I don't know if there is anyone on Hatrack who used to play (or still plays) this game.
I was one of the early adopters of the game, starting up just weeks after the initial launch. The game was buggy but a whole lot of fun. It took a sandbox approach to the MMO genre, rather than a linear quest-based approach like Lord of the Rings Online or World of Warcraft. The in-game economy was dependent upon players to harvest and collect resources with characteristics that had a huge effect on the quality of the products they produced.
The game was so engaging that it was MONTHS before I even left the planet I started on (Tatooine) and ventured forth into other areas of the game; and even then, I hadn't even touched a great deal of content available to me in that 'zone'.
Anyway, after a couple years of development, the powers-that-were decided to drastically change the game. The sandbox economy and gameplay were forcibly removed and replaced with the linear style that has worked so well for WoW. Instead of 33 player classes (which in turn could be mixed/matched in one character for some potent combinations), there were 9 stand-alone professions. The words "Star-Warsy and iconic" were used to describe the so-called "New Game Experience"...
...ever since the game changed (I promptly quit, by the way - the game suddenly was VERY boring), a resourceful group of people have been reconstructing the pre-upgrade version of the game in their free time.
They are now at the point where they have a Test version of their server available. If you have legitimate install CDs for SWG, you can install it, then use the software they provide to update your installation, then connect to their TC server and play the game much as it was originally.
Many features are still lacking, but the pace of development has apparently ramped up significantly in recent months.
So....
...for any former SWG players who were disappointed/disillusioned by the NGE, go to this page to get more information. I, for one, got a nostalgic lump in my throat when I was able to log on and see some of the missed features of the old version of SWG. I would be embarrassed to admit how many hours of my life were sucked away by this game! But at least it was a game that my wife and I were able to enjoy TOGETHER.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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ooh, nge. NGE was about the most iconic and profound act of self-immolation committed by any mmo.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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oh, a lot of people would be excited about pre-nge galaxies, and for good reason. they got every right to pine for the old days when they had their game experience essentially ripped out from under them in a single day.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
I have an account with the Star Wars Emu project as well, they're making encredible progress, and whats awesome? Sony said what they were doing was IMPOSSIBLE to accomplish, and yet here they are almost done, thank you Sony for waiving your right to complain about it.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I have an account with the Star Wars Emu project as well, they're making encredible progress, and whats awesome? Sony said what they were doing was IMPOSSIBLE to accomplish, and yet here they are almost done, thank you Sony for waiving your right to complain about it.
Your forgetting the almost insurmountable power of one Mr. Lucas.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Player cities are definitely among the planned features for their 1.0 release.
Legality of using Mr. Lucas' intellectual property is covered in that all users are required to use a legitimate Galaxies install disc. The Emu code is written from the ground up.
Folks are already VERY interested in this, in spite of TOR MMO, since the new MMO sounds like a linear quest-based experience rather than the sandbox many of us came to love.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I had my doubts, too. I'm not totally convinced, but they seem to be able to make their case.
It is apparently a matter of reverse engineering, which is against the EULA that Sony Online Entertainment included in its software. However, the worst this would result in is a ban on the accounts of the individuals involved; legal implications aren't a concern in the U.S. or abroad. Precedent exists in the form of Ultima Online being reverse engineered and emulated elsewhere...
Now, Mr. Lucas *could* potentially decide to sue for illegally using software that included images, music, etc. that belongs to him and his company. But the developers of the EMU argue that they paid for access to this material when purchasing their game CDs. Whether this will hold up in court is debatable, but I find it hard to believe that it will get to that point.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
You can use the SWG Free trial digital download version of the game for playing the Emu.
While Sony Online Entertainment COULD in theory bring them to court it wouldn't get very far as the many and repeated dismissive statements by SOE about the Emu over the years is tantamount to a waiving of ones right in this matter.
