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Author Topic: XPS... seriously?
Mr.Gumby
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To start off, this is NOT a let's-bash-on-PC thread or a Mac vs. PC thread. With that said...

Lately I've been addicted to shopping around for a pc. Just researching. Not buying.
I love how I can customize my own pc on dell.com. I don't understand it. I find it entertaining. Finding out what I can get and how much it'll cost is fun to me.

I've compared dell prices to other brands and I've found that dell does well, usually. I then decided to compare a dell to a dell. These are my results:


Inspiron 530
-Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q8200 (4MB L2, 2.33GHz, 1333FSB)
-4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 4DIMMs
-500GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
-16X DVD+/-RW Drive
-Dell S1709W 17" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
-ATI RADEON HD 4670 512MB
-Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
-Mouse included with Keyboard purchase
Subtotal $924


XPS 630
-Intel® Core™2 Q6600 Quad-Core (8MB L2 cache,2.40GHz,1066FSB)
-4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs
-500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
-Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability
-No Monitor
-ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB
-No Keyboard
-No Mouse
Subtotal $1,264

I know there slight differences on RAM and one, semi-major difference in processors, but is it really worth $340 more for an XPS? The XPS doesn't even come with a monitor which, in my opinion, is a very important computer peripheral. That will make it roughly a $450 difference.

So, my question to all you pc (what's the word) smart people, are XPS's really that much better than Inspirons or other dells? Are people really buying a better system or just a name?

Thanks

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Lanfear
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All Dell's have name brand markups. Build your own.

That said, I have an xps 410, old news now, but it runs like a champ.

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BlueWizard
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I think you will find the difference in the Processor to be the bulk of the difference. While both are Quad Core with nearly the same clock speed, the Q6600 is clearly the better processor.

But that doesn't account for everything. The XPS has a faster data transfer Hard Drive with a larger cache. In addition the XPS has a better DVD/CD player/writer with the Double Layer Write capability. And an improved video card. Whether that is enough to fully justify the price difference is difficult to tell.

Likely the XPS also uses a different motherboard with a different chip set which can add to the cost.

I think the underlying questions isn't which is bigger and better, but how much do you really need? Can you really justify the additional expense to server your realistic computing needs?

Keep in mind, if you want the latest and fastest, you can drop $3,000 on a hard core gaming machine.

And while we may all want the gaming machine, how many of us really need it?

Steve/bluewizard

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Lyrhawn
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I spent a lot of money, way too much I realize now three years later, on my 17 inch Dell Inspiron 9300 laptop. I added a ton of goodies to it, which ended up costing me upwards of $1800, though a large chunk of that was the uber expensive four year warranty I put on it, which in hindsight I'm glad I did, for it has paid for itself at least twice over. The XPS equivalent to what I bought was over $3K. Other than the cool shiny lights that came built in, I didn't think it was nearly worth it.

I guess it's one of those things you learn from experience. I've learned that my laptop, bought for school, is nearly useless in taking notes because the batter never lasts long enough and it's far too large to fit on any of the desks in the classrooms. It's way too heavy to carry around a very hilly and spread out campus in addition to all my books and binders. It's great for around the house, but as a school computer it's beyond cumbersome.

XPS computers on Dell have always struck me as something you get more for status and appearance than functionality, but I guess they DO offer improved functionality, it just comes at an even larger premium.

I still use this laptop for my gaming, but my heart is currently set on an uber cheap Mini laptop, I think they're called netbooks too, that have great battery life, are only used for net browsing and word processing, and are very portable. I just need one with a decent keyboard size and at the right price. Mac is an epic failure in this regard. The Macbook Air might be the coolest thing since sliced bread, but I could buy a bread truck for what it costs.

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Kwea
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I have a great laptop I bought for under $700, including tax. I has a 320G hard drive, ADM dual core mobile EM-72 (2.10), 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 4DIMMs,Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability and LightScribe, and wireless-N; a Radeon x3100 video card.


I play WOW on it and it runs great. I have also played a few other demos and games on it and it ran fine.


