According to the article, the company that supplied building materials to the Palin family for their home was awarded the contract to build a $13 Million hockey arena in Wasilla, the most expensive project in Wasilla history.
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If I hadn't felt it needed its own thread, I may have done it that way. But I didn't, so it couldn't.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Jun 2001
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So...you guys are aware that the *only* company in Wasilla, Alaska with the resources and contracting connections to undertake *any* large construction project is Spenard Building Supply, right? There are no other building companies in Wasilla, AK that are capable of contracting for such a large project. The only other building suppliers in Wasilla are Lowe's and Home Depot, neither of which do any contracting. Even if they did, a primarily Alaskan company is *going* to be awarded a building project over a nationwide chain. That's the way things work there.
Having lived in Alaska for a period of time, it doesn't surprise me that the project was bungled. It takes 24 hours to fix a flat tire in Alaska. The level of professionalism of almost every company there is beyond sub-par.
Now, if you want to find a real scandal in this, you should look at how the funds for the Hockey Stadium were appropriated. But I'm betting you won't find anything there. That level of appropriation would require a bill on a city election. In the year I lived in Alaska, there were no fewer than 5 special city elections that occurred. All of which made me think, "Why are we having an election for this?"
This, like just about everything else that's been dug up on Palin, looks to me like just another smear campaign. I'm not a fan of her, I don't think she has the experience necessary to run the country, despite doing a pretty good job of cleaning up the high levels of corruption in Alaska. But what everyone who hasn't lived in Alaska always fails to realize is that life is *extremely* different there. You absolutely cannot use your own experiences in examining anything that happens there.
Of course she awarded the hockey stadium project to the same company that provided building materials for her house. There wasn't another company in Wasilla that provides all the necessary building materials *and* does construction contracting in the city.
I swear. I have not, in my entire life, seen so many people trying so hard to dig up anything on a single person. Really. I'm not surprised she resigned. I don't think Bill Clinton had to deal with this level of scrutiny.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Am I misreading, or is the allegation that they helped her build her home at no or reduced cost?
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Boris: Of course she awarded the hockey stadium project to the same company that provided building materials for her house. There wasn't another company in Wasilla that provides all the necessary building materials *and* does construction contracting in the city.
Boris, the facts of this case alone warrant attention. The tax payers of Alaska have every right to have the dealings of their politicians investigated if those activities indicate the possibility of corruption. We shouldn't go nuts about it, but if there's something there, we can find it, and if there isn't something there, then we can find that out too. The problem with this case has been that Palin and her husband did not provide satisfactory records of how they procured the materials and labor for that house. Normally, you're absolutely right, you'd expect that. The problem is of course that she was the mayor, and those materials, and possibly that labor, could have come to her as an illegal gift. I don't know if we should have expected her to be more careful, but the fact that she hasn't produced any evidence means that we need to investigate. It is not her job to prove her innocence, which is why investigation is necessary to prove guilt, if any. That's the way it works- you don't look at the situation with an absence of *any* information, and say, "well, it's probably nothing." It is probably nothing, but the government has every right to be concerned.
I take my own personal experience into account. Being the son of a small town mayor myself, in California, I recall my father doing business with local contractors who also did business with the city. We've talked about this particular situation- he's told me he was always very careful to keep records of his expenses, and he was never once investigated for any type of fraud. He was sued by an out of town real-estate investor who wanted to build a house next to ours, and was unable to get approval for the plan from the city. Had my father then proceeded to run for national office, you can bet that would have been an issue, and rightfully so. In that particular case, the case was dismissed because my father had in fact done nothing out of the ordinary. Still, the fact is that he was mayor, and the staff under his direction did something that personally benefited him- that developer was right to suspect him. In that case, the plan happened to call for a harmful effect on the city infrastructure, and the city was within its rights to deny the request, but an outsider shouldn't be expected to know that intuitively. Sometimes people do abuse their power.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Am I misreading, or is the allegation that they helped her build her home at no or reduced cost?
