1. As far as Joe goes, I don't hold anything against him so far as his actual status as an unlicensed plumber; I don't care. I do however think it was a little rude for McCain to try and score some points off this guy without bothering to check him out to see if such attention shined on him would prove embarassing, as it turns out is the case. He should have known about the plumber thing and the taxes, if for no other reason than Joe's dirty laundry isn't all over CNN and MSNBC.
2. That was a fairly classy answer from Obama. Obama could probably tell that guy just wasn't going to vote for him regardless, but he still talked to him, explained his plan, then explained why he thought it was a good idea, he let the guy call him a socialist, and then went on his merry way. Well done.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I'm sympathetic to the need to protect the privacy of individuals, especially those who are not public figures. He has also appeared on national morning talk shows since then, so I think it's appropriate to do some fact-checking now that he has assented to being in the public eye. [Not that this means everything is fair game, of course. But that fact that he is registered as Republican is suitable to note, as he was being presented otherwise in places. Also relevant is that he was wrong about his hypothetical circumstance leading to an increased tax burden in the way he supposed.]
Noemon, that particular statement about priorities spoke to me, as well.
I thought this was McCain's best debate experience to date. He certainly came out very strong to start with.
quote:2. That was a fairly classy answer from Obama. Obama could probably tell that guy just wasn't going to vote for him regardless, but he still talked to him, explained his plan, then explained why he thought it was a good idea, he let the guy call him a socialist, and then went on his merry way. Well done.
Agreed.
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Edited to add: My favorite quotation about the "Joe the Plumber" phenomenon isn't about this particular Joe.
quote:On Thursday, the president of the Plumbing-Heating-Cooling Contractors – National Association (PHCC) released a statement “applauding the efforts of both presidential candidates for their focus on plumbing contractors during the presidential debate on Wednesday night.” -- from The Globe and Mail
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He was lying, not posing a hypothetical question. He chose to enter the public spotlight in order to try and "prove" something on national TV that would help his chosen candidate win an election.
He was wrong as well as dishonest, and he got caught. SInce McCain didn't hesitate to use him to garner votes, I have no issue with the fallout attaching to him as well.
Keep in mind that I would not have an issue if a similar thing happened to Obama either. If you employ Rush-quality fact checkers you deserve to be lambasted for it.
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I find the way McCain has been behaving very sad. I think Lyr is right on about him not being comfortable with what he's doing-- and I think it shows. Six years ago I really respected McCain, for the most part. Four years ago he still had a large measure of my respect. It's been downhill since he got into the presidential race. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I only watched a little bit of the debates-- I thought Obama did well, and Mccain did poorly.
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Keep in mind that I would not have an issue if a similar thing happened to Obama either. If you employ Rush-quality fact checkers you deserve to be lambasted for it.
This is just yet another symptom of McCain's hubris and ego when dealing with actually *talking* to the American people. I don't see Obama sitting up there and pulling out cute stories, or if I do see that, his anecdotal comments are never so definitive or declamatory as McCain's. I see it as going further than style of speech- I think McCain feels justified by these anecdotes, and I think it shows the way he thinks, selectively targeting the possible failures of the opposition, and, essentially, promoting the idea of inaction, or intentionally hindering the process of change. Most importantly, McCain seems to want to appeal to people's fears in a personal sense, encouraging everyone to think first only of themselves- "what can Obama do for ME?" When was that ever the job of the president? That's why it feels so utterly phony to me when he says it- because he would, in the position of president, following his own view of the way government should be, do nothing to help this guy Joe or anybody else in his situation.
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