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Author Topic: Ender's Game 2010
Danlo the Wild
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I worked out in the sun for a while today, then grabbed a book I hadn't read in a few years, my coverless Ender's Game. Smiled at the dedication to Geoffery and remembered the photo of him in the silly Viking hat playing me, popped open a beer and laid in a world class hammock.

And then devoured the book in one laying/sitting/laying.

It is even better the 7th time!

As a writer, I cannot express the amount of respect I have for this book, nor can I convey how it is proof to me that Orson Scott Card is a Prophet. He looked into the future with such uncanny clarity and explored so many moral issues very, very few people had even begun to imagine.

To me personally, it is a more powerful piece of writing than anything any church has produced in the last 100 years. For just as God speaks to all of us, the book is beautiful and speaks to any intelligent, empathetic living reading creature.

Orson Scott Card, Ender and Valentine have given me an inner strength, patience and understanding so many times through out some of the hardest times in my life. And for what? $6.50

That my friends is a bargain.

I do feel I have done a decent job being a disciple of Ender and Valentine, for when I worked at Borders Bookstore for 5 years, I moved about 1000 copies of Ender's Game out the door of our store.

I recommended it to everyone. Kids. Teenagers. Adults. Seniors. Men. Women. I asked thousands and thousands of people "Have you read Ender's Game?" I never had a single person utter a single negative word about it and I had hundreds come back and thanks me later "Thanks man! That was AWESOME!".

When Borders Corporation was ordering me to ask people if they'd read the GREAT new book "He's just not that into you", i'd substitute Ender's Game. Every single time they handed me a book I hated and told me I had to recommend it to every customer, I always said Ender instead. And my Manager never complained because A) I moved tons out the door and B) every manager loved that book.

So thank you again OSC and your wonderful wife for giving something so great to all of us. I really appreciate it.

sincerely

T

PS. When I read it, I couldn't help but watch it as a movie, and the latest greatest new idea is split in two movies. It is the best way to go.

Please make it great or don't make it at all.

Let me refer you to my "The Davinci Code" story. I worked at Borders during the whole craze, that book sold by the tons unlike many other books I'd seen there, even after years of being in print we had on average five people a day come in and buy it. It crossed all boundries of readers.

AND THEN THE MOVIE CAME OUT

and from that point on we averaged selling about one a week.

True story.

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MightyCow
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I'm going to name ever one of my children "Ender's Game" because it is my new god.
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Tara
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quote:
Originally posted by Danlo the Wild:


PS. When I read it, I couldn't help but watch it as a movie, and the latest greatest new idea is split in two movies. It is the best way to go.


[Confused]
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Danlo the Wild
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Either you have to cut out a bunch of key scenes by making it a single movie, or you split it into two movies and keep everything.

I would split it into two movies.

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Blayne Bradley
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They should make it an anime then they could keep all of the inner monologue exposition.
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Nick
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Inner monologues are one of the biggest problems with book/film adaptions IMO. Some of the monologues in Ender's Game are arguably what make it the outstanding book we all love. The only way to include them would be to have a narrator throughout the film. The only film I've seen pull it off was the Shawshank Redemption.
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Sean Monahan
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Then the answer is simple - "Ender's Game", starring Morgan Freeman.
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Blayne Bradley
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or they should make it a big budget anime directed by Hayao Miyazaki. The Don't kill people just because they're different aesop is one hes worked with before.
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Raymond Arnold
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Except Orson evidently intended the moral to be "it's okay to kill people who are different so long as you honestly believe it's self defense."
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
or they should make it a big budget anime directed by Hayao Miyazaki. The Don't kill people just because they're different aesop is one hes worked with before.

Anime appeals to specialists and geeky asiaphiles like you because it *isn't* mainstream. If this movie were made as an anime a) you would never be satisfied with it, and b) most people wouldn't like it because they wouldn't be in on the joke.

Anime fans need to realize that asking that big film projects be done in anime is like me asking them to be done as string quartets (which I have suggested, by the way), it's not something it will have serious appeal to many people, in all likelihood.

