree, will go through the system to get something changed. 2) Those who look at the supposed purpose of the rule, and if they agree with the (perceived) purpose, will comply, but if not, will ignore or work around the rule. these people will obey rules that seem based on morals (i.e., behaving well towards individuals) but often ignore rules based on behaving well towards entities like government, businesses, or any organization they see as being able to absorb a little inconvenience. 3) Those who object to the concept of rules, and rebel against anything systematic.
I think most people fall into the second category, and I think people coming into the park think, "This is a faceless bureaucratic rule designed to sap more money out of me. The rule is not based on kindness towards others or anything else that makes me feel bad, so I have no obligation to obey it."
I don't think these people come up with an elaborate plan to avoid the rule, but they assume that trying to get around it should be fine, and they lie when confronted because they didn't actually expect to be confronted. You aren't a faceless entity (I assume), you're a person, so they thought you'd be on their side, and ignore any food you saw them bringing in. By not ignoring it, you become not a person anymore. You're one of "them" the people with rules, so you can be ignored, lied to, or treated rudely.
Honestly, it reminds me of an unspoken agreement in my high school. Officially, students weren't allowed any food, ever anywhere but the cafeteria. Most teachers didn't care if you ate in class as long as you weren't messy, so the unspoken compromise was: so long as you pretend to be hiding your food from the teacher, they will pretend not to see you chewing, and you won't get in trouble--two individuals tacitly agreeing to undermine rules put in place by a faceless entity.
Posts: 368 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I may point out that the people that you *catch* may consist of 90% liars. The people that you *don't* catch may very well belong to a different distribution
Also, you'll find the same behavior at movie theatres.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I follow the spirit of a lawful society, if not the letter of a litigious one. Or something. I jaywalk, trespass, set off illegal fireworks, drink out of open containers in cars, tag public property with stickers, sneak into private pools for residential divisions and bring my friends, drink absinthe with thujone, baldly walk into movie theaters without paying, speed, make illegal u-turns, aid and abet pot smokers, and probably a host of other things.
But at the same time, I follow a sort of a 'don't lie, cheat, or steal' rule and it has made my life really confusing because people are astoundingly reliant on little white lies. And I can't pirate games.
But seriously, about the part where people are reliant on lies? My god. When I forced myself to quit all lies I found out how dependent people usually are on harmless telling-people-what-they-want-to-hear lies to keep things comfortable, like in situations where you're just fudging a response, like saying 'no, no, I don't mind' when you really do. I have had to use very specific phrases like 'I don't feel like commenting on that.'
90% of people being liars is an impossibly conservative estimate. Very very few people never actually lie.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I definitely fall into Hank's category 2. My local movie theatre bans outside food yet I "smuggle" food in nearly every time I go. They charge outrageous prices for popcorn and drinks and I see no reason to let myself get raped for cash just because I want a little snack.
Posts: 1327 | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Movie theaters are in a difficult spot, because they don't make any substantive amount of money from ticket sales; the tickets are where the movie studios make their money. The theater's income is from the concession stand. It's a really unusual business, because one area of operation, snack sales, has to generate enough money to pay for several other aspects of the operation, which generate no income.
I think most people understand that this is the case.
But it really is pretty rotten the way some people -- not most -- but some -- will behave when it comes to this issue.
One particular instance springs to mind, when I was working in a movie theater as a manager, and a foursome arrived carrying Wendy's sacks and drinking frosties. I very politely told the guy who handed me the ticket, "I'm sorry sir, but we don't allow outside food and drink. You're welcome to finish your food in the lobby if you would like."
"What am I supposed to do with all this food?"
"Well, you could finish it before you go in, or leave it in your car."
"I just bought this, now you're going to make me late for the movie?"
"I don't wish to make you late, but you just can't bring in outside food, I'm sorry."
So they go back into the lobby and talk for a few minutes, after which the women both come past to go to the restroom. The men go over and hand the food across the poster cases, which the women hide in their purses. Then they go into the auditorium with the hidden food. A few minutes later the men come by.
One of them is still drinking his frosty. He walks by me, gives me a shoulder-bump, and ignores me as I say, "Sir? Sir...?"
