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Author Topic: My sermon available online: "Why Is Nature Red in Tooth and Claw?"
Ron Lambert
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If anyone is interested, they made a recording of my sermon at church Sabbath morning (Sept. 5, 2009), and posted it on line at our church's website--like we do all sermons preached at the New Haven, Mich. SDA Church. It is an MP3 file. Here is the link:
http://www.nhchurch.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=198:september-5-why-red-in-tooth-and-claw&catid=55:2009sermons&Itemid=73

[ September 07, 2009, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Samprimary
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heh. "ongst"
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Ron Lambert
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I believe that is spelled "angst," Samprimary.

The first speaker is another elder, who gives the scripture reading. Mine is the second, somewhat deeper voice. The sermon is 17 min., 45 seconds, so it is fairly short.

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The Rabbit
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If that's a fairly short sermon, I'm glad I'm not a member of your congregation.
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Dr Strangelove
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I'll try to listen to it when I get some time. I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say. And 18 minutes is a pretty short sermon, at least where I come from. It's when it creeps up to an hour that I start to think it's a bit long.
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Ron Lambert
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Rabbit, that 17 min. 45 sec figure includes the scripture reading. So my sermon was actually more like 17 min. That is very short. A more typical sermon length in an Adventist church is about 30 minutes. Sermons in many churches, like some Baptist churches I have been in, will run an hour or more--or until the pastor gets hoarse. The Apostle Paul at Troas, according to Luke in the original language, was preaching "on and on" until finally Eutychus went to sleep and fell out of a window. He was feared dead, but was miraculously restored to life. (See Acts 20:9)
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
If that's a fairly short sermon, I'm glad I'm not a member of your congregation.

That was kind of rude Rabbit. If anything, in sacrament meetings at the wards I've been to growing up, 17 minutes was pretty standard for a talk from an adult.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
If that's a fairly short sermon, I'm glad I'm not a member of your congregation.

That was kind of rude Rabbit. If anything, in sacrament meetings at the wards I've been to growing up, 17 minutes was pretty standard for a talk from an adult.
Yes, in the ward's I've lived in most adults are asked to speak for 15 minutes but many run over, 17 is probably a bit on the long side of average but not by much. 17 minutes is really close to the length of the longer talks at General Conference. For me, that its a fairly average to slightly long Sermon. I would just never think of it as a fairly short Sermon. I'm sorry if that came across as rude.

And rude or not, I'm quite glad that I don't belong to a church where Sermon's are typical twice that length or more. It wasn't intended as an insult to Ron or anyone else. If you enjoy Sermon's that go on for hours and hours, I won't try to stop you from listening to them. But to me, it would be near torture.

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
The Apostle Paul at Troas, according to Luke in the original language, was preaching "on and on" until finally Eutychus went to sleep and fell out of a window. He was feared dead, but was miraculously restored to life. (See Acts 20:9)

Another one of the many reasons that I am not particularly fond of the Apostle Paul. I mean its great that Paul miraculously restored this man to life. I just think it would have been a whole lot better if he hadn't bored the guy to death (literally) in the first place.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I believe that is spelled "angst," Samprimary.

I know. I'm laughing at the fact that you don't know how to pronounce the word.
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TL
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How cool would it be if you would surprise us all by being decent once in a while?
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Ron Lambert
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Samprimary, if you go to Webster's online Dictionary and listen to the pronunciation, I pronounced it exactly the way the speaker there does. "Ahngst."
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Ron Lambert
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Rabbit, my impression has always been that Eutychus just had the breath knocked out of him, perhaps was unconscious, but Paul could feel he still had a pulse. That is likely why he said, "His life is still in him." Then he probably gave him mouth-to-mouth, and as soon as Eutychus' lungs were reinflated, he was fine. I certainly do believe in miracles, but I question whether this one really was.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
If that's a fairly short sermon, I'm glad I'm not a member of your congregation.