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Blayne Bradley
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Except of course that your wrong.

Anime *is* a mainstream or rather cartoon animation is mainstream medium of entertainment, its hugely popular with millions of people in at least three countries.

Specialists and asiaphiles are you serious? You don't have to be either to enjoy a good medium of creative expression, have you seen anything by Hayao Miyazaki(sp?)?

I'ld argue the single most compelling reason as noted above TO have it done animated is because I've only seen inner monogue expositions done properly in such a format which is some 70% of the content of any of Orson Scott Card's works.

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T:man
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Orincoro, have you ever seen anything from Studio Ghibli? Some of the best animated movies ever.
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Danlo the Wild
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The bottom line is you do what ever it takes to bring a wonderful story to life on the big screen, wether it be split into two movies, or make it an anime, or.....

who knows. Only time will tell.

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Itsame
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"Let me refer you to my "The Davinci Code" story. I worked at Borders during the whole craze, that book sold by the tons unlike many other books I'd seen there, even after years of being in print we had on average five people a day come in and buy it. It crossed all boundries of readers.

AND THEN THE MOVIE CAME OUT

and from that point on we averaged selling about one a week."

Correlation, causation, all that jazz. It could also be the case that because there's such a delay between the popularity of the book manifesting itself and the time it takes to make a movie, that everyone (or most people) who would have wanted to read the book already did. e.g., I was never interested in reading it. The creation of a movie had no effect on my opinion.

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Puffy Treat
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Anime is not a genre. Anymore than American animation is a genre. I think I'm going to join forces with Brad Bird and destroy the next person who discusses a medium as if it were a genre. [Wink]
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Tara
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I think a CGI format should be seriously considered for EG... It wouldn't necessarily have to be *anime*.


As for splitting it into two movies...I'm highly skeptical. Where in the story would there be a satisfactory ending for the first movie? Isn't the plot of EG one of its greatest strengths? The book has such a strong beginning, middle, and end... How could you break that up? A movie made up only of the first half of EG would be a nothing-movie.

Besides that, I really don't think EG is so long that it would even *need* two movies. It's a pretty short, concise book. Fitting everything in is not a serious problem with the EG movie... Finding actors to look all the different ages they would need to look IS, and that problem would be done away with the CGI format.

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Blayne Bradley
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anime ro cg would also solve the actor problem.
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Dobbie
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Monahan:
Then the answer is simple - "Ender's Game", starring Morgan Freeman.

I wish I could tell you that Ender fought the good fight, and they let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but Battle School is no fairy-tale world. He never said who did it, but we all knew. Things went on like that for awhile - Battle School consists of routine, and then more routine. Every so often, Ender would show up with fresh bruises. They kept at him - sometimes he was able to fight 'em off, sometimes not. And that's how it went for Ender - that was his routine. I do believe those first two years were the worst for him, and I also believe that if things had gone on that way, this place would have got the best of him.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:


Specialists and asiaphiles are you serious? You don't have to be either to enjoy a good medium of creative expression, have you seen anything by Hayao Miyazaki(sp?)?

I'm completely serious. You want a studio sized movie, with all the money and attention and advertising and hoopla that entails, and you want it done in a way that no studio in America has ever committed to on such a scale, and you expect that to actually happen? I'm not arguing about the quality of anime, but it is not the chief or even a favored medium in Hollywood, and this will be a Hollywood movie. OSC clearly wants a Hollywood tentpole movie, and so far anime has never driven a tentpole film in America (excepting where it is used in contrast with live action).

Congratulations on anime being wildly popular in a lot of places, but it is not a multigenerational marketing force in California, and that is all that matters in this case. CGI *might* get the kind of attention that live action would get, but unless they wait a lot of years to make this movie, and depend on it doing really well in Japan, and with viewers under 26, neither of which scenarios are likely, it will simply not be done in anime. It's a losing battle- we're talking about hollywood, not The Perfect World of Blayne and Friends.