Yes, and that she failed to declare this fact on her taxes. It would be a federal tax fraud case, as well as an abuse of her position as mayor.
her husband has been unable or unwilling to account for the labor costs, as far as I know, saying it was done by him and his friends- which is of course a possibility.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I'm not saying it's wrong for the government to investigate. I'm saying it's wrong to pass summary judgment prior *to* the investigation, which is what is happening all over the place. The blog that was linked is very biased in this regard, all but stating flat out that she did this without any qualifying information.
There is also an additional twist to this. Say the company did provide materials at a decreased cost. Palin's husband was on a Snow-mobile team that was sponsored by SBS. It's just as easy for them to offer a discount to someone they sponsor in a sporting event as it is to offer it as a favor for future official favors.
And, might I add, the information about your father's position is not really relevant here, Orincoro. No one investigated him for fraud because no one had a reason to. In her short period as Governor of Alaska, Palin has pissed in the pockets of a great number of unbelievably corrupt individuals.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Boris: There is also an additional twist to this. Say the company did provide materials at a decreased cost. Palin's husband was on a Snow-mobile team that was sponsored by SBS. It's just as easy for them to offer a discount to someone they sponsor in a sporting event as it is to offer it as a favor for future official favors.
It would obviously be very foolish of the Palins to accept such an offer. However if they had, they would have had no reason not to disclose it, which they haven't done.
The reason they haven't disclosed it, if it in fact happened, is that it would likely still cause enormous problems. A politician such as Palin should not accept personal gifts from people whom she is in a position to help politically. It would be tantamount to corruption no matter why they received it. Yes, I understand you see a distinction, but it would have been the Palins receiving gifts from a company that the mayor could then be in a position to reward.
Besides, you've just conjured that explanation from nowhere- why is that a better explanation, and more importantly, in what way does it make accepting such things more reasonable? It's still coming from the same company, and going to the same people. The justification for it is academic, and it doesn't matter how it's justified anyway, politicians shouldn't accept personal gifts because it creates the possibility of a conflict of interest.
And aside from all of that, the federal investigation is about tax fraud, as far as I've gathered, and the Palins are responsible for paying the same taxes.
As to your other point, so what? "People shouldn't be saying this stuff," is always a week stand to take on any issue. There are 300 million people in America, and the ones who don't like Palin have every right, within the law, to disparage and cast scorn upon her until the end of time. The value of their words is only as good as their ability to get people to listen- the worst ones diminish themselves, or people like you and me talk about how stupid and cynical and wrongheaded they are, and we stop listening to them. Easy. Even better, the worst ones get power hungry, jump in over their heads, turn into laughable parodies of their positions, and give you and me something to laugh at... hey wait a second, Palin is one of those people too. Well can you beat that!?
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: Even better, the worst ones get power hungry, jump in over their heads, turn into laughable parodies of their positions, and give you and me something to laugh at
Can you prove this is the case with Palin, or are you just assuming it is? Having actually met Palin while living in Alaska, I can tell you she has a strong desire to do the right thing. And she's done quite a bit to clear out the corruption in Alaska. A lot of this crap is coming to light simply because she's pissed off so many corrupt politicians and lobbyists in her time as Governor. To say that she got power hungry and went crazy is a major assumption, don't you think? Isn't it just as likely that she saw an opportunity to make what she saw as necessary changes, realized that the people around her weren't going to do so, and went her own way?
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Having actually met Palin while living in Alaska, I can tell you she has a strong desire to do the right thing. And she's done quite a bit to clear out the corruption in Alaska. A lot of this crap is coming to light simply because she's pissed off so many corrupt politicians and lobbyists in her time as Governor. To say that she got power hungry and went crazy is a major assumption, don't you think? Isn't it just as likely that she saw an opportunity to make what she saw as necessary changes, realized that the people around her weren't going to do so, and went her own way? [/QB]
Having met someone doesn't mean that you have substantial information about their true character, particularly when people tend to pretty complex beings by default. It takes a lot of time to really know someone inside out. While Palin has have successfully cleared out corruption, it doesn't mean she is immune to corruption herself. It would be hypocrisy on her part, of course, but that wouldn't be the first time a politician is a hypocrite.
