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Author Topic: Czech Girl, Date # 2
Orincoro
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So for our first date, we went to the Jewish museum in Prague. Her idea- I didn't think horrifically tragic images drawn by children in death camps during the holocaust would be a big turn on. We went to the Jewish museum, the Spanish Synagogue , and finished at a nearby cafe, before I walked her to the metro and we kissed goodbye. She had to leave the city to work for two weeks as a caregiver for an old lady while her nursemaid was on vacation in India.

So the two weeks are up, and she texted me and wants to see me again on friday before she heads to Moravia (central CZR) for the weekend to be with her parents. I texted back suggesting we see Avatar, as it is finally playing in English and 3D at one of the international cinemas in the center. She texted back saying we should meet, but she wasn't sure about whether the movie was really "for her." What she actually wrote was: "I am not sure if Avatar likes me" (typical Czechism), but she wanted to meet me anyway. How should I proceed? I am tempted just to invite her to my flat to watch a movie in private, but for a second date, I am afraid that might be a bit impertinent. I could take her to dinner, but if so, what kind of place should I take her? What kind of second date ideas are good ones?

If you need to ask- yes, I am sure that this is a "real date" and not a friend outing. I asked her out when I met her, and we have only met once since then, but she seems really nice, friendly, and funny as well. This bodes well, especially considering that her English is pretty minimal- we spoke Czech about half the time on the first date, which is saying something, considering the quality of my Czech. Even when we were touring the museum, she had a really nice and inviting sense of humor, laughed quietly at all my lame jokes and prattle, and leaned into me in this very sexy way she has. All told, I'm actually super excited to see her again, even though we've spent only one evening and one afternoon together so far. I'm so not big on the whole "dating" thing, that my attitude towards this kind of surprised me- equally surprising was how ready she was to agree to meet me again (or the first time, for that matter).

So we've done the introduction thing. I know her name, she knows me, we have personal details. What comes next? A female friend of mine told me this week that I was required to kiss her on the second date (since we only sort of did a half-cheek kiss last time- doesn't really count). That's a lot of pressure. How do I find the right time? How do I continue things for another date, if that's what I decide I want to do? I date so little, I have no idea as to the answers to these basic questions.

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Lyrhawn
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I suck at these sort of date mechanics, so I can't offer much help, but I'm curious, do you think there is a big enough difference between the standard Czech dating practices and standard American dating practices to where advice from Hatrack might lead you astray?

Personally, if it was a girl that I had a good rapport with, even if I'd only been on a single date, but maybe was texting with her and things seemed to be going well, I wouldn't feel too forward in inviting her over to my house to watch a movie, especially if I was offering to make dinner, rather than going out to eat, and then retiring to my house, which might seem more suggestive. No idea if you can cook or not, but it's an idea. It all depends on how you think she'd respond, rather than what you think standard social conventions dictate. At least, that's how I would go about things.

Then again, I'm single, so my advice might be of dubious value.

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scifibum
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I'm afraid if you have to ask, the answers aren't going to do you any good. [Wink] (I'm allowed to tease a bit; my own second dates were a series of awkward moments worthy of The Office.)

I would guess that a meal out at a sit-down place, but not a fancy one (no caviar and champagne just yet), would be a good idea. Followed by a walk around some picturesque park or plaza, which should create openings for kisses. Don't worry about the pressure just go for it! you have to do it! [Wink]

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scholarette
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Is it possible that she doesn't feel comfy enough with her english to enjoy an English movie? In which case, is there another movie you could go to? I think my second date with my now husband was playing pool, which both of us were horrible at, but was still fun. If you can cook, cooking her dinner at your place seems appropriate (to an American though- no clue what Czech conventions are).
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Sterling
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I don't know if the Czechs have a different protocol for such things, but you might try kissing her hand and see if she seems ameanable to something more personal. Gives some room to withdraw while allowing both parties to save face.
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Mike
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I'd say (with the normal caveat that this is from an American perspective) that dinner at a sit-down place is probably not the best option unless it's super casual. Save that for when you've seen more of each other. Cooking at your place is always a good idea, especially if you're a good cook, but I usually do that for a third date or later (plus, if you go grocery shopping together that's lots of fun!). scifibum's park/plaza idea is an excellent thing to do, tried and true. I really like scholarette's pool idea for a second date, though I haven't done it myself (yet! [Wink] ) — that's just about the perfect mixture of fun and casualness. I also like taking bike rides to new and interesting neighborhoods, but maybe that's just me. I'm actually not a fan of movies for early dates, but they're not horrible, especially if you do something afterwards.

On the kiss. Your friend is right, you should definitely kiss her. It's normal to be a little nervous, but keep in mind she probably wants to kiss you as much as you want to kiss her. She'll be nervous too! I'm not the best at finding the right time to kiss (getting better, though), but I've found that strong eye contact is the best indicator of when to proceed. (This is a sufficient condition, not a necessary one.)

As far as continuing things for another date, I've never found this to be an issue. If you both want to see each other again, it will happen. If one of you is on the fence, it's less likely, but still a possibility. If one of you decides against, it won't happen. Very simple, really.