It's baffling to me why he thought I wouldn't just go in and kick him out. Perhaps he thought he had sufficiently intimidated me. So of course I have someone else cover the podium, go into the theater, where the four are sitting there just munching away on their hamburgers and shakes, oblivious to my presence...
"Will the four of you please come with me?"
The shoulder-bump guy goes, "No. I'll go with you. These guys aren't going anywhere. Your beef is with me, not with them." It looks as though he wants to fight me.
"I'm afraid I need everyone," I say, frowning.
I bring them all out to the lobby.
I say, "Well, I'm going to have to ask you to leave."
The women start going, "What? Just because we brought in our food? This is ridiculous."
"I think I gave fair warning," I say.
"What kind of mickey mouse place is this?"
"I think it's a pretty good place. We just don't allow outside food and drink."
I can't imagine the degree of self-justification that goes on with some people. No doubt they left thinking they were the heroes in some story, and I had wronged them horribly, that I was some kind of rule-clinging bureacrat....
Why don't people, if they don't want to pay the high price of snacks in movie theaters, just eat before they go to the movies?
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:My local movie theatre bans outside food yet I "smuggle" food in nearly every time I go. They charge outrageous prices for popcorn and drinks and I see no reason to let myself get raped for cash just because I want a little snack.
They have to charge those prices. They're not gouging you; the whole operation is dependant upon snack sales. Snack sales don't just pay for the guy selling the snacks, they also pay for the people selling tickets, the people cleaning theaters, the projectionists, the power bill, equipment repairs, etc. etc. etc.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Well, it's a matter of feeling obligated and being obligated, or neither. As far as I can tell, the situation is neither in this case, since the majority of people ignore the rule. I define being obligated as general social pressure.
Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
While I'm not advocating noncompliance, I think the rules about snacks in movie theaters and theme parks are just plain mercantilism. They offer junky, synthetic "food" and declare a monopoly. I've never eaten in a theater for years. Their formula is to stuff the halls with popcorn with a special mixture I like to call "I Can't Believe People Think That's Butter!" that smells overwhelmingly tempting, but tastes like a soggy wadded up Kleenex. Not to mention it costs a fortune for anything on the concession stands.
My father told me that when he was growing up movie theaters had the best popcorn anywhere. See, I'd be willing to start eating in theaters again if they offered something that at least tastes good. It's hard enough to swallow the fact that their ticket prices are going the way of gasoline.
Posts: 1029 | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Theater food and drink rules are also frustrating for those of us who don't have cars (to stash stuff in) and like to chain errands. I can't go to the grocery store before seeing a movie, because they're worried I'll eat my loaf of bread and bag of apples and whatnot. Likewise going to dinner first and taking home leftovers is tricky unless I can fit them in my purse or tuck them under my coat.
The end result is I don't see movies often. If theaters really make all their money off concession sales, though, I guess that's okay with them, since I don't like eating anything while I'm watching movies.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: While I'm not advocating noncompliance, I think the rules about snacks in movie theaters and theme parks are just plain mercantilism.
No, actually, they are plain capitalism. Confucius he say, you no like, you no have to buy. Mercantilism is when you have to buy.
Socialism, on the other hand, is what you get when movie theaters are subsidised, as in Norway. Which leads to having fewer theaters, roughly the same ticket prices as here, and you can bring in whatever outside food you like. And, of course, pay more in taxes. Pay your money and take your choice.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
As far as I'm concerned, without a notice visible before I buy the tickets - which is not present at any of the theaters I go to regularly - adding on a "no outside food" rider after the tickets are bought is bait and switch.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: All they want to do is to come in with their own disgustingly large portions of food and stuff their faces. Who cares if a good deal of our revenue is derived from park-based food sales?
Perhaps if you were to reduce your prices, compliance would improve? As it stands, I imagine people mainly sneak food into your park for the same reason that they sneak food into theaters: it's ridiculously overpriced, lacking in variety, and probably of fairly low quality. The perception of value is low enough that they don't feel any degree of loyalty to your -- let's face it -- arbitrary and self-serving restrictions.
