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Author Topic: The Marshmallow Test
Brinestone
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I get a randomly generated wikihow link every day on my iGoogle page, and yesterday it was this. I thought it sounded like fun. Has anyone here heard of it or tried it on their kid?
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Sean Monahan
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I've seen this test before. It was never performed on me, but if it had been, I can tell I would have been the kid who ate it right away. Then, when the adult returned, I would have tried to explain why I'm still deserving of a second marshmallow.
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dantesparadigm
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I saw that too. There's a really cool study called "The Origins of Monetary Income Inequality" about the same sort of thing. Here.
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Tara
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I like the kid who eats it before the guy even leaves the room.
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andi330
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You can substitute the marshmallow for something else if your kids don't like marshmallows. If I'd been one of the four-year-olds that Stanford tested, I'd have skewed the data, because I have never liked marshmallows.
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Glenn Arnold
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Seems very Piagetian. Kids below a certain stage simply may not recognize that two is more than one, when the other one isn't present.
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andi330
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I think that's why Stanford waited until the children were four. By that age, most children can count and understand the concept that if this one is still here when I get back, I'll give you another one.
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Eaquae Legit
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I was the kid who ate tiny bits off one section and hoped the adult wouldn't notice.
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Tammy
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That was too cute. I love watching kids when they don't think they're being watched. It's a shame we change so much as we grow up.
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Dobbie
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Marshmallows are disgusting. I don't understand how anyone can eat even one.
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Nighthawk
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I would try that with my son, but I know for a fact that, no matter what happens, I would have a borderline impossible time *not* giving him another marshmallow.

He's quite convincing when he wants to be.

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Sala
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dantesparadigm, thanks for sharing that study. It was really fascinating.
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Teshi
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quote:
If they ate the marshmallow while you were gone, try to use the moment for teaching about delayed gratification.
MOM: Now Benny, when I was gone, you ate the marshmallow even though I said you could have another if you waited. If you had waited you would have got TWO marshmallows. This is called delayed gratification. Don't you think that next time you're going to wait and then you'll get more?
BENNY: But Mom, I'm four. First of all, one marshmallow is much more healthy. Secondly, the conceptual leap that there will or will not be a marshmallow in the future and what that will mean is directly linked to my experience with this kind of promise. If I have a parental unit who often promises and rarely gives, I am unlikely to wait. The same goes for one who gives in and gives me a new one even if I eat the marshmallow. (This actually comes up in the sermon now that I watched it).

I imagine the reason many children much younger than four have a problem resisting this is because imagining the second marshmallow in the future is a pretty complex thought process (as well as to do with their aforementioned experience).

I would say that most adults demonstrate this disconnect at some point in their lives and most of them don't face a reward for doing things right but actually a punishment (official e.g. prison or unofficial e.g. unhappiness, discovery, guilt) for acting. This could be something as simple as not doing the taxes ahead of time and discovering you've got to do them all in one horrible day. Doing taxes ahead of time is not a measure of intelligence that any adult would really want to apply to them and yet it carries the same kind of reward/punishment. Logic does not always enter in the decisions of adults-- there are a million other factors at work.

I would like to propose alternative thought experiments that go along with this.

1. The children are, instead of offered a reward, told that they will receive a punishment for eating the marshmallow and nothing for not eating it (except the same marshmallow). I wonder whether this would alter the results and who eats the marshmallow?

2. This test is carried out on a group of children who have been allowed to watch the end of a previous test. They can therefore see that a marshmallow is assuredly given.

3. The addition isn't a second marshmallow but actually the chocolate sauce itself. I imagine this would make little or difference to the outcome. Those who can wait, can wait.

4. There is no reward. Children are merely told to wait.

5. (Thought, remember) The child is starving and it's one or two chicken nuggets.

Lastly, I think the addition of chocolate sauce actually makes this kind of a cruel test. If anyone did this to you, you would find it pretty harsh because they actually go out of their way to make it look delicious. Mmm, look at how delicious this marshmallow is going to be. I'm all for figuring out how to not do things. It's an important skill. However, I'm not for baiting.