The netbooks look cool and have good functionability, and are running under $299 now. My computer has a 14.1 screen, and I keep it plugged in most of the time. The battery life is the only disappointment I have with it, 2 hours or so on balanced or powersaver mode just isn't good enough. Thank God I sit near an outlet. [Big Grin]

I payed $620, and the list for this computer is $699 now.

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Mr.Gumby
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Blue Wizard, I totally agree with you. I would love the ultimate gaming machine, but would I honestly need it. Of course not.

If I wanted to I could drop $2000+ on a computer with a 2gig video card and a 1.5 terabyte hard drive. I don't remember what the processor speed was, but 2GIG?! I'd be very happy with a 512mb card. And what non-government or non-business computer need that much disk space? Besides, I just want something that'll play Starcraft 2...when it eventually comes out.

Also, I have looked at laptops just for fun, but when I actually get the chance to buy a new computer it'll be a desktop just because they're usually cheaper than a laptop with the same tech specs.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
And what non-government or non-business computer need that much disk space?
I have 4TB available at home. 2.2 TB are used.
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fugu13
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Yeah, 1.5 TB is easy to blow through even with legal media.
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Mr.Gumby
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What? 2.2 TB are used? I don't think I could use up 500 GB if all my music and dvds were ripped to the hard drive. That's nut! Btw, I like how you said "legal" media, fugu13. [Wink]

Another question, has anyone had experience with eBay whitebox computers? Just curious.

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scifibum
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Well, eBay has hundreds of different PC vendors.

You should probably go by sellers' feedback ratings, length of eBay history, and what specific components they are using and the manufacturer warranties for those components and any additional warranty from the seller (taken with a grain of salt if they appear have a limited sales history).

I'd only go this route if you aren't comfortable assembling your own PC but would be happy with a machine that would effectively be the same as if you had done so, because most vendors large enough to offer BOTH competitive prices and significant support/services will have their own website with a better price. eBay is for small vendors, used machines, and a side outlet for large vendors.

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Mr.Gumby
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Thanks. I'm not comfortable building a PC on my own. Maybe some friends of mine know more about that. I'll have to look into doing that.
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BlackBlade
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I have an XPS 630 with the following specs,

XPS 630, Intel Core2 processorQ6600 (2.40Ghz,1066FSB) w/Quad Core Technology and 8MB cache
4GB DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz
Dual Nvidia GeForce 9800GT
640GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/ DataBurst Cache
16X DVD+R/RW

A month or two after I got it Dell offered me a discounted 3 year warranty on it for about $250, which I took. The computer by itself cost me about $1300. I've only had it 7 months but it runs wonderfully fluid. The fans fire up for about 8 seconds after turning it on, but it runs almost silently the rest of the time. I tried Empire Total War on it and it handles it easily. I'm very happy with it, inside it's fantastically organized and very easy to work with. Speaking of, I should probably defrag and dedust is sometime soon.

edit: As with most computers though, if it manages the four year gauntlet without problems then it gets my seal of approval.

[ April 27, 2009, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]

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scifibum
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I have to wonder why hard drive I/O is such a low priority in most builds. That machine BB has is a gaming screamer - with the dual 9800s - but game load times are probably no better than on the Dell Inspiron 530 would have been.

Well, I guess I do know why - you load for 15 seconds or a minute, then you can play for a long time. Performance DURING is more important than that initial wait.

But I hardly ever see commercially built home PCs that use RAID to advantage. I LOVED having a striped array, until one of the drives failed - I hate waiting for drive I/O. I'll probably try RAID 5 when I get the spare cash for two more drives. (I understand there's a performance hit for drive writes if you don't have a dedicated controller, but I think the read gain + redundancy will probably make up for that in my case.)