IMO, dramatically inflating the margins of one optional service in order to cover the losses of your primary service is just asking for trouble, whether you're a theater or a theme park or an oil change place.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
It looks like the park is the one who is lying.
The cost of admission does not cover the expense of the admission. So, they lie about the cost of admission and then go to great artificial lengths to pretend that it is against some principle for people to bring their own food.
Raise the cost of admission and let current practice which is clearly working for your customers continue. Have food on hand for those who don't want to bother.
That would be better for a park than for a movie theatre, because people can live without getting food for themselves during the course of a movie. But for someone to bring the family all day to an amusement park and then not allow them bring food? That isn't the difference of ten bucks - considering the cost of a single meal and then multiply that by two and then by six, it would have been the difference of over a hundred dollars for my family. That is too much money for park owners to get mad about people not wanting to spend it.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I never buy food at the movie theatre. Nor do I bring it in. I willingly pay $20 a ticket at a film festival where people are there to see the movie, not to munch on popcorn.
I agree with the people who said that your park should raise their prices to a level where you're not relying on people to buy food to get enough revenue. That doesn't mean that you have to allow people to bring in food, but it means that people are paying for what they're getting, and then paying more reasonable prices for food. People are smuggling in food because the food is so expensive. Knock a dollar off all the food prices and add a dollar fifty to the tickets and you'll probably see slightly fewer people smuggling in food.
Often park food is limited, and I know you're saying that people are smuggling in MacDonalds, but often park food is like bad sandwiches and hot dogs. I'd be more willing to buy food if the food was more varied and edible.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Movie theater concessions fall into a vicious cycle. Less people go to the movies these days, so less people buy concessions, so they raise prices. More people get disgusted at the high prices, so less go to the movies, they raise the concession prices higher...
It doesn't help that many of major movie theater chains I've gone to use popcorn that isn't anywhere near as good as the kind I can pop at home. Add in the pee-smelling, upset-stomach inducing artificial butter and I usually just have lunch or supper before going to the movie.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
We went to a local water park yesterday. It cost over $150 to get my family in. This isn't Disney World, it's just the local Adventure Landing. And it is a lot of fun, but the cost is the reason we don't go to this park even once a year.
The food prices were so high it would've cost us approximately $48 just for lunch. We chose not to pay that much, so they got $0 from us for lunch. If the prices had been more reasonable, we probably would've just stayed there for lunch, and they would've gotten $30 more from us. Their loss. And our loss too, because we had to leave when we got hungry instead of staying to enjoy the park longer.
I completely understand the desire to sneak food in when you feel like if you follow the rules, you're being cheated either way - either you have to leave to eat, so you're cheated out of part of the fun you paid for, or you're cheated out of an exorbitant amount of money for mediocre food. It's like, either they cheat me, or I'll cheat them. Which do you think most people would choose? I tend to follow the rules, and it grates on my nerves when people just blatantly flaunt them, but I certainly understand why.
I agree with those who said "charge what you need to for tickets, and then charge what you need to for food."
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: IMO, dramatically inflating the margins of one optional service in order to cover the losses of your primary service is just asking for trouble, whether you're a theater or a theme park or an oil change place.
Agreed.
And speaking as someone who actually does have "special dietary needs", I will bring food in with me. Otherwise, we don't get a lunch, and when we're talking all day at a park, that's not ok.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Now I'm imagining the haunted house ride at Kosherland, where riders are treated to a scene of stomach-churning horror as a piece of roast beef is slowly wrapped around a cheesestick.... Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
"Don't worry, honey, it's not real. The meat is really soy!"
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Considering how muc movie theatres and parks gouge us out of our money through your horribly overpriced and under served food do you honestly expect anything else!? I routinely smuggle Costco wholesaler sized packages of junk into theatres rather then buy something costing ten times more for 10 times less.