Best of luck! I'd love to hear how it turns out. [Smile]

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Mike
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Sterling, have you tried that? Maybe it's me, but I can't imagine kissing a girl's hand. The idea's definitely coming from the right direction (turns out touching and being comfortable with touching each other is a good thing on a date!), but the specifics are hard to visualize. I like to hug on first meeting, then light, incidental touches are good, and holding hands is definitely good. The exact kind of touching that's appropriate is probably very culturally dependent.
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Raymond Arnold
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I have absolutely no experience to back up any advice. But one random thing I heard somewhere on the internet which made sense to me was that a good "kiss test" was to play with her hair a little and make eye contact, and if she reacts favorably to go for it. If she doesn't, you haven't done anything so forward as to ruin everything and can probably make a graceful retreat. (This is not something I've actually tried, but it seems like the sort of thing that would work most of the time).
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scifibum
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I knew one girl who was really averse to hair touching but was OK with kissing. [Evil]
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Sterling
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike:
Sterling, have you tried that? Maybe it's me, but I can't imagine kissing a girl's hand. The idea's definitely coming from the right direction (turns out touching and being comfortable with touching each other is a good thing on a date!), but the specifics are hard to visualize. I like to hug on first meeting, then light, incidental touches are good, and holding hands is definitely good. The exact kind of touching that's appropriate is probably very culturally dependent.

I have, back in the day. In the right company, it's been well received- it seems kind of gallant and old-fashioned, especially as a greeting. (Back of the hand only, please.)
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TomDavidson
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I'm betting that by the time you know a girl well enough to know whether you should kiss her hand or not, you'd know whether an actual kiss would be welcome.
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RivalOfTheRose
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I think the hand kiss idea seems classy!
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theresa51282
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I love early dates that are doing an activity. It provides for lots of conversation and opportunities for flirting, touching and kissing. Some of my favorites, although I don't know how viable in the czech republic this time of year, are miniature golf, amusement parks, skiing, bowling, and go karts. As for the first kiss, I agree with the eye contact. Also if she lets you hold her hand for a while without pulling away thats a good sign too.
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scifibum
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Yeah, on further reflection, sitting down in a restaurant might be risky, since there will be a lot of conversational space to fill. Doing something more active is probably better until you know each other better.
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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I'm betting that by the time you know a girl well enough to know whether you should kiss her hand or not, you'd know whether an actual kiss would be welcome.

Seconded.


I would do a nice sit down dinner, and then see if she is up for a movie. I would think that an movie in English might be a little intimidating for her if her English isn't really good.

Just my 2 cents, yet again from an American perspective. [Big Grin]

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Raymond Arnold
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One thing I'm unclear on: what exactly is the quality of your Czech? If both of you are having trouble speaking clearly, than I'd have to agree with the people saying that you want to steer towards an activity that requires less verbal communication.
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El JT de Spang
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Take her to a cafe or somewhere quiet and play checkers. Do NOT do dinner and a movie.
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Geraine
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I am married to an Albanian, however I also dated a Russian, as well as a German. As a general rule, Europeans are more forward than American girls. My wife literally walked into my house one night and told me we were going to go out on a date. I had only met her once before. Now we are married, and she will tell you I've never been happier! (Which is true [Smile] )

Our second date was at her place and we watched a movie. It was nice. We had our first kiss during the movie, and afterwards was asked why it took me so long to kiss her.

If she does not think she would like Avatar, ask her if there is another movie she would rather see. Whatever you do, don't try and convince her that Avatar would be the best thing to see. Showing you care about what she likes and showing you are willing to sacrifice to make her happy will really help you score some points.

If you are currently in Europe, take her to one of those outside cafes if it is warm enough, and have a drink or two. That way if there is a lull in the conversation you can leave quickly and do something else. If language is a problem things like the Opera or something else musical is also a good idea. Treat her like a queen and show her that you have genuine interest in her and her happiness, and you can't go wrong. Be charming, but not annoyingly so. Act like this is how you treat every woman, and if the opportunity presents itself, show her that it is true. Open the door for an old lady at a restaurant and you will have scored many points.

It also depends on how into this girl you are. Are you looking for more of a romantic relationship or a fun one?

Romantic: Classical Music Concerts, Operas, Plays, Walks, cafezinhos, the beach, nice restaurants, etc

Fun: Movies, miniature golf, casual restaurants, etc.

Where you take her and what you do on your date matters. What she thinks of your relationship will depend on this.

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rollainm
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I'm not sure how well this translates to non-American dating (or hell, even American dating - I've never done the typical structured dating thing), but I don't think it matters so much what you do so long as you're both up for it. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid to just ask her straight out, "Hey, what do you think about going to this movie (or restaurant or whatever)?" If that doesn't suit her, then find out what does and go from there. If that's a difficult conversation to have, well, then you're probably not all that compatible and you might want to just move on.

As for the kissing...heh...good luck with that.