Receiving gifts from parties she is in a position to reward thanks to her political position is a massive no-no. If she doesn't realize this, then that makes her more untrustworthy and incompetent as a politician.
But I'm not saying she is corrupt, as we don't have any proof yet, and she might indeed be completely innocent.
I don't think it makes much sense to say these things are coming to light primarily because she has pissed off corrupt politicians and lobbyists. I think a more logical reason for the spotlight is her status as a Republican VP nominee in the 2008 presidential elections, and the fact that she became one of the most famous and talked-about American politicians as a result of the campaign.
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If a politician with her status has some possible shady business concerning corruption or tax fraud, OF COURSE it's going to be investigated. Over the last year we've seen several notable democrat politicians being publicly investigated for tax frauds - They are not immune to these kind of investigations, either.
Posts: 273 | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote: Even better, the worst ones get power hungry, jump in over their heads, turn into laughable parodies of their positions, and give you and me something to laugh at
Can you prove this is the case with Palin, or are you just assuming it is? Having actually met Palin while living in Alaska, I can tell you she has a strong desire to do the right thing. And she's done quite a bit to clear out the corruption in Alaska. A lot of this crap is coming to light simply because she's pissed off so many corrupt politicians and lobbyists in her time as Governor. To say that she got power hungry and went crazy is a major assumption, don't you think? Isn't it just as likely that she saw an opportunity to make what she saw as necessary changes, realized that the people around her weren't going to do so, and went her own way?
Well, all I can tell you is that your view on this flies in the face of everything, but everything I've read about her tenure as governor, and earlier as mayor. The story has been one of irascibility, obstinacy, self-contradiction, blatant lying, and petulance. I really don't honestly think that *all* that boils down to a liberal smear campaign- these are things she has confirmed with her own words and deeds in public.
I believe that you think she has good intentions, and she may in fact have good intentions. But her conception of acceptable behavior, as far as every, single, solitary, piece of information I have ever seen about her, is royally screwed up. I don't have to meet her anyway to know that I'm not going to like a person who says things in public that she said during her Vp campaign, and moreover says them from a position of superiority. "Real America" my ass. Anybody who talks like that is an asshat.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I don't think a scandal is necessary to explain what she did. A few months back, some heads of the Alaska legislature had a meeting, and asked her what her ideas were for the upcoming session. She accused them of trying to trap her with a trick question.
I think she likes giving speeches to adoring crowds, and she likes winning. I don't think she likes governing. She can make a living at the former now, she doesn't need to bother with the latter.
Posts: 575 | Registered: Feb 2007
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I bet it turns out her 14 year old got pregnant. After the brouhaha with Letterman, that would destroy her.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I think it is entirely possible that she resigned to protect her children, including the 14-year-old, from the viscious vultures who wish destruction and tragedy for her family just for kicks.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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If that were her reason, she could have announced that pretty easily and would have garnered a fair bit of sympathy for it. It would, however, have precluded her from continuing on in public life as her representatives said she is planning on doing.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Honestly, I thought that a scandal would have broken by now considering how desperate and nonsensical her announcement was.
It could very well be that the pressure (and let's be honest here, she's had a whole lot of pressure put on her) had gotten too much for her and she's trying to get some psychological and financial breathing room. While I believe that she has no business seeking higher office, I can't help but feel for her in that case. Yeah, she was in way over her head and her conduct was kind of despicable, but she's done now and people shouldn't be beating on her so much.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Besides, the FBI has stated publicly that there is no ongoing investigation into Palin's finances, categorically. That supports was you're saying- the talk about a new scandal was pretty much a combination of all the old crap being regurgitated, and the bizarritude of her announcement. Good riddance I say- if I never hear from her again it will be too soon.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh:
quote:couldnt this have gone into the other thread?
Heh, if that's the joke I hope it is, it's funny, Blayne:)
see if even i notice somethings wierd you know something weird.
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