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First, I'll freely admit that I am one who often flouts business models. In other words, if a theatre charges an unreasonable amount of money for food, I'll bring my own food. If an inkjet company charges too much for ink, I'll get my own ink. If a North American company "locks" my GSM phones and wants to charge ludicrous amounts of money for international calls, I'll let China Mobile install a new SIM card and "unlock" the phone. If in the unfortunate circumstance that I am on a shuttle bus that is subsidized by ads for a hotel, or a bus tour that is subsidized by an unannounced stop at a "jade factory", I'll make sure to buy nothing. If I find myself at a souvenir stand whose business model is to rip off the rich foreigner while giving the real price to natives, I'll freely (attempt to) bargain down to the real price with no remorse.
I'm not making a moral argument here, I'm just noting that this is how I'll behave. I'll attempt to avoid hurting anyone's feelings by avoiding confrontations and avoiding lying, although it will be near-impossible in the last two cases.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
I don't bring food into movie theaters, nor do I buy food at movie theaters, because I can't hear the movie while I'm chewing. I don't really understand how other people feel they can fully enjoy a movie while they're crunching popcorn (or crinkling candy wrappers). I understand that movie theaters don't make a profit from ticket prices and that if they didn't sell refreshments they wouldn't stay in business -- and I'd be willing to buy their overpriced food if only they sold anything that was (a) healthy and (b) quiet.
I recently went to an amusement park and brought in some grapes and carrots to munch on, correctly assuming that the amusement park's concessions stands would be devoid of fruits and vegetables of any kind.
Posts: 1785 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:But the guests just don't get it. They don't understand why they can't bring food in; they don't even really care.
In my experience, most Americans have no compunction to follow rules they don't understand or consider to be unfair. You are right, they don't understand. They have no idea about the finances of a theme park. They have no idea what it cost to build and maintain and operate rides.
What they do know, is the $41.99 a piece is a lot of money for most families. Since they
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
My mom's rule of thumb was always to assume that food would cost as much as the ticket to the park. I guess since we'd anticipated the extra cost ahead of time, it never bothered us much.
As for food, my last vacation was to the Lowrey Park Zoo where I had a very nice salad and yogurt for lunch. We did mess up by not having enough cash for the drink machines scattered around the back of the zoo, though. Last time we went to Disney, I seem to recall having a veggie burger and something else reasonably healthy. Epcot's bring up memories of a giant baked potato. Wild Adventures I'm associating with less healthy fare, but I don't know if that was all that was available or just what I happened to be in the mood for.
Maybe it's just that Disney is awesome, but I don't get the fuss over park food.
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
DisneyWorld park food was pretty good, of course, the last time I was there was 17 years ago. Hard Rock Park in Myrtle Beach has surprisingly good food, fresh-cooked, high-quality. In general, though, the food thing is a little annoying. I never eat anything at the movies, but it's a big pain to have to at least go all the way back to your car to eat at amusement parks, unless you want the usual overcooked/processed stuff.
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: First, I'll freely admit that I am one who often flouts business models. If in the unfortunate circumstance that I am on a shuttle bus that is subsidized by ads for a hotel, or a bus tour that is subsidized by an unannounced stop at a "jade factory", I'll make sure to buy nothing. If I find myself at a souvenir stand whose business model is to rip off the rich foreigner while giving the real price to natives, I'll freely (attempt to) bargain down to the real price with no remorse.
I'm not making a moral argument here, I'm just noting that this is how I'll behave. I'll attempt to avoid hurting anyone's feelings by avoiding confrontations and avoiding lying, although it will be near-impossible in the last two cases.
Come now Mucus. You and I both know that prices at most knick knack shops in China are intentionally inflated, not so that merchants can rip off foreigners, though that is a bonus, but because nothing should ever be purchased without a friendly or even sometimes heated debate about the fair price. Everyone in China knows this, so it's not really lying.
I remember once bargaining for a friend who wanted to buy a necklace for his girlfriend but he did not have the Chinese vocabulary to effectively bargain for what he was willing to pay. After a pretty tough negotiation the shop keeper agreed to the price and my friend promptly said he was no longer interested in the necklace. I felt exceedingly embarrassed to have to turn to her and tell her that I was backing out of our exchange. That to me is far worse than lying about a price.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote: What they do know, is the $41.99 (price from the website) a piece is a lot of money for most families. Since they
I guess I should finish that thought.