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Blayne, you don't even understand the bare basics of copyright law or software licenses. Don't try to make legal pronouncements on them in efforts to justify things. Just say you're comfortable with what you're doing and leave be instead of spouting nonsense.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Part of what I have read from the Emu's Projects defence in this is that the public statements regarding the project, were dismissive and pretty much saying "we don't care what they do they can't succeed" both they, and I are certain that this can be construed as waiving what little right that remained to complain in the matter, and seeing that the Emu in of itself as managed for the few years its been operational now without legal harassment from SOE, either they continue to not care or they understand thet this is a legal battle they cannot likely win.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Anyways here's the gist of their argument that I could find on short notice.
"Legality of SWGemu
SWGEmu is legal. No code was stolen from Sony or any other corporation. All the code SWGEmu uses was created by intelligent and unpaid member of the community. The code is freely distributed and nothing is charged for any services provided with the code. I could go into a bunch of copyright laws and freedom of enterprise laws but, to keep this short just take my word for it. SWGemu is legal."
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posted
You're just making yourself look sillier, Blayne. For instance, those sorts of statements don't waive any legal rights. That a company chooses not to pursue an infringer does not waive any rights (though it could easily restrict the remedies that could be sought).
And the statement you quote is also silly in the extreme. That no code was stolen does not mean no infringement exists. That the code was created by unpaid people does not mean no infringement exists. That the code is freely distributed and nothing is charged does not mean no infringement exists.
In fact, while copyright would probably be one avenue pursued, the strongest avenue would almost certainly be the licensing agreement anyone using the client (even the demo client) would have agreed to, which almost certainly included standard boilerplate to prevent reverse engineering and usage with third party servers.
The proper response when you don't understand the law in the least is not to become indignant and try to act like you do understand, but to say you're comfortable with what you're doing even though you don't fully understand the legal situation.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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I played pre-CU. I think it got added to Station Pass around the time the CU was added and I tried the CU a time or 2 and felt it was EQ2 with guns and that EQ2 was better. None of my friends played it anymroe anyway, so I simply uninstalled it.
I was talked into installing it again earlier this year since some new friends play it. I've hooked up with them a few times, but overall it's still just as "blah" in the NGE as it was in the old days.
When I say that, I refer to the combat. I loved the game itself and the skillpoint system and the people I played with and all of that. But the combat always bored me to death. I haven't uninstalled it, but I can't remember the last time I even updated it. I'm also waiting for the EMU to come out just to see if my opinion's changed of the original at all, and well... I'll admit I wouldn't mind making my TKM/Dancer again. No one ever seemed to expect that Master Dancer to also be able to kick some serious booty Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: You're just making yourself look sillier, Blayne. For instance, those sorts of statements don't waive any legal rights. That a company chooses not to pursue an infringer does not waive any rights (though it could easily restrict the remedies that could be sought).
And the statement you quote is also silly in the extreme. That no code was stolen does not mean no infringement exists. That the code was created by unpaid people does not mean no infringement exists. That the code is freely distributed and nothing is charged does not mean no infringement exists.
In fact, while copyright would probably be one avenue pursued, the strongest avenue would almost certainly be the licensing agreement anyone using the client (even the demo client) would have agreed to, which almost certainly included standard boilerplate to prevent reverse engineering and usage with third party servers.
The proper response when you don't understand the law in the least is not to become indignant and try to act like you do understand, but to say you're comfortable with what you're doing even though you don't fully understand the legal situation.
Or you know you could stop pretending you understand the law and actually find the specific articles in question they could be infringing upon rather then making blanket statements or character attacks you condescending deuce.
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Using my amazing google skills and approximately thirty seconds, here's a EULA, it or a variant of which was almost certainly agreed to by anyone using SWG (demo or not).
A relevant quotation:
quote:You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server
So, anyone working on that client has virtually certainly broken the terms of the license agreement (which is a contract).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Fugu, I stated that the developer's argument is that what they are doing does in fact break the terms of the EULA, but that there is not (to their knowledge) a legal implication to this beyond the fact that SOE can deny service to the accounts of people found to be using the EMU. Since very few people who plan to play the EMU intend to ever play the current version of SWG, I find it unlikely that this would matter.
There is no "virtually certainly" about it. It *is* certain that users and developers of SWGemu flouted that particular clause. SOE is unlikely to do anything about it, either, since their playerbase is so incredibly small. I doubt that they have the financial resources or willpower to go after SWGemu, especially since the case is NOT a clear-cut example of software piracy.