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King of Men
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I'm using easily over a terabyte of hard drive space for the data for my thesis. It's a bit of a constraint, in fact.
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Epictetus
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quote:
Thanks. I'm not comfortable building a PC on my own. Maybe some friends of mine know more about that. I'll have to look into doing that.
Dude, just ask. [Big Grin]

I just built my first PC a few months ago and I love it loads more than my old Dell. Here's what I've got inside it:

Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 Wolfdale 2.8GHz
Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive
22X DVD Burner Black SATA
ASUS GeForce 9500 GT 512MB PCI Express 2.0 x16
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066

Not top of the line by any means, but it's light years ahead of my previous computer. All together it cost me about $580 without counting the case, but I also didn't have to buy the monitor, speakers or keyboard/mouse. My only advice about buying Dell computers is: A) reformat the hard drive the instant you pull it out of the box and reinstall Windows, get rid of all the extraneous programs Dell tends to bog the hard drive down with, and B) I've found Dell likes to use proprietary parts for the case, fans, and heat-sink enclosure, so I recommend trying to find pictures of the computer's insides before buying to see how much room you'll have to expand.

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Sterling
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Self-built i7 940, baby. [Big Grin]

Now, with monitor being a concern, is it safe to assume that there aren't any pieces of a previous computer that can be cannibalized for this one? Depending on your needs and need for style, you may well be able to pick up a monitor from a thrift-shop or the like for $40 or less. Basic keyboards and mice are also available dirt cheap, even brand new.

If you're concerned about whether you need the XPS, I'd say you probably don't. I'd get tech specs on a couple of things- the number of avaialble SATA ports if you need additional storage, most significantly- and be prepared to upgrade piecemeal somewhere down the line if and when you actually find your needs exceed your reach.

(Honestly, learning to install a new hard drive isn't that hard. You touch something metal (with a kind of superstitious frequency, if you're me), open the case, screw in four to six screws, plug it in, and you're usually good to go.)

I don't doubt there will be some difference in power between the two systems, but I also doubt it will be one you'll notice for most purposes. They're both quad-core architectures with 4 GB of RAM. Neither is clawing at the rarefied heights of the "Quad2Extreme" or i7 level. You might shed a few frames per second in a game, or a minute or so in a rendering operation, or a few minutes of compiling (depending on what you use the computer for.) But I doubt it will be enough of a difference to shed bitter tears that an extra $300 can't absorb. Most games these days, run on a quad system with a decent video card, will run at or around 60fps without too much of a difficulty. Barring maybe Crysis.

Here's a benchmark page for the HD4670, incidentally. It sounds like it's generally a pretty decent performer.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Sterling:
You touch something metal (with a kind of superstitious frequency, if you're me)

Wrist strap: $5
Peace of mind: Priceless!

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Mr.Gumby
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Madness. This thread, originally, was just a bit of a rant, but now I'm getting some information that could save me money. You've planted an idea within me.

I've now had this dream since lunch time and I don't think I can let it go.

I didn't know that you built a computer, Sam. Man, if you can do it... I kid! I kid! [Big Grin]

Like I said before, I'm not looking to blow up the internet or anything. I just want to be able to play a game or two in the future. I'm living with in-laws at the moment, but someday my wife and I will eventually move out and need/have a place for a computer of our own. Believe me, when that time comes I'll be asking for all the help I can get.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Gumby:
Madness. This thread, originally, was just a bit of a rant, but now I'm getting some information that could save me money. You've planted an idea within me.

I've now had this dream since lunch time and I don't think I can let it go.

I didn't know that you built a computer, Sam. Man, if you can do it... I kid! I kid! [Big Grin]

Like I said before, I'm not looking to blow up the internet or anything. I just want to be able to play a game or two in the future. I'm living with in-laws at the moment, but someday my wife and I will eventually move out and need/have a place for a computer of our own. Believe me, when that time comes I'll be asking for all the help I can get.

When I expressed interest in building my own computer, hatrack was wonderfully informative and helpful. It was my wife that nixed the whole thing. <sigh> maybe next time. [Smile]
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TomDavidson
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I guarantee you, you can build a computer. And you can build a good computer for under $600.
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Sterling
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Well...

There was someone at my college who had such a knack for screwing up computers (especially other people's computers) that his very name became synonymous among certain circles with something going wrong with a computer, especially if said person had been in the vicinity.

I'm just saying I wouldn't necessarily guarantee that anyone can build a computer. Though quite probably Mr. Gumby can.

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Jon Boy
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quote:
Originally posted by BlueWizard:
I think you will find the difference in the Processor to be the bulk of the difference. While both are Quad Core with nearly the same clock speed, the Q6600 is clearly the better processor.