Since they know nothing about real expense of running an amusement park (or a movie theater), they feel like they are being gauged for the entrance fee and then gauged again for food once they get inside. Since they think your rules are designed to cheat them, they don't feel like its dishonest to break your rules.
Try putting up a large sign at the entrance that explains honestly what the park is doing. Something like
{quote] We are able to offer you a season pass for the same price as one day entrance because our rides and other attractions are partially subsidized by food sales inside the park. You are welcome to enjoy all our parks attraction even if you choose not to eat inside the park, but we ask that you follow our rule and not bring food purchased elsewhere into the park. If you don't, you will be asked to leave the park. Thank you for helping us continue to provide affordable family entertainment.[/quote]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
When I go to the movies I just buy a drink. Popcorn for $6 is way to expensive (gotta have money to buy games.) Popcorn is too loud, I sometimes sneak in some chocolate If you suck on it it doesn't make a sound.
When going to a theme park, I completely forget the money in my pocket is all I have, I play every game at least once. I am completely fooled by the simple looking games last time I was at six flags I whent there with $120 and I left with a superman cape and an empty pocket Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Auto repair has a similar built-in lie. It's called "flat rate pricing."
That is, there is a rate, given in hours, as to how much a particular service costs. So your brake job will take 1.5 hours, the 30K service will take 2.7 hours, replacing the bad bearing in your left rear wheel will take .6 hours. It's 4:30 now, can you come pick up your car at 6:00 PM?
The "flat rate" comes from a book, and there are very few mechanics that use it as an estimation tool, which was how it was originally intended. The flip side of flat rate is that if you quote the customer a 1.2 hour job, and it takes all day, the mechanic only gets paid 1.2 hours. When I was a mechanic, I was told that to be a "class A" mechanic, I was expected to turn in 60 flat rate hours in a 40 hour week. That's just the way it was.
And similar to what some here are arguing, I think the lie can be removed without really changing the mechanism. Just tell the customer "the labor will be $620," instead of quoting them the time to do the job.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
It goes without saying, I'm sure -- but sneaking in food to movie theaters has basically the same effect as shoplifting; the business has to charge everyone else more to offset the cost of your dishonesty.
I always get aggravated when this subject comes up, because people just flat-out, with no evidence to the contrary, simply refuse to believe the truth. Or they choose to deny it so they can continue to keep up the self-justification.
quote:As far as I'm concerned, without a notice visible before I buy the tickets - which is not present at any of the theaters I go to regularly - adding on a "no outside food" rider after the tickets are bought is bait and switch.
I would be willing to bet, dollars to donuts, that if you looked for such a sign, you would see one. I go to theaters at least twice a week, and in the city where I live, (which is Salt Lake, for the record) every movie theater I attend (except for the art-houses, which are part of a non-profit group) has signs posted at the box office window, at the ticket podium, and they often have signs on the glass of the doors as well. Yet people always bring in outside food and drink, and act absolutely mystified when they are told it is not allowed. The signs are there. Most people don't notice them, as they are not looking for them -- but they are almost certainly there.
quote:IMO, dramatically inflating the margins of one optional service in order to cover the losses of your primary service is just asking for trouble, whether you're a theater or a theme park or an oil change place.
In general I would agree that it would be bad practice for most businesses, but movie theaters have no other option; that is the business model. There is not an alternative model.
It didn't have to end up this way -- I can imagine a thousand different ways for theaters and studios to make money -- but this is the way it ended up. The studios make the money from ticket sales. It would be neat to see them give the theater a higher percentage of ticket income -- say 40% -- so the theaters could offset their other costs. But the studios would never do that. Where would they make up the difference?
They have movie theaters in a corner, because as more and more viable alternative methods of delivery become available, the studios need the theaters less and less. So the movie theaters have no bargaining chip to force a change.
Which, of course, is why stereoscopic 3D will be the absolute savior of the movie theater as a for-profit business...
But that's several years away from being the normal, mainstream method of releasing films.