Part of the problem that anime has in America is that it's too cheap. It's doesn't make financial sense of a studio to invest a relatively small amount of money in a project potentially worth so much more. That's part of what makes Hollywood a crap-producer in the first place, they latch onto the ideas that generate money, and follow them. In this case, if they spent 10 million on producing an anime film, they would only feel comfortable marketing it in a much smaller way, but with a tentpole live action movie that would cost 200 million or even 100 million, they would be sinking tens of millions into international advertising to recoup the profits- thus the expensive films get more exposure because they are such a big commitment. Plus, if they took their good ideas and refused to produce them using huge film crews, big name actors, production companies, directors, photographers, etc, they wouldn't exactly be serving the Hollywood money machine, now would they? You don't think these people lobby to make sure the big movies keep getting produced the expensive way? You think it's only a coincidence that A-list actors now get the voice-over jobs in studio CGI pics that voice actors used to get? Anime is a niche because it is easier to do- and more can be produced for smaller and smaller markets. Not necessarily saying it is inferior, but it is undeniably simpler to complete an anime project than a big budget effects movie, by orders of magnitude. Thus, there is no push to create anime films with wide consumer appeal. That seems like economics 101 to me, but I never studied the subject, so if someone has more insight than that, I'd love to hear it.

[ May 31, 2009, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]

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Blayne Bradley
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Nah, none of that makes any sense, they won't do it because its cheaper and easier to do...? Alot of what your saying seems like rambling along with no clear point. Thats broken, I think we could have a successful Animated film of Ender's Game and there have been several successful animated films if people nudged it in the right direction.

As it stands now though I have alot more confidence in Halo being made into a successful movie then Ender's Game.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Alot of what your saying seems like rambling along with no clear point.

Funny, coming from you.

Clearly you spent no actual brain power considering the point. Yes, it's possible that for economic reasons, doing things the easy way is not ultimately desirable- certainly not when you stand to make a lot more money if you do things the hard way.

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Blayne Bradley
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If the point cannot be gained after a quick read then its not worth the nonexistent paper it is not written on.

Any money earned from Ender's Game from a big budget live action production that at the same time rapes the reasons why Ender's Game is a good book to begin with by turning it into a degenerate buddy buddy action film is money thats only good for being burned.

I have little confidence in the ability of Live Action to capture anything but the most obvious and blunt messages from the book, Animation or CGI to a lesser extent can go much further with subtlety AND you can actually get decent voice actors.

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Orincoro
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Again Blayne, the Happy Perfect World of Blayne and Friends is a great place to live in, and I don't disagree with the sentiment, but it has nothing to do with the actual economics of the situation. Don't mistake my mentioning this for tacitly disagreeing with your feelings on it. I agree, but you don't live in the real world, typically.


quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
If the point cannot be gained after a quick read then its not worth the nonexistent paper it is not written on.

That's all I need to know about your attitude to anything you don't immediately agree with or understand. Go back to your video games if you can't bear to listen to others.
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ricree101
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quote:
Originally posted by Tara:
I think a CGI format should be seriously considered for EG... It wouldn't necessarily have to be *anime*.

I still think so too, although if I remember correctly, Mr Card dismissed it out of hand the last time I suggested it on these boards.

Part of the problem, I think, is that animation, especially of humans, has had a mediocre track record portraying emotion. Most of the cgi I can think of that did a good job with this either focused on nonhumans or overly stylized humans, and my understanding was that this was not acceptable to Mr Card.

I tend to disagree with this view. I look to the rapid pace of improvement in character expression in cgi, and when combined with the long delays in adapting Ender's Game so far, I think that there is a strong chance that by the time it is ready to film, the art will have advanced enough to pull it off.

Cgi would solve a lot of issues that would come with resting a serious movie in the hands of so many child actors, as well as probably allowing them to stick closer to the way that conflicts between the children were portrayed in the book.


