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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » End of Time ***SPOILERS***

   
Author Topic: End of Time ***SPOILERS***
Lisa
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  • As soon as they showed that he was a Time Lord at the end of part one, I knew he had to be Rassilon.
  • That was the Doctor's mother, wasn't it?
  • Did he have to bloody do it in the TARDIS? I mean, what did he think was going to happen?
  • I don't think they've ever had this kind of closure on any of the Doctors before.
  • Tennant can still come back as a guest in one of two ways: (1) a "Three Doctors" type episode and/or (2) a visit to the dimension where the Half Doctor lives with Rose.
  • Why didn't Donna die when she remembered? I know the Doctor said he wasn't about to leave his best friend without any defenses, but still.
  • I like that the Master did something heroic. I have a soft spot for bad guys doing something redemptive.
  • I hope JMS sees this and feels bad about not letting us know anything about the Telepath War. I mean, we found out more about the Time War here than we'd known before; there's no reason JMS can't do something similar.

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Christine
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* That was the Doctor's mother, wasn't it?

That was my guess, but I wish they had said. It would have really helped add some truth to the scene and what the doctor had to do -- again!

* Did he have to bloody do it in the TARDIS? I mean, what did he think was going to happen?

Seriously! [Smile]

* Tennant can still come back as a guest in one of two ways: (1) a "Three Doctors" type episode and/or (2) a visit to the dimension where the Half Doctor lives with Rose.

I thought of #2 and I hope it happens one of these days, although I think they'll need to give us a season or two to get used to this new doctor first.

* Why didn't Donna die when she remembered? I know the Doctor said he wasn't about to leave his best friend without any defenses, but still.

She was very cold...I thought maybe that had something to do with it.

* I like that the Master did something heroic. I have a soft spot for bad guys doing something redemptive.

This confused me, but then again, the Master has confused me for much of this new series. They've done a good job for those of us who didn't watch Dr. Who before this new series in general, but I never really got the Master.

* I hope JMS sees this and feels bad about not letting us know anything about the Telepath War. I mean, we found out more about the Time War here than we'd known before; there's no reason JMS can't do something similar.

I'm not sure what kind of choices JMS has but I would *really* have loved to see that, too.

*************************************

I did like that he didn't die in some grand gesture -- there were many opportunities for that to happen -- he died saving one old man's life.

I thought the ending kind of kept going for too long and it took away from the "death" of David Tennant's Doctor. The whole farewell bit was unnecessary, IMO. The death was not well linked to the event that caused it because we had to travel around the universe first, waving good-bye to everyone. And then it was over and it felt a great deal more like the *actor* died and left the show rather than that we lost the dear Doctor we'd loved for 3 years.

Other than that serious blight, though, I liked the episode.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
  • As soon as they showed that he was a Time Lord at the end of part one, I knew he had to be Rassilon.
  • That was the Doctor's mother, wasn't it?
  • Did he have to bloody do it in the TARDIS? I mean, what did he think was going to happen?
  • I don't think they've ever had this kind of closure on any of the Doctors before.
  • Tennant can still come back as a guest in one of two ways: (1) a "Three Doctors" type episode and/or (2) a visit to the dimension where the Half Doctor lives with Rose.
  • Why didn't Donna die when she remembered? I know the Doctor said he wasn't about to leave his best friend without any defenses, but still.
  • I like that the Master did something heroic. I have a soft spot for bad guys doing something redemptive.
  • I hope JMS sees this and feels bad about not letting us know anything about the Telepath War. I mean, we found out more about the Time War here than we'd known before; there's no reason JMS can't do something similar.

1. I always thought Rassilon was the benevolent type [Frown] But apparently it turns out the character was always kind of a cruel jerk.

2. Word of God says yes.

3. My understanding is that the Regenerations should ALWAYS be done in the TARDIS or else the Doctor could get damaged in someway. The 10th to 11th regeneration was probably more energetic then most due to the unexpected amount of Rads.

4. I wish he would've done something to hint towards Jack returning to Torchwood, like giving him more comfort or something.

5. Aye, lets hope they can convince Eccleson to come back as well.

6. Because she wasn't reminded directly of the Doctor, she was only getting bits and pieces of stuff which if you think about it, is incredibly likely in London or Cardiff if she ever ran into an alien, this way the defence knocks her out.

