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You can lead a horse to water......only to find out that it is an ass. (Hope that was politicially correct.) The Republican party is the public fringe of a growing movement of people that mistakenly believe that the Constitution is still "Golden" but Roe vs Wade did away with equal rights under the law and granted eminent domain over procreation to half the population. The Supreme Court is silent (go figure)The silent majority is waking up. All that is needed now is a Christian Hispanic Rush Limbaugh. (laugh)
Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2009
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Okay, then you're miscommunicating that situation. For instance, what you've described just implied that, controlling for socioeconomic status, at the high end private schools will be more likely to produce better results (due to the few excellent private schools). That's directly counter to "Public schools and private schools perform, on average, about the same, if you account for things like socioeconomic status".
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Out of interest, mal, how do you reckon that men and women had "equal rights under the law" re: procreation prior to Roe v. Wade?Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Out of interest, mal, how do you reckon that men and women had "equal rights under the law" re: procreation prior to Roe v. Wade?
I think that was a different post but I'll answer your question. Prior to legalized abortion both parents were held equally accountable for their actions. The resultant pregnancy was an equal burden and responsibility for both. Legalized abortion has muddied the waters. Even pro-life supporters prefer a mother drop off the child at a fire department without consequence over abortion. Fathers must suffer the consequence of his actions no matter what. Prior to Rov v Wade, both parents could agree on adoption or share the parental burdon. Now, mom can abort, adopt or keep. She has numerous get out of jail free cards while the father has none. If he wants her to abort, he can hope she makes that choice for him. If he wants her to keep it, he can hope she chooses to keep it. If he wants to keep it himself, he can hope she chooses to give birth and give it to him. If he doesn't want it and doesn't want the responsibility and she chooses to give birth, he is still held accountable. Keeping it in his pants is his only choice. Prior to legalized abortion, they had equality of choice, both parents were held responsible for their actions. In a way, I'm pro choice.
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Didn't you already start a whole thread where you asserted that and it was shot down? DO you think that we have forgotten?
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:The Republican party is the public fringe of a growing movement of people that mistakenly believe that the Constitution is still "Golden" but Roe vs Wade did away with equal rights under the law and granted eminent domain over procreation to half the population.
Wait a minute, what? In what way precisely did the Constitution do away with equal rights under the law?
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quote:Prior to legalized abortion both parents were held equally accountable for their actions. The resultant pregnancy was an equal burden and responsibility for both.
This is incorrect. The resulting parenthood is, or should be, an equal burden and responsibility for both mother and father. The pregnancy itself, though? Are you suggesting it's equally burdensome to both mother and father? That's absurd. Furthermore, for better or worse in general the parenthood itself is often more burdensome to the mother than the father as well.
It's refreshing to get to take this stance on this issue, even though my overall opinion hasn't changed:)
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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This no different than arguing if men and women are equal. It is not PC to say that one or the other are physically or mentally superior while certain differences are undeniable.
The pregnancy itself is of course more burdonsome for the mother. And you are correct, typically, "parenthood" is more burdonsome for the mother, if she decides to give birth, adopt or keep the child. "Parenthood" is her sole choice. Even in traditional families "parenthood" may be more difficult for the mother. The "responsibility" is equivalent though. The father is at work all day while the mother is busy parenting or they both work and share the parenting responsibility. My wife works occasionally as a teacher but 9 times out of ten she is a stay at home mom. She is the primary "parent" to our children yet the roof over their head, the cloths on their backs and the food they eat comes from the father. Fathers are often denegrated for their time away from the family or work several days per week to support children they cannot even see. Fathers work to provide yet are not considered primary "parents" to the children. Even in non traditional relationships, the father will pay financial support for the children not under his roof, unless the mother chooses abortion or adoption.
I don't believe the father and mother have the same obligation yet their obligations are equivalent, dependent upon the choices of the mother.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: This no different than arguing if men and women are equal. It is not PC to say that one or the other are physically or mentally superior.
It's not PC because value judgments are not necessary- men and women are physically and mentally different. I didn't realize you wanted to add misogyny to your list of personal attributes now.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:This no different than arguing if men and women are equal. It is not PC to say that one or the other are physically or mentally superior.
It's quite different. You said some things that were, plainly on their face, incorrect. Not just semantically incorrect, or politically incorrect, but factually incorrect.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Suggesting that mothers are more of a parent than fathers is incorrect. While mothers may me the direct "parent" the fathers role in supprort of the family is equivalent. In my personal life I am keenly aware of this. I'll work all day and as soon as I come home, my wife who has spent all day with my children expects "family time". The 8 - 10 hours per day providing for that family are not considered as "family time" and by your assertion "parenting" time. Being a parent goes beyond the person changing the diaper, someone has to work to buy the diaper. The time spent to pay for a diaper is longer than the time spent changing a diaper.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: This no different than arguing if men and women are equal. It is not PC to say that one or the other are physically or mentally superior.
It's not PC because value judgments are not necessary- men and women are physically and mentally different. I didn't realize you wanted to add misogyny to your list of personal attributes now.
Orincoro, take a break. You don't have to be ornery everyday of your life you know.
Having said that I believe I agree with your preceding statement.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Suggesting that mothers are more of a parent than fathers is incorrect.
If that is what you had said initially, we wouldn't be having this conversation now, malanathrop.
quote:The resultant pregnancy was an equal burden and responsibility for both.
That's what you said, and what I objected to. You ought to remember, seeing as how it was only, what, an hour and a half ago?
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