PS:
I couldn't dig up the thread that I remembered Mr Card giving his opinion on a cgi Ender's Game, so if I am misremembering, or otherwise incorrectly expressing his opinions, I apologize.

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Jamio
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So...Does it matter whether Ender's Game: the Movie is a blockbuster? Because if it really could make a good anime film, and the only people who saw it were specialists and asiaphiles, why not?

I'm not sold on the idea yet, though. The only anime I've ever seen was very shiny-pretty. Ender's Game doesn't feel like that to me.

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aiua
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Nice one, Dobbie.
You know, there are actually a good number of parallels between Shawshank and Ender's Game.

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Orincoro
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Let me just rub my fingers against my thumb to demonstrate the thinking behind making it a blockbuster.

OSC is quite strongly on the record as wanting the film to be something on the order of an ET. That is, not just a blockbuster, but a mega-blockbuster.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by aiua:
Nice one, Dobbie.
You know, there are actually a good number of parallels between Shawshank and Ender's Game.

Only in the sense that there are tropes that Stephen King and OSC both employed in order to create sympathetic characters.

Brilliant white male commits (allegedly) heinous act of violence, the results or truth of which is not immediately known, gets sent to confinement where his cunning and spirit are tested by other already inside, befriends a black person (Irish in Kings story) who helps him assimilate into a group, is noticed by superiors and elevated to a trusted position so that they can take advantage of his unique skills, takes a younger person under his wing, subtly asserts leadership over the others in the group, eventually escapes with his life to voluntary exile, feeling all of the guilt of his deeds, whether they were truly his fault or not.

That applies to hundreds and thousands of stories. In fact, it also fits fairly well with Harry Potter if you phrase it correctly. The trick is phrasing it correctly, because it's very easy to pick out a story teller's craft and act like that summation defines the story.

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Herblay
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An anime, western animation, or cgi would NEVER reach mainstream . . . unless it was done by Pixar.

The more "genre" you go, the less likely your chances of a mainstream success. Even the most commercially successful animes, Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke were box office failures compared to most low budget live action flicks. More likely, the studio will get scared and pull funding . . . end up with another DragonLance. Even big voice talent couldn't save that stinker.

Big budget, and they're likely to massacre the story. Unless they go artsy AND big budget. I doubt the source material can warrant the funding required to hit this scale (LOTR, Matrix). If the right hands are on the wheel . . .

Lion's Gate used to have a lot of trash, but they've put more money into their flicks and got a lot more commercial success as of late. That would probably be the safest bet. It'd be the most likely to retain storyline, use artfully done storytelling, throw out a moderate budget, and have some chance at commercial success. It may not make the most money, but it'd be the best movie.

Or just get Pixar.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
Let me just rub my fingers against my thumb to demonstrate the thinking behind making it a blockbuster.

OSC is quite strongly on the record as wanting the film to be something on the order of an ET. That is, not just a blockbuster, but a mega-blockbuster.

And right now all he has is the next euthenism for vaporware.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
Again Blayne, the Happy Perfect World of Blayne and Friends is a great place to live in, and I don't disagree with the sentiment, but it has nothing to do with the actual economics of the situation. Don't mistake my mentioning this for tacitly disagreeing with your feelings on it. I agree, but you don't live in the real world, typically.


quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
If the point cannot be gained after a quick read then its not worth the nonexistent paper it is not written on.

That's all I need to know about your attitude to anything you don't immediately agree with or understand. Go back to your video games if you can't bear to listen to others.
And you can go back to screwing your cousin and flipper grand children you ad hominid inducing twat.
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Herblay
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Yeah, Pixar. Kind of like like Up meets Wall-E meets Stand by Me. With a little bit of Alien and Fight Club thrown in.

And maybe a hobbit. Bean maybe? You wouldn't have to SAY that he was a hobbit...

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dread pirate romany
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
I'm going to name ever one of my children "Ender's Game" because it is my new god.

It's much less obvious to have three kids, make sure the last one is a boy and name him Andrew.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:

And you can go back to screwing your cousin and flipper grand children you ad hominem inducing twat.