No, it's not. For the most part there's only a negligible difference in speed between the two.
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Mr.Gumby
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Thanks for your vote of confidence, Sterling. I'm pretty sure I don't have a destructive aura about me. [Razz]

Just curious. What store or website is great for obtaining computer parts?

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TomDavidson
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NewEgg.com.

It's not really necessary to go anywhere else. Just be sure to sign up for their weekly newsletters, which have far better deals.

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Mr.Gumby
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Cool beans. I was just on their site.
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The Pixiest
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If anyone is in the bay area, I highly recommend Central Computer. Buy your parts, let them do a POST test, take it all home and put it together. Saves you a ton of money and you get better quality. My latest gaming box cost ~$1000 with sweet-spot parts, not the cheap stuff Dell sends you. You don't get a 3yr warranty, but if you're playing the latest games, you're going to upgrade before then anyway.

Of course, Dell is still the way to go if A> You don't know what you're doing or B> You're a business and need all your computers to be "the same" as possible or C> Want a laptop.

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Mr.Gumby
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Has anyone had experience with geeks.com? If so, was it good?
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Sterling
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My last computer was about 75% NewEgg, 25% TigerDirect.
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Tatiana
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I used to be a build-your-own fan but then I experienced multiple times of spending entire weekends trying to get different components to work together, and calling in my more experienced in hardware brother, and having HIM spend whole weekends messing with them, and finally giving up and not having a working drive for writing cds/dvds for a year or so, and now I just love picking stuff off the list and letting the factory build and test it. So much less hassle.

I mean, I've done my own plumbing work too, and you learn tons (including stuff you never wanted to know about what's in your drains) but it's STILL much nicer, faster, and cleaner to just call the plumber when you need one. I agree that it's less virtuous, but it's so much easier! This is how I feel about building my own PC now.

Ditto working on my own car to keep it running.

Ditto installing new major appliances. Sure I could do it, and I have the tools, but wow do I save time and hassle by getting someone else to do it for me.

My brother builds his own furniture and boats from trees. I think that's awesome. But I don't feel like I want to do that. His furniture and his boats are one of a kind masterpieces, it's true, but while you're learning how, your work isn't always so great. It takes a lot of mistakes to become a master at things like that.

I think people do it because they love it, not because it's easier, cheaper, or better in any way.

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Sterling
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I suspect it depends on a lot of factors- including what type of computer you're trying to make (the closer to the cutting edge, the more manufacturers are going to charge, the more frills they'll add on, the more you can save by doing it yourself), if you can salvage from previous computers and how much, plus some niche markets (like small form factor PCs) that are sometimes more expensive.

There's definitely something to be said for a warranty, and I'm nowhere near trying to install something like water cooling by myself. But looking around, computers with my current build's spec still seem to run a good $200-400 more in a comparable build from a manufacturer.

And yes, it was definitely a feeling of accomplishment to put the thing together, have it work, and even figure out some little glitches on my own. [Smile]

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I think people do it because they love it, not because it's easier, cheaper, or better in any way.
Well, no.
I've built two computers in the last year. For each, I had some very specific requirements -- ranging from high power efficiency, quiet operation, a certain performance level, future expandability options, etc. -- that would have taken me hours to find from a vendor and would almost certainly have been considered "premium" options that warranted a ridiculous markup.

Both computers took me about an hour each to build (including the OS installation, but not including the multiple weeks I waited for various sales while ordering parts); one came in under $350, and one cost $500. The nearest commercial equivalents that I could find were $800 and $1500, respectively, and would still have contained inferior components.

A home builder cannot build a terrible machine as cheaply as a vendor can build a terrible machine. But a home builder can build a fantastic machine considerably more cheaply than he can obtain one from a vendor.

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Tstorm
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Yeah, even considering the problems I've had with my current 'main' machine, I'll still build my own next time. It is cheaper, even considering the time invested.

Home computers are quite different from cars or major appliances.

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Mr.Gumby
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Good grief! I can't want to have a place to put a new computer. I get more and more excited everytime I think about building my own, now.

Heck, part of me is curious just to see if I can pull it off.

Would it work?

Would it blow up?

The suspense is killing me!

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