Now, if someone were to create a WOW emulator under similar conditions as this, I could very easily see Blizzard going after them, since the WOW clone would draw away subscriptions, and since Blizzard has the massive resources coming from 11 million subscriptions to hire an unbeatable legal team.
Blayne, the SWGemu developers expressly and often state that using the trial version of the game is against their policy, since it constitutes piracy; using the images, music, and SW-related content for longer than the 14-day trial was ever intended. Their argument is that by purchasing the game, users have the right to use the images, models, music, and SW-related content on the server of their choice, so long as the code for that server is not stolen code. So while the quote you provided is indeed from their website, it is incomplete.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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World of Warcraft is 100000000 times better.
SWG made me switch from Playstation to Xbox since I was so pissed off at Sony for making me pay for Beta.
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While I am a huge World of Warcraft fan, I still thought the original SWG was a great game. The changes hampered it quite a bit.
And Unicorn, if you were mad about SWG being a beta you should have played Asheron's Call 2. While I loved that game and swore by it, in the years it was up it never ever functioned properly.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by BandoCommando: Fugu, I stated that the developer's argument is that what they are doing does in fact break the terms of the EULA, but that there is not (to their knowledge) a legal implication to this beyond the fact that SOE can deny service to the accounts of people found to be using the EMU. Since very few people who plan to play the EMU intend to ever play the current version of SWG, I find it unlikely that this would matter.
There is no "virtually certainly" about it. It *is* certain that users and developers of SWGemu flouted that particular clause. SOE is unlikely to do anything about it, either, since their playerbase is so incredibly small. I doubt that they have the financial resources or willpower to go after SWGemu, especially since the case is NOT a clear-cut example of software piracy.
Now, if someone were to create a WOW emulator under similar conditions as this, I could very easily see Blizzard going after them, since the WOW clone would draw away subscriptions, and since Blizzard has the massive resources coming from 11 million subscriptions to hire an unbeatable legal team.
Blayne, the SWGemu developers expressly and often state that using the trial version of the game is against their policy, since it constitutes piracy; using the images, music, and SW-related content for longer than the 14-day trial was ever intended. Their argument is that by purchasing the game, users have the right to use the images, models, music, and SW-related content on the server of their choice, so long as the code for that server is not stolen code. So while the quote you provided is indeed from their website, it is incomplete.
Me hypothetically using the client to use the Emu servers is not relevant to the argument at hand, and also trivial until they make a full release.
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Oh, yeah, I don't think anyone's going to go after them. I just want people engaging in the activity to go into it with open eyes, not delude themselves (perhaps by relying on Blayne's wild assertions).
Blayne: do you want me to point at places in the EULA that would make it a violation to use the client to connect to the server, too, or can you do the reading yourself?
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Like Bando said, the worst a Eula violation can do is get my account with SOE banned, since I don't play their games, or plan on doing so it doesn't matter and is not what I was talking about.
Your still being a condescending deuce.
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quote:Like Bando said, the worst a Eula violation can do is get my account with SOE banned
This is almost certainly untrue. That might be all SOE cares to do, but they have a variety of legal options beyond that.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
A EULA is a contract, and you could potentially have more happen to you. You won't, because it isn't worth it, but you were making assertions about legality, not about practical outcomes.
Stop acting like an idiot about legal matters. Don't behave childishly when people dispute your assertions about reality.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Like Bando said, the worst a Eula violation can do is get my account with SOE banned
This is almost certainly untrue. That might be all SOE cares to do, but they have a variety of legal options beyond that.
I believe it is the "almost" part of "almost certainly" that makes the SWGemu people assured of their legal safety. While they are perhaps incorrect in stating that it is legal, perhaps they wouldn't entirely be mistaken to say "we aren't being illegal." But it's thin ice for sure.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: A EULA is a contract, and you could potentially have more happen to you. You won't, because it isn't worth it, but you were making assertions about legality, not about practical outcomes.
Stop acting like an idiot about legal matters. Don't behave childishly when people dispute your assertions about reality.
And you stop being an immature prick. Its not enough for you to claim to be right you have to constantly assert your the winner of a trivial internet argument.