7. Aye. You know what this means as well? It means that inside the Time War The Master can try to do something to escape bringing more Time Lords with him.

8. JMS is getting old [Frown]

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Lisa
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Also, now we know that the Doctor can regenerate as a woman or even as a non-humanoid.
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Ron Lambert
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I thought the farewell "round the universe" tour was a nice touch--it involved tying up a few loose ends. He even saved some lives. I'm glad the writer(s) gave special treatment to the greatest of all Dr. Whos. David Tennant deserved to have a drawn-out farewell.

I was actually worried whether the Doctor would make it back to the Tardis for his regeneration. What would have happened if he had regenerated out in the open, on the street? Could he have? It was poignant when he protested, "I don't want to go!" I do not understand why he had to half-demolish the Tardis in the process, though.

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Chris Bridges
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My impression was that the more than usually violent regeneration was because he was fighting against it. He was fully conscious and very resistant, raging against the change, and Time Lords aren't weak.
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Goody Scrivener
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
  • That was the Doctor's mother, wasn't it?

Honestly, I wonder if it was Donna. The way the camera cut to Donna on the chapel steps after Wilf asked, her comment to Wilf about having been lost.... heck, the whole DoctorDonna twist.

I'm mixed on the visit-the-Companions tour, including the fact that it seriously delayed Ten's regeneration. It was nice to see Jack, Sarah-Jane and Luke again. Was Martha married to Mickey??? And I'm definitely not keen on him visiting Rose. "you'll have a great year"?? I seem to recall, the year leading up to her meeting Nine on Christmas was pretty horrendous for her.

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Leonide
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quote:
I'm mixed on the visit-the-Companions tour, including the fact that it seriously delayed Ten's regeneration.
I'm mainly on the "too drawn out" side. His death lacked a punch that the "I don't want to go" didn't really make up for. It was nice to see some old faces again, but it was just like The Journey Home all over again -- we get it, the Doctor loves these people, and he'll miss them when he changes form. I was tired of being beaten over the head with that.

quote:
Was Martha married to Mickey???
Yup. I haven't seen Children of Earth yet, so maybe that's explained a little there? I was totally spoiled for Torchwood with this episode, though. Sad.


quote:
And I'm definitely not keen on him visiting Rose. "you'll have a great year"?? I seem to recall, the year leading up to her meeting Nine on Christmas was pretty horrendous for her.
Pretty average, if nothing else. It was the next year, 2006, that was the cool one for her. By "great year" he must have meant "great five days at the end except for the whole life-in-peril stuff."

I think my biggest gripe, besides the drawn-out death, was the whole Master-Becoming-Everyone plot. Not remotely scary, and at times pretty darn ridiculous. Couldn't they have come up with a scarier end-of-the-world scenario for the FINAL 10 episode?

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Goody Scrivener
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quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:


quote:
Was Martha married to Mickey???
Yup. I haven't seen Children of Earth yet, so maybe that's explained a little there? I was totally spoiled for Torchwood with this episode, though. Sad.

Martha was on her honeymoon during Children of Earth, so we didn't see her. I didn't recall any mention of who the bloke was, either.

And while everyone turning into the Master was pretty ridiculous, I felt that the real end-of-the-world threat was the return of the Time Lords. Somehow I'd never realized till now that The Doctor was directly responsible for the end of the Time War, so I was excited for their return and the fact that The Doctor wasn't alone. I do recall him saying to one of the gals that he'd killed them all, but for some reason I interpreted that to mean something like "I did (something) that led to their downfall" rather than "I personally turned against them and I locked them up to die".

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Amilia
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Am also curious as to how Mickey and Martha met up. Glad they seemed to be having a blast together, but what happened to "her" doctor?

I very much enjoyed the episode. It was great fun. I do agree, though, that it was about 15 minutes too long. I didn't mind so much, but my brother, who is not as into the show as I am, found the long good-bye sequence to be a bit much.