I'm just saying: it's all very well and good to be wary, but one cannot deny the practical reality of the situation.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TL: It goes without saying, I'm sure -- but sneaking in food to movie theaters has basically the same effect as shoplifting; the business has to charge everyone else more to offset the cost of your dishonesty.
Right, because this is the same as theft.
I rarely bring food to theaters -- but I never buy anything there. So apparently those of us who simply choose not to buy food (but also don't bring any) are also cheating the theater? Give me a break.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TL: I'm just saying: it's all very well and good to be wary, but one cannot deny the practical reality of the situation.
But one certainly can refuse to buy into it.
As I said, I don't buy food in theaters. In fact, I rarely watch movies in theaters, and this is actually one of the reasons why. Convenience and scheduling is a bigger issue, but this is a contributing factor.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I still feel that the rule is invalid due to the lack of social pressure, therefore there is no obligation to follow it. Just my humble opinion, of course.
By the way, on the topic of ridiculous prices, I went to the theatre and it cost 20 bucks a ticket! How is that possible? I haven't been to the movies in a long time, so I wonder if this has been going on for a while, is a new phenomenon, or is just in England?
Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2006
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I rarely bring food to theaters -- but I never buy anything there. So apparently those of us who simply choose not to buy food (but also don't bring any) are also cheating the theater? Give me a break
*sigh*
I didn't say anything remotely like that. Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:But the studios would never do that. Where would they make up the difference?
So movie theaters need to settle on a value-add that isn't obvious scalping. What can they offer filmgoers that's better than the filmgoers can get at home?
(One obvious but tongue-in-cheek answer: free childcare during the movie. *grin* )
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I absolutely never buy food at the theater. But then I don't have to worry about that, as the theater I go to allows outside food and drink. They also only charge $4.75 Mon-Thurs, so we go there exclusively now. It's a pretty nice theater in a pretty nice neighborhood (by no means as good as the really fancy pants theater one city over that has the stadium style seating and plush seats that costs three times as much) and we go there almost exclusively. We only go to the fancy pants theater for really big movies.
I don't really consider it dishonest. I'm sorry but, I have absolutely zero intention of buying the food at the theater, it just isn't going to happen, so I don't feel bad bringing in my own food. If they brought the prices down, I'd buy it. It seems like a vicious cycle where they raise the price, and people stop buying, so they have to raise the price even more to make up for the loss of revenue, but people continue to stop buying. If they lowered the price and raised the quality, a lot more people would buy.
Disneyworld I found last summer had a fantastic array of high and low quality food for customers. I really was quite amazed at both the price and the quality of the food there. I loved those little Mickey ear Dove bars.
I'll say more later, I have to go. I like this thread. The different reasonings and points of view are fascinating.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by JonHecht: I still feel that the rule is invalid due to the lack of social pressure, therefore there is no obligation to follow it. Just my humble opinion, of course.
By the way, on the topic of ridiculous prices, I went to the theatre and it cost 20 bucks a ticket! How is that possible? I haven't been to the movies in a long time, so I wonder if this has been going on for a while, is a new phenomenon, or is just in England?
You didn't pay 20$, you paid 10 quid. People here get paid in pounds, and they pay in pounds. Not dollars. It's a mental shift that takes a while to make. Some things here aren't bad when you compare, like groceries. Most other things, like restaurant food, clothing, and movie tickets, cost about the same as we'd expect in North America, but the currency is pounds.
As to the main point of the thread, I almost never buy food at the theatre. Occasionally when I'm jonesing for popcorn and it's a special occasion I will, but that's about it. I almost always bring a bottle of tap water with me. I won't buy bottled water anywhere if I can avoid it, so why would I buy it at the theatre?
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Come now Mucus. You and I both know that prices at most knick knack shops in China are intentionally inflated, not so that merchants can rip off foreigners, though that is a bonus, but because nothing should ever be purchased without a friendly or even sometimes heated debate about the fair price. Everyone in China knows this, so it's not really lying.
I respectfully submit that it is a question of terminology. In the end, the result is that people unfamiliar with a fair price for goods in the area will end up paying a lot more until they are familiar.