That was kind of rude Rabbit. If anything, in sacrament meetings at the wards I've been to growing up, 17 minutes was pretty standard for a talk from an adult.
Yes, in the ward's I've lived in most adults are asked to speak for 15 minutes but many run over, 17 is probably a bit on the long side of average but not by much. 17 minutes is really close to the length of the longer talks at General Conference. For me, that its a fairly average to slightly long Sermon. I would just never think of it as a fairly short Sermon. I'm sorry if that came across as rude.

And rude or not, I'm quite glad that I don't belong to a church where Sermon's are typical twice that length or more. It wasn't intended as an insult to Ron or anyone else. If you enjoy Sermon's that go on for hours and hours, I won't try to stop you from listening to them. But to me, it would be near torture.

I apologize if my malice meter pinged amiss. [Smile]

Conference talks routinely hit 25- 30 minutes IIRC. I wouldn't say I love long talks, in fact, I am fairly convinced that I have some small version of attention deficit disorder. Unless I am sitting next to a friend or family member and talking about the speakers comments for the duration of the talk, I lose track of the talk for many minutes in just a few seconds. Only the most riveting or well crafted talks hold my attention unaided.

I have alot of difficulty figuring out what to do, as if I talk to say my brother about what is being said for the entire sermon, so as to be paying attention, I risk the disapproving stares of those nearby. If I don't, I feel guilty every time a talk concludes, and I have been distracted for the majority of the lecture.

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Parkour
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Samprimary, if you go to Webster's online Dictionary and listen to the pronunciation, I pronounced it exactly the way the speaker there does. "Ahngst."

Really! that is fascinating. If that is how people have pronounced it in your region, carry on. Just for reference however, IPA puts the word as ŋkst

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/En-ca-synth-angst.ogg

Have a super great time sermoning!

Love and hugs,

Sam

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Ron Lambert
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My Homiletics teacher said that when you go past 30 minutes--or 12:00 noon, however you want to measure it--you reach "the point of diminishing returns."

It helps if you say something new and interesting in your sermon, that perhaps has not been addressed before. This is what I always try to do. Of course, keeping up the novelty might get pretty difficult, if I had to preach every week, instead of once every couple of months. If you are a faithful Bible scholar, and continue to study and grow in Scripture, you usually do discover new insights fairly frequently.

I believe it also helps if you add a lot of anecdotes--especially if they are personal experiences that are relevant. People remember stories a lot easier than any other form of discourse. This is why Jesus Christ told so many parables.

I had one person come up to me after the sermon and say that she was glad to be reassured that her pets will be with her in the New Earth. I was glad she got that out of it, because I do believe our pets will be resurrected. Jesus said He will give us anything we ask for, so if we ask for our pets to join us in the New Earth, why would He say no? And the animals have suffered and died for our sakes, and played their part in encouraging us to be saved. Not to mention the loving companionship our pets give us, that make our lives easier.

And it did get a good chuckle when I asked wouldn't it be ironic of Baalim is not in the New Earth, but Baalim's donkey is? I think the donkey will be.

[ September 07, 2009, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Ron Lambert
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Parkour (Sam?), 'aŋ(k)st (aingst) sounds "Southern." But Websters does give both pronunciations. The one I used, 'ŋ(k)st (ahngst), is given first, meaning it is the more common.

