posted
I have been on strike many times. Does your union have a defense fund? (This will pay you your wages or a portion thereof during the strike.)
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
They do have a strike fund. The biggewst issue seems to be wages and wage increases along with insurance. I'm a member of the union, but won't be attending the strike vote. I'm going to spend the weekend totally stressed out.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Please don't stress. Many things in life we worry about never come to pass, bad times don't last forever, and at this stage in negotiations there is bound to be a lot of inflammatory talk, from both sides (much of this is simply posturing, and much is simply the human tendency to "stir up discontent.")
Later today when I have more time I'd like to post some thoughts to share with you based on my experiences.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Much depends on the Union and the Employer and how dirty they want to play. History is full of employers who've brought in armed militia to destroy strikers. Its full of union thugs who destroy those who cross the line.
Usually its all about the intimidation.
It would be interesting if all business negotiations were done the same way that labor negotiations are routinely handled--intimidation.
The employer is purchasing your labor. They believe that they should be able to negotiate with you separately from all the other people looking to do your job.
The union believes that the labor should be purchased more along the lines of any other product or service.
In other words, when the store buys its apples it doesn't go up to each apple and say, "I'll pay 3 cents for you. Take it or leave, cause that other apple over there will take it."
On the other hand the Union would say, "Listen Mr. Grocery store owner, you'll pay fifty cents for each apple, and that includes the rotten ones, the bruised and broken, and the good. If not, you won't get any apples. Worse, we'll make sure you don't get any fruit at all."
Of course, the going sales price for Apples, to be competitive is 35 cents. The cost to grow an apple is 20 cents. In one case you have the apple losing money to go to work. In the other you have an owner losing money with each apple he sells.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I'm off work now and have a little more time to post in detail.
A caveat: these comments aren't meant to endorse or condone or condemn anyone or anything or any point of view. If you read my comments and want to voice your opinions regarding greedy CEO's or union mobsters or anything else, fine. All I want to do is offer a few bits of practical advice born from experience.
You didn't mention whether you are worried primarily about the fact that you may be on strike and without your normal pay, or whether you will work through the strike and face unpleasantness at the picket line, so I will address both.
If you plan to strike: a)in some states, you do qualify for unemployment benefits during a "work stoppage," which includes strikes called by a union certified to represent your work group. b) If you have belonged to the union and have contributed to strike defense fund, you may be entitled to "strike pay." This is normally a flat payment which is a portion of your normal pay. In return, you are asked to picket a set number of hours per week. The union will normally tell people at the meeting how much the strike pay will be and HOW LONG IT WILL BE EXPECTED TO LAST. c) call all of your creditors and explain the situation. Most of them offer some consideration during a strike, which would range from a reduced payment or forgiveness of a bill, or the chance to make a short-term modification (i.e., taking an interest-only payment for a few months and extending the period of a loan) or even forgoing payment of utilities, etc. Some landlords will allow you to, since you're off-work, do some work for them in lieu of paying rent that month. And many creditors/ utilities will do this without making any adverse comments regarding your credit.
But I don't want to gloss over the fact that you may be out for a long time, and may never go back to the job.
Now what if you cross the picket line and work through it?
a)many co-workers (and managers and customers and vendors and associates) will take the attitude that you have bills to pay and you're acting in good conscience, and will not change their attitude toward you one bit. b)others will not. Others will regard you as a "scab," which in the minds of some, is lower than a child molester, a treasonist, or a thief. They may want to key your car, throw out some jackrocks whenever you pass, and spit in your face. Months or years after the strike is over some of these people will barely tolerate your presence at work; some may hate you so much that if they someday hear that you died in a fire or that your children were killed in an accident and they'll say, "Screw him -- he's a scab."
If that seems harsh, remember that they base that on the perception that they have bills to pay and children to feed, but they are sacrificing during a strike in order to collectively bargain more effectively, while you work through the strike and undermine them.
So expect hard feelings.
On the other hand, you will get extra pay and maybe even some free meals from your company during the strike.
As I said before, as you work up to the strike deadline you will hear a lot of rumors and loose talk. That is posturing, try to ignore it.
If you do go on strike, beware of the hotheads who advocate doing anything illegal, (keying cars, throwing jackrocks, murdering people).
Best to you, friend. I hate that you're going through this, and let us know how things turn out.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Arizona is a right to work state, so I can see the company firing any strikers and replacing them with new people. Our financial situation is tight enough without losing even a portion of my income.
I haven't come to a concrete decision, but I'm leaning toward crossing the picket line if it comes to that.
Tomorrow's going to a be a fun day at work. I got the letter about the strike vote yesterday after work and have today off. I know what everybody's going to be talking about.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Why won't you be attending the strike vote? If you are a member of the union and don't want to strike, why not go and vote against striking?
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I'm picturing an evironment of yelling, screaming, and name calling. I don't see the vote being a civil affair. The vote is being held in a concert venue.
I could be totally wrong. Maybe it'll be a polite, civil discussion with nobody getting bent out of shape.
I've been pretty ambivilent about my decision to join the union in the first place. What have I gootten for all the money I've given them?
I don't handle contention or big crowds very well. I don't know if this makes sense to anybody else, but the prospect of being i a large room full of people yelling at each other gives me the willies.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
"Right to work" and "striker replacement" are two different things. I'm not sure about Arizona (you might need to call a lawyer or the state labor relations office). My experience is that the process of firing strikers is long, drawn-out, subject to numerous legal challenges, and a measure of absolute last resort, especially for a grocery store, which would suffer in the court of public opinion).