Again, not making a moral argument (in some cases one could almost argue that foreigners "should" pay more) but the main point was about subverting business models. In this case, the souvenir stand guy's standard of living and "business model" may very well depend on charging foreigners twice as much as locals, but I feel no particular urge to oblige. Same with theatres and their really.
As for lying, well, I think they are just white lies, but yes they are expected.
No, the guy is not offering you a "special price." No, you're not "really" leaving but you may as well try to get a lower price when they call you back. *shrug*
quote: That to me is far worse than lying about a price.
I admit that is my general principle when bargaining. Feel free to lie about your background, your budget, your intentions about how much you like it, but when you settle on a price, that should be it.
Edit to add: But sometimes, I also find it hard to judge other people that do otherwise.
It can be tough making moral calls with such a big income disparity, some pretty big pseudo-scams, and so forth. It is perhaps easier to make moral calls back here in North America.
It probably comes as no surprise that I feel no particular need to explain why my position is different than some other totally exaggerated position made up to put me on the defensive.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:But the studios would never do that. Where would they make up the difference?
So movie theaters need to settle on a value-add that isn't obvious scalping. What can they offer filmgoers that's better than the filmgoers can get at home?
Yeah. I'd buy movie theater popcorn if it wasn't (for the most part) inferior to the popcorn I can make at home. Heck, most of it's inferior to the el-cheapo microwave popcorn I can get out of the vending machine at work.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
*shrug* Fine. I didn't "make it up to put you on the defensive"; I honestly do not see the difference between the two situations, from the perspective of the theater's business model. Either way, you have people who are paying for a ticket and not one penny more.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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But I never have proposed that the purpose of a movie theater is ONLY to sell snacks; the purpose of the theater is to show movies. That's what gets us in the door. It's all about movies, moreso than it is about snacks -- but unfortunately the theaters _must_ sell all the snacks they can, otherwise there's no money to continue selling movies.
Given that the purpose a movie theater is to show movies, it would be beyond preposterous to say that people who buy tickets but don't buy snacks -- who utilize the theater for its intended purpose -- aee hurting the theater.
However, when you sneak in outside food and drink, you are still eating a snack -- a snack that, had you bought it from the thearer, would have generated money; so you are utilizing the theater for a secondary intended profit-generating purpose, but you are not paying the theater to do so.
It is not exactly the same thing as shop-lifting. There are clear differences; it's probably closer to theft of services, though it's not exactly that, either. Ultimately, though, it *does* have a similar effect -- which is that the theater lost money it otherwise would have made.
Any way you slice it, I think that when you sneak outside food into a place that primarily makes its income from selling food, after they have been very clear and (Chances are) polite in asking you not to do it, you are being dishonest.
The effect is not identical to theft, because you are not taking away something that they physically owned, but it is similar, because your activity causes them not to gain revenue they otherwise might have.
This is obvious to me.
I'm sure others will see it differently.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
*ETA: TL, I didn't see your last post before I made this one.
I think the problem was in equating bringing in food with shoplifting. Here's the problem: Bringing in outside food isn't stealing from anyone. They've paid for the food and they've paid for permission to sit in the theater and watch the movie. It's not taking money or merchandise from the theater. It's just not giving them any more money than the cost of the ticket. And since no one is compelled to give them any more money than what the ticket costs, it's not by any stretch of the imagination "stealing".
In a movie theater, you can just choose not to eat for those 2-3 hours. It's more likely that people in an amusement park would buy the food if they can't bring in outside food, because they're there longer. But it's also more likely to make them feel trapped and cheated, and people who feel trapped and cheated are going to feel more justified in breaking the rules.
Imagine you're Joe Public. Happy Fun Park advertises that it costs $50 for admission. You budget your money and think, "Well, it's expensive, but if we brown-bag it, we might be able to afford to go." And then you get there and you're told you have to either spend more money to eat (and WAY more money than you would spend for lunch outside the park), or cut your visit short. Can you really not see that that's dishonest on the part of the park? And if that's the case, if the public feels cheated, they're not going to have any qualms about cheating back. In their minds, they're just refusing to allow the park to steal from them.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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