Fixed that for you.
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Herblay
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Isn't it kind of an abbreviation? Ad hominem is attacking someone's character rather than answering their argument --- and hominid is a family of two legged primates.

So he's making a new word that specifies that the attacker is human . . . or at least somewhat related.

Are you somewhat related to humans Orincoro? His grammer might technically be correct.

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El JT de Spang
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Blayne, I whistled your post.

Also, grow up.

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Orincoro
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I've rarely known Blayne's grammar to be technically correct. Back when he first started posting about communism and video games years ago, I thought he might be a Chinese propaganda plant with a poor grasp of the idiom... but no.

I also speculated that he meant "flipping," because I can't quite imagine what "flipper" might mean in that context (obvious dolphin jokes aside).

Also, I rather think he meant "invoking," rather than inducing, although I do as often induce as invoke ad hominems I suppose. In this case it's a bit unclear because Blayne's argument was the emotional one, aside from my criticism of his being lazy and immature.

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Herblay
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You seem to have a habit of antagonizing people for sport, Orincoro. Is that you're idea of fun?

Seriously. You seem to be purposefully inflammatory for absolutely no good reason.

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Raymond Arnold
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That seems to be going both ways here. Seriously, grow up the both of you. (Orin and Blayne, not Herb)
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Blayne Bradley
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Blah Blah Blah Orincolo's a jerk and nobody likes him.

:edited to be less offencive to the real flipper children out there.

[ May 31, 2009, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]

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Papa Janitor
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Orincoro, Herb's comment is not unfounded -- you do seem to be unnecessarily inflammatory at times, and it seems most everyone wishes you'd stop.

Blayne, that doesn't mean you have permission to go overboard, either. Your posts are unacceptable and you know it -- knock it off.

--PJ

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TomDavidson
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For a second there, I was worried that I'd accidentally connected to 4chan. But then I realized no one had posted a pic of Hillary Clinton yet.
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Orincoro
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I'm sorry PJ. You're right. I'll stop posting- it's been fun.

Thanks.

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Dobbie
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Are Blayne and Orinoco two different people?
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The Reader
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quote:
Originally posted by Herblay:
Or just get Pixar.

That seems to be the simplest answer.

If only Pixar could have made Firefly...

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Tara
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Grow up, Orincoro.

And, honestly, I agree with Blayne in this situation. I'd rather EG be an incredibly good low-budget low-profile movie than a run-of-the-mill Hollywood action movie. Apparently OSC wants to change everything about Hollywood in order to make the perfect movie: mainstream, high-budget, completely controled by him, and completely faithful to the book. Of course it would be awesome it that were possible, but I'm guessing he'll end up compromising something or other along the way.

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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by JonHecht:
"Let me refer you to my "The Davinci Code" story. I worked at Borders during the whole craze, that book sold by the tons unlike many other books I'd seen there, even after years of being in print we had on average five people a day come in and buy it. It crossed all boundries of readers.

AND THEN THE MOVIE CAME OUT

and from that point on we averaged selling about one a week."

Correlation, causation, all that jazz. It could also be the case that because there's such a delay between the popularity of the book manifesting itself and the time it takes to make a movie, that everyone (or most people) who would have wanted to read the book already did. e.g., I was never interested in reading it. The creation of a movie had no effect on my opinion.

Not to mention that most of it's target audiences had already read/bought the book in the 5 years between the book and the movie.
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Onanism
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I am posting in this high quality thread.
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Raymond Arnold
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[ROFL]
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Tara:
Grow up, Orincoro.

And, honestly, I agree with Blayne in this situation. I'd rather EG be an incredibly good low-budget low-profile movie than a run-of-the-mill Hollywood action movie. Apparently OSC wants to change everything about Hollywood in order to make the perfect movie: mainstream, high-budget, completely controled by him, and completely faithful to the book. Of course it would be awesome it that were possible, but I'm guessing he'll end up compromising something or other along the way.

Hi Five!
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