My biggest problem with the episode was that the out-of-story explanations made so much more sense that the in-story ones. Brother: "Why doesn't he regenerate already?" Me: "Because everybody quit the show and they have to say good-bye to us. We will miss them." Brother: "Why is he blowing up the TARDIS?" Me: "So that Steven Moffat can rebuild the set to look like anything he wants."

This approach led to problems with the whole, "I don't want to go" deal though. It's a bit less poignant when I am grumbling at the TV, "Well then, you shouldn't have quit."

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by Amilia:
Am also curious as to how Mickey and Martha met up. Glad they seemed to be having a blast together, but what happened to "her" doctor?

Not sure what you mean. Are you thinking about Rose and the Half Doctor?

quote:
Originally posted by Amilia:
I very much enjoyed the episode. It was great fun. I do agree, though, that it was about 15 minutes too long. I didn't mind so much, but my brother, who is not as into the show as I am, found the long good-bye sequence to be a bit much.

It was a bit much, yes. So was his bellyaching about going. But every Doctor is different emotionally. This one apparently had a very strong attachment to his personality. We saw that in him when he was John Smith, right?
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Bella Bee
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by Amilia:
[qb] Am also curious as to how Mickey and Martha met up. Glad they seemed to be having a blast together, but what happened to "her" doctor?

Not sure what you mean. Are you thinking about Rose and the Half Doctor?
I think she means Tom, the doctor who Martha met in that year which didn't happen and was originally engaged to.

I thought Martha and Mickey made a cute (if random) couple, but it's a shame that she had to go for Rose's ex again.
It was also a good explanation for why they never turned up on Torchwood and why Martha won't reappear when Unit does.

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AvidReader
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quote:
Originally posted by Amilia:
This approach led to problems with the whole, "I don't want to go" deal though. It's a bit less poignant when I am grumbling at the TV, "Well then, you shouldn't have quit."

Yes! That was my thought, too.

Other than that, I got a big kick out of it. I'm a bit sad that Donna's grandpa didn't turn out to be a Time Lord with his memories locked away, and I guessed that the old gal was his wife. Still, I'm ok with the rest of it.

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Amilia
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quote:
Originally posted by Bella Bee:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:
Originally posted by Amilia:
[qb] Am also curious as to how Mickey and Martha met up. Glad they seemed to be having a blast together, but what happened to "her" doctor?

Not sure what you mean. Are you thinking about Rose and the Half Doctor?
I think she means Tom, the doctor who Martha met in that year which didn't happen and was originally engaged to.
Exactly. She was joking about him with Donna in the Sontaran Stratagem, and seemed to be very much in love. Agreed about your other points about Martha and Mickey, I'm just now very curious about their backstory.
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scifibum
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The spoilers are of far less cosmic significance than the title led me to believe.

I'll just have to invent a stasis field if I want the real story.

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Kama
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quote:
Brother: "Why is he blowing up the TARDIS?" Me: "So that Steven Moffat can rebuild the set to look like anything he wants."

he could do it anyway. The Doctor may change the decor whenever he wants to. The fire was just for effect [Razz]
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Javert
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Here's my question:

Both Nine and The Master regenerated in the TARDIS, and it didn't seem to effect the ship in any noticeable way. The same goes for Ten's half-regeneration at the end of season 4.

So why was this regeneration so damaging to the TARDIS? I know the real life redesign reason, but I'm curious to find out if there's an in-universe explanation for his regeneration being so violent compared to others.

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Lisa
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My guess is that it was a combination of the huge amount of energy he'd absorbed and the fact that he'd held the regeneration back by force of will for long enough to say goodbye to everyone. Probably more the latter than the former.
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lem
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Altho I now agree with Lisa, my initial reaction as that he hit something or encountered a problem--much like the titanic ship breaking through the side of the Tardis when it's defenses were down.

I didn't think he caused the crash before it plummeted to the earth as he yelled Geronimo!!!

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Blayne Bradley
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I still don't believe he can regenerate to a Woman, he was delirious and partly amnesmatic he probably only for a single panicked second thought he turned into a girl when logically its very likely to be an impossibility.
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Javert
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One of the side-effects of a regeneration is temporary insanity, isn't it? Or perhaps just marked irrationality. When Nine became Ten, he crashed the TARDIS into the street...so I see no problem with him both causing the crash and seeming to think it was awesome.
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