[ February 08, 2009, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Teshi ]

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andi330
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I liked the little girl who pushed the marshmallow way down the table to avoid being tempted. I thought that was really smart.
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Glenn Arnold
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quote:
I would try that with my son, but I know for a fact that, no matter what happens, I would have a borderline impossible time *not* giving him another marshmallow.
1. How old is your son?

2. If what you say is true, this might be a really good lesson for you both. I recommend you do the experiment and stick to the rules.

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Darth_Mauve
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I wonder if they tested it on 25 year old men replacing the marshmallows with beer, what the result would be? 30 year old women and chocolate?
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by andi330:
I liked the little girl who pushed the marshmallow way down the table to avoid being tempted. I thought that was really smart.

Me too.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
quote:
I would try that with my son, but I know for a fact that, no matter what happens, I would have a borderline impossible time *not* giving him another marshmallow.
1. How old is your son?

2. If what you say is true, this might be a really good lesson for you both. I recommend you do the experiment and stick to the rules.

1) Seven and a half.

2) Perhaps. But he's *really* convincing... [Smile]

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rivka
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Or you're a big-time sucker. [Razz]
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neo-dragon
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There's also what I like to call the "reverse marshmallow test".

It goes something like, "You get just one slap across the bottom with the belt if you hold still, and two if you try to run." Who knew that my mom was a scientist?

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PSI Teleport
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I've done this test with both of my children, but apparently I did it wrong. I gave them two marshmallows, because I only had small ones. My son had no trouble not eating the marshmallows. My daughter ate one and then demanded that the one she had left be doubled. I about fell over when she said that. I can't remember if I ended up giving her the other marshmallow or not.

But both of these results were very predictable, in my experience. My son, the firstborn, spent two years alone with me and I remember spending a large percentage of my parenting efforts on teaching him delayed gratification. I remember that when he would ask for something as a toddler, I would tell him to "wait one minute" and I would set a timer. Then, when the timer would ding, I would get him whatever he had asked for. The time would be extended a little as he got older. It was a really great way to teach him. (Although he may just have thought that the timer was my boss, but he is now an incredibly patient kid.)

My daughter, though, has always been the devious one. Not in an outright, deceitful way that she could be caught and punished for, but in a way that is very ambiguous. She knows how to balance right on the line, and she's very tricky to pin down. So the results I got from the test were pretty consistent with that.

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Brinestone
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I tried it with Lego (3 in April) tonight. I didn't have any marshmallows, so I tried it with M&Ms. I gave him three and told him that if all three were still on his plate when I got back from changing Duplo's diaper, I'd give him three more. While I was talking, he popped one in his mouth. I asked, "Don't you want to wait until I get back so you can have three more?"

He spit the M&M right out and said, "I wanna wait."

But when I got back, the M&Ms were all gone. I'll try again in a year. [Big Grin]

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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth_Mauve:
I wonder if they tested it on 25 year old men replacing the marshmallows with beer, what the result would be? 30 year old women and chocolate?

18 year old men replacing the marshmallows with women..... [Wink]
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MightyCow
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
18 year old men replacing the marshmallows with women..... [Wink]

Most men have to wait their entire life and still never get two women.
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Strider
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
18 year old men replacing the marshmallows with women..... [Wink]

Most men have to wait their entire life and still never get two women.
If this was offered to me when I was 18 I would've been quite happy with one.

As for the marshmallow test...I can't speak directly to the thought process of a 4 year old, but I think that as the subject gets older the thought process involved in the choice becomes much more complicated. Say this test is administered to me. It's not a strict weighing of one marshmallow vs two marshmallows. It's one marshmallow NOW vs two later. Maybe I don't want two marshmallows. Maybe one is enough. In which case what the heck is the point of waiting? Maybe the extra joy gained from the one extra marshmallow isn't great enough to make up for the frustration of having to wait. Maybe I'd rather be happy with one marshmallow than have to deal with the experience of being restless for minutes waiting for the arrival of a second marshmallow.