[ September 07, 2009, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Samprimary
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quote:
Love and hugs,

Sam

if you are trying to impersonate me I think people have settled on my name being "Samp"

or if not hey welcome to having a common as dirt name, thrillsville I know

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Conference talks routinely hit 25- 30 minutes IIRC.
Your memory is incorrect on this one, but then few people actually watch the clock during conference and a 17 minute talk can easily feel longer. Check the church website. Conference sessions in recent years feature 6 or 7 speakers, plus prayers, announcements and songs in a two hour time slot. That leaves less than 20 minutes per speaker. When they have 7 speakers, two typically split a time slot. I have a number I've down loaded as MP3s. None of them are longer than 20 minutes. For the sunday sessions, the long talks run ~17 minutes, and the short ones around half that. Since the sessions are broadcast, they have to keep to the schedule. I haven't checked the Priesthood session talks. Since those aren't broadcast they may be a little more flexible on the time but the days when Legrand Richards ran overtime every conference and the closing prayer didn't get broadcast are long gone.
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Ron Lambert
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Much shorter, and they would have to be called "sermonettes."
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The Rabbit
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Angst is a german word that has been adopted in English and the proper German pronunciation is closer to "ongst" than " "engst" although the German (at least in the regions I've lived) actually falls sort of between the two. The vowel is an "ah" but a very short "ah", not a long one.
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Ron Lambert
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Ah yes--Dr. Sigmund Freud caused us all a lot of "angst"!

English is very good at adopting words. That's why it is the largest language in the world. Last I heard, it has over 800,000 words. The next largest is French, with 600,000--but a lot of those are borrowed from English. Most, of course, are nouns, because we are such inventive, materialistic cultures.

I wonder, when they say that about English--do they mean American English, or British English? And are they including the "boot" and "bonnet" of a car? And things like "lorry"?

I forgot who it was who stated that England and America are the only two nations divided by the same language.

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Dogbreath
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Your 17 minute sermons make me envious... typically church is about half an hour of singing/announcements/special stuff, and then a good hour and a half of sermon. The shortest I've ever seen was 45 minutes.
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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
I forgot who it was who stated that England and America are the only two nations divided by the same language.

My google-fu tells me it was Shaw.
<edit>Although further searching shows a lack of consensus on the matter. Others attribute it to Wilde, Twain, Churchill and a host of others. However, Shaw seems to be the most often and authoritatively cited. The Yale book of quotations cites a 1942 Reader's Digest that sources him as the author, although within the RD article there was no source attribution, and it doesn't appear to exist in any of Shaw's published works. Evidently the Oxford Book of Quotations also sources it to Shaw, again with a note that it isn't found in his written works.</edit>

[ September 09, 2009, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: SenojRetep ]

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msquared
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I love being Catholic. Our homilies are usually no longer than 5-10 minutes.

When I started joining my wife at her church for sevices, I was astounded at the differences between her UCC and the Catholic church on the progression of the service.

My church has a membership of 10,000 and hers about 700.

Her service goes 1 hour 1o minutes on a regular basis and they do not do communion every service.

What makes their service long is that they sing every verse of every hymn (sp?)/song. At the Catholic churh, it is two verses and out. We get communion and collection from the thousand plus at each service in just around 45 minutes.

msquared

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The Rabbit
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Who ever said it seems to be unfamiliar with the countries of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Barbados, Jamaica, Belize, Trinidad and Tobago, Kenya, Namibia, Uganda, Nigeria, Ghana, Guyana or a few dozen other countries who use English as an official language.
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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
Who ever said it seems to be unfamiliar with the countries of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Barbados, Jamaica, Belize, Trinidad and Tobago, Kenya, Namibia, Uganda, Nigeria, Ghana, Guyana or a few dozen other countries who use English as an official language.

The quote in the Yale book of quotations is actually
quote:
England and America are two countries separated by the same language
The "only" appears in some online versions of the quote and not in others.
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aspectre
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A Paradise Built in Hell
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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
Your 17 minute sermons make me envious... typically church is about half an hour of singing/announcements/special stuff, and then a good hour and a half of sermon. The shortest I've ever seen was 45 minutes.

The obvious solution to having boring sermons is to not go to church.
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Ron Lambert
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The following statement by the Apostle Paul about the "foolishness of preaching" has been a cause for amusement to many preachers and those who listen to them:
quote:
"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Cor. 1:21)
Of course that does not mean we should equate "foolish" with "boring."
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