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Blayne, look up above. You demanded I respond with specific evidence. Don't get pissy about being proven wrong when you were told how to deal with the question of legality gracefully and then demand your position be demolished.
I was short with you to begin with because you do this over and over again. You talk about companies having waived their legal rights, about how doing something obviously questionable is completely legal, et cetera. I assume this is because you think what feels right should be legally okay, or similar reason. The proper response when there is a definite potential legal issue surrounding one of your behaviors is not to become strident about how there's absolutely no way you could be in the wrong, as in the initial post I reproduce here:
quote:You can use the SWG Free trial digital download version of the game for playing the Emu.
While Sony Online Entertainment COULD in theory bring them to court it wouldn't get very far as the many and repeated dismissive statements by SOE about the Emu over the years is tantamount to a waiving of ones right in this matter.
This is a repeated sort of behavior for you. This is one of the behaviors that makes you look least like an adult, able to consider taking responsibilities for your own actions. This is a behavior that contributes to a culture of irresponsibility about copyright infringement and license violations, and undermines the efforts of those who really want to get them changed.
Want to make or use an emulated server, or whatever other potentially problematic use? Fine. But instead of putting out "well, we're going to hand-wave that we're legal, and anyways, they won't sue" as the creators of this one have done and as you did in this thread, put out that you understand this is a complicated legal issue, but that you are comfortable with your decision to take action. That you do not believe what you are doing is wrong, and that you hope if it does come into legal question, that you hope those pursuing legal action come to understand what has been done is out of appreciation for their product, and decide it will be better to work with the community of devoted fans who did these things rather than attempt to punish it.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Blah blah blah your just projecting, your seeking to justify treating me like shit, you weren't "gracefully" handling this your just being insulting and a condescending deuce.
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I was telling you how to gracefully handle it, and that's all I said about being graceful. I also said I was short with you. Please read more closely.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by blindsay: While I am a huge World of Warcraft fan, I still thought the original SWG was a great game. The changes hampered it quite a bit.
I agree. I LOVED the SWG before the Combat "Upgrade" I spent countless hours in the Tusken Fortress running from top to bottom, smokin' foos and collecting crystals.
I have several screenshots to prove it.
...then I progressed to going to Endor, then flying around and lightsabering everything in sight. That was AWESOME.
But...then....came the combat upgrade.....
and i was trapped in my $&#@!*% house for 6 weeks.
I think I got ganked 18 times and then quit.
POW as soon as I stepped out of my house.
Then came world of warcraft.
The GREATEST game ever.
Haven't played since School started.
My Paladin was so EFFIN' leet.
I led healing in like 97% of all BG's and my overall BG win ratio when I was on my paladin was like 87%. He was ALWAYS holy, eff ret.
quote:you weren't "gracefully" handling this your just being insulting and a condescending deuce.
"Dear world," said Blayne. "I am incapable of being mature when given the opportunity to fly into Fanboy Rage. Never give me the benefit of the doubt when it comes to acting like an adult."
"Okay" said the forum.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Comparing WOW to the Pre-CU SWG is like comparing apples and oranges; it really comes down to preference.
Yes, SWG was buggy, and WOW tends to not be. Yes, WOW provided a more streamlined and easier to learn user interface.
But WOW lacks several features that, to me, make it much less interesting to play. These features are, not coincidentally, the ones removed from SWG with the NGE that made me finally lose interest in SWG.
Specifically:
- the detailed crafting system - the player economy that was dependent on this crafting system (and item decay). - player cities and communities which created opportunities for events, PvP, and modification of the virtual world (to a certain extent). - the sense that you could really have your own individual storyline, rather than following a rather linear quest based system to gain XP. - a HUGE variety game-play choices: the ground game had the usual PVP/PVE options (which, admittedly, aren't as rich as the experience in WOW or even Lord of the Rings Online), but also incorporated the above-mentioned items. The space game also was moderately interesting as an option, and I think that it fit in nicely with the ground game, at least in terms of the crafting portion...
It all comes down to preference, though. It's like trying to argue whether Sim City is better than Doom.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005
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