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Is this vote a "vote to strike" or a "vote to authorize a strike"? Voting to authorize a strike may be to some extent a bargaining ploy. These usually come down overwhelmingly in favor of striking (the people counting the votes make sure of that, if you know what I mean). An actual strike may take place midnight Sunday night, or a week from now, or a year from now, or never.
Also, if you are considering not honoring the picket line, and you are a union member in a right-to-work state, the union may penalize you with a fine equivalent to to all the money you make working (plus fines and penalties), and there are certain circumstances where they are able to collect or place a lien on you. (again, this can vary from state to state).
Please let us know how this works out.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Derrell: Arizona is a right to work state, so I can see the company firing any strikers and replacing them with new people. Our financial situation is tight enough without losing even a portion of my income.
I haven't come to a concrete decision, but I'm leaning toward crossing the picket line if it comes to that.
Tomorrow's going to a be a fun day at work. I got the letter about the strike vote yesterday after work and have today off. I know what everybody's going to be talking about.
If Arizona is like Utah, you are probably right about being promptly replaced. But you have to decide for yourself if you mind the conditions you work under, or if you think your employer is so unethical as to warrant this course of action.
You have the right to decide whether to work or to withhold your labor. There is no shame in working if you feel you need to, there is also much to be admired if by taking a stand you do the right thing, even if it costs your job.
I don't think anyone here can tell you what you ought to do.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
It's a strike authorization vote. I don't want to cross the picket line, but I'm not sure how I'll pay my bills. I hope it won't come to that. This is going to be a long, stressful weekend. The meeting is at 6:00 P.M. on Monday.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Good luck. I worked at a supermarket once and they were talking about strikes because of healthcare, but it didn't happen. I say go to the meeting if you can. They practically bribed us go to those. Literally.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
They can't summarily fire strikers. There is a long, complicated process they have to go through in order to even hire replacements. And when the strike is over if they summarily fire strikers they would probably be found to have an animus toward organized labor and have committed unfair labor practices. In any time and in any state in America they would be in for a crushing legal battle; today, with a pro-labor congress and pro-labor Administration, they'd be cutting their own throats. Derrell, get facts. Rumors and innuendo will be spread by both sides, and it can make you worry yourself sick.
Again, I'm sorry you're going through this, but you'll get through it. And call the companies to whom you owe the bills. Some of them are very accomodating.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
I highly recommend going to the meeting. What generally happens is that only active union members go, and the vote ends up not really representing the will of the union. The last time I was involved in a potential strike the union voted to authorize the strike, the union and company came to an agreement, and the contract went to the union membership for ratification. It wasn't ratified, and everyone freaked out. In my office, about 30% of the union members had actually voted. The rest just figured it would be ratified, because the contracts were always ratified. So they didn't bother to vote, even though most of them were in favor of the contract.
Anyway, like Fish said, if it's just an authorization there's a good chance it will pass regardless. But it doesn't hurt anything to go and find out what kind of vote it is, and if it's a secret ballot vote against striking. If it's not a secret ballot and you're not comfortable voting in public, just leave.
But if you decide to cross the picket line, quit the union first.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
A bunch of us are carpooling to the meeting, then getting pizza afterword. The way I understand it, a yes vote next week would give the union authorization to call a strike. The union and company meet agsin on the 24th. I hope the strike cdoesn't happen. If I decide to cross thye picket line, I'm definitely taking ElJay's advice and quitting the nion first.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Do make sure you check on your union requirements for strike before you decide to cross picket lines. Depending on the union, you could be sued for crossing picket lines during the strike if you are a striking union member. Part of being a union member is agreeing to follow their decisions, including striking if it is called for.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Ditto to Andi330 -- and also, they may not choose to accept your resignation at this point in time. For some of the contract expirations I've been involved in, we've closed the window for quitting a certain number of days before the strike.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
The meeting went th way I thought it would. The president of the union local explained the situation, then called for a vote. At least 90% of the members voted to authorize a strike. Based on my understanding of the issues, I voted with the majority. They were going to do a vote by written ballot, but abandoned the idea when twice as many people showed up as they were planning on.
There's another meeting tomorrow morning, but I'm pretty sure that vote will go the sqame way. The union and company go back to the table on Thursday. The tricky part is that the two top grocery chains in Arizona have come up with a joint proposal. If either company fails to negotiate, we strike.
I don't want to go on strike, but felt it was the right thing to do. Right now, I'm about 99% sure there will be a strike.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
If they had not voted to strike, the union would have had much less leverage in negotiations, so that would have been a tricky situation.
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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I know. The thing that's got me worried is that there are two companies involved. Both of them have to sign off on the deal to avoid a strike.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Well, it may very well be that the union has no desire whatsoever to strike, but they have to have that threat ready to pull out on a moment's notice. Now the grocery chains have to have contingency plans in place, and they have to live under the threat of closing some stores during a strike and losing lots of revenue, even from the stores that don't close. So they are under more pressure to negotiate in good faith, and maybe even to give their workforce some additional pay and benefits in order to secure guaranteed labor "peace."
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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The two sides went back to the table yesterday and resolved nothing. They've got a conference call planned for October 8th. I on't expect anything positive to come from it.
I need a list of fun things to do while on strike.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Whether they can legally fire you is a different matter from whether you are doing work and hence getting paid. You could still have your job in an abstract sense but not be making any money because you aren't working any hours in the striking situation. For your sake, I hope the strike relief fund pulls through for you. I guess if it doesn't, you can look into resigning from the union and crossing the line. But don't cross the line while a union member, is my sense.
That stinks that it's mangled up in two different employers. But I'm sure the Arizona scene is very different from any that I may be familiar with.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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