I applaud the children who just took the marshmallow right off and saved themselves a lot of heartache.

Now granted, it's easy for me to say this about marshmallows, and I'm sure the decision is situation specific depending on what reward is presented.

oh...the addition of the chocolate syrup was just fantastically cruel.

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The Rabbit
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I would suspect that the results of such a test would be strongly dependent on how hungry the kid is. I can only speak for myself, but when I'm very hungry I have a much more difficult time with delayed gratification, I don't care so much about quality or even quantity -- I just want food "NOW!".
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Strider
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The most recent Radiolab podcast talks about this experiment. With the added bonus of someone who did this experiment back in the 60s and then checked back in with these children throughout their lives to determine if their will power as a child had any correlation to their adult lives.

It's a short podcast, not a full episode

http://blogs.wnyc.org/radiolab/2009/03/09/mischel%E2%80%99s-marshmallows/

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LargeTuna
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quote:
Originally posted by Dobbie:
Marshmallows are disgusting. I don't understand how anyone can eat even one.

Agreed! Just thinking about that pure sugar and additives with nothing your body could possibley want makes me feel sick. uhhg and even get me started on peeps1 ewwwwww [Embarrassed]
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Mike
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Strider, that podcast was really interesting. Thanks for linking it.
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Tatiana
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That was interesting. I wonder if it might be true that one of the most important things we can teach our kids (and ourselves, for that matter) is how to delay gratification.

My second thought is that there's probably a lot of brain chemistry and hard-wiring involved. I would bet a big component in how many seconds a kid could delay eating the Oreo is hereditary. I also wonder what that means.

Thirdly, what would a gratification delay training program look like? Shouldn't we design one and start giving it a try?

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Toretha
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I'm dubious.

For one, seems to me like the kids who were able to delay would be more likely to be the ones who's parents spent time with them, working on things like delayed gratification and good behavior under stress. And, in general, kids whose parents spend more time working with them, tend to have better grades, less delinquency, etc. So....the marshmallow could merely be an indicator of which kids had good parenting. Likewise, kids less able to resist might have already learned that adults don't necessarily keep their promises, which would make it harder to resist, since the promise is unsure. And that too would be an indication of parenting rather than inherent will power.

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Raymond Arnold
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The test doesn't say anything about WHY these kids will do better later on. Whether because it's something inherent in the child or the way they were parented is irrelevant to the tests' accuracy.
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Tatiana
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Toretha, it might be a marker for bad parenting, but it also can be a marker for things like ADHD or other brain abnormalities, since those conditions are marked by poor impulse control. It's far from sure that training kids in delayed gratification by itself can make all those good outcomes happen. I totally agree with you there. But it is intriguing and makes me wonder what would happen if we trained everyone specifically for that one thing. Obviously more studies need to be done to find out, but I hope they don't take 40 years to get a definite outcome.
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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
18 year old men replacing the marshmallows with women..... [Wink]

Most men have to wait their entire life and still never get two women.
Not at the same time, maybe.....which is alright with me.
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Xavier
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When this was first linked wondered why they didn't make sure the kid actually did prefer the second marshmallow before leaving.

"Here is a marshmallow. Would you prefer to eat this one now, or would you rather have two in five minutes?"

I'd imagine that for several of the kids, it wasn't a question of willpower, but preference.

For others, it could just be that they think the game isn't worth playing.

"If he's willing to give me two marshmallows in five minutes, why would he stop me from eating one now and one then? I bet he'll still give me the second marshmallow, unless he's some kind of jerk."

At that age I could see myself thinking similar thoughts.

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Tatiana
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I know that for me when I was little, I would have expected my older brother or sister to take it away from me if I didn't eat it right away. So I most likely wouldn't have waited. The choice would have been one marshmallow now or at most one later. No way that other one would still be there after 20 minutes. You know? Take advantage of the bird in the hand, for goodness sakes! [Smile]
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