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Phanto
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You should hit that
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SoaPiNuReYe
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2-3 second rule for kissing where you look her in the eye and if she stares back for that long then go for it. Obviously you want to try and preface this with something a little romantic.
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rollainm
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quote:
Originally posted by SoaPiNuReYe:
2-3 second rule for kissing where you look her in the eye and if she stares back for that long then go for it. Obviously you want to try and preface this with something a little romantic.

Keep the counting in your head, though. She may think it's a little weird if you sound off before moving in.
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Raymond Arnold
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One. Two. Three. GO!!!!!
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scifibum
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While we're giving really obvious advice, brush the crumbs from your beard before you lean in.
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LargeTuna
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What not to do (from personal experience) :
Don't ask her if she would like a piece of gum, then inform her that you are currently chewing your only piece when she says yes.

My last gf seriously pulled that line on me. Moral of the story, you wait too long for the kiss she gets impatient ang gives you corny lines. It did work out for me in the end so idk just please no one ever say that, it's too strange.

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MightyCow
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I was a dating coach for 3 years, so I'm going to give you the pro-tip for kissing a girl on a date.

If you haven't kissed her by the end of the date, just kiss her at the end of the date.

That's it. If she likes you, she'll kiss you back. If she doesn't like you, she'll either back off or give you the cheek, and you know not to ask her out again, unless you just want a friend.

Simple.

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0Megabyte
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Interesting. Dating coach for 3 years. That sounds like an intriguing job.
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TomDavidson
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"That's it, Entwiler! Twice around the park at sunset! Backwards! .... Maude! Drop and give me twenty lines of bad poetry!"
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Tante Shvester
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Tom just cracked me the heck up.
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Uprooted
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Where you take her and what you do on your date matters. What she thinks of your relationship will depend on this.

I think he knows that already, that's why he's asking, don't freak the guy out -- it doesn't matter that much. ;-) One couple I know has been happily married for 30 years and are still adorably cuddly. But for their first date, he took her out to the forest, built a campfire, and made baked apples for her. He thought it was pretty impressive. She hates camping and thinks cooked fruit is disgusting. Obviously it didn't doom the relationship forever.

Have fun, Orincoro, hope it goes well and do report back.

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Mucus
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I didn't realize my first date was actually a date. So yes, I think there is room for error, so relax [Smile]
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dabbler
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My first date with my guy was basically listening to him talk for 3 hours because he chatters when he's nervous. Another early date we got sandwiches then we drove 20 mins to somewhere scenic to eat... I don't like waiting to eat when I'm hungry! They're funny and sweet stories now, 5 years later. Good luck, orincoro and have fun!
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
I didn't realize my first date was actually a date. So yes, I think there is room for error, so relax [Smile]

Same here.

I hated the early phases of dating because I was too worried about trying to figure out what the other person expected to relax and enjoy anything. For me, it worked out much better when I didn't realize we were on a date. I was able to simply be myself and have fun.

For dating to develop into a relationship, you have to find a way to lose your own expectations and stop trying to anticipate hers so things can happen naturally.

As a side note, I think movies make terrible early dates because they offer very little opportunity for social interaction. Eating and activities (like bowling or pool) give you much more opportunity to socialize.

Based on what you've said about your cooking, I'd recommend against inviting her to your place for dinner. Even if you were a gourmet chef that could easily be interpreted as too intimate. I'd go to dinner at some inexpensive to moderately priced place with an atmosphere conducive to good conversation and follow it by meeting up with some friends for a game or something.

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Orincoro
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I would say the difference between this girl and the majority of girls I've dated is that we're both 100% sure these are "dates," as opposed to lame wanna-be relationship friend stuff. That said, this is the second date, so I don't need to psych myself out too much. I'm fairly sure about liking her, so it's question of how much she likes me- we shall see. Tomorrow!
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dkw
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
I hated the early phases of dating because I was too worried about trying to figure out what the other person expected to relax and enjoy anything. For me, it worked out much better when I didn't realize we were on a date. I was able to simply be myself and have fun. [/QB]

Getting engaged before the first date takes a lot of that pressure off too.
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scifibum
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[Cool]
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Lissande
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Or after the second date. I can't say I recommend that route for other couples necessarily, though.
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steven
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
While we're giving really obvious advice, brush the crumbs from your beard before you lean in.

Fortunately, AFTER the wedding, you can leave beard-crumb-brushing to HER.
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scifibum
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Well, yes. At the dating stage it's essentially a demonstration.
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MightyCow
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quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Interesting. Dating coach for 3 years. That sounds like an intriguing job.

It was both fun and enlightening. I worked at a smallish dating company, so I had a lot of hats- matchmaker, dating coach, webmaster, event coordinator... I learned a lot about relationships, mostly that they tend to work out if both people are genuinely interested in each other and want to have fun together.

Most people over-analyze everything. Just enjoy yourself on your date, and try to help the other person have fun too. If you like each other, you'll both have a good time, even if everything doesn't go as planned.

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scifibum
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10:43 PM in Czech Republic. I think if we don't get an update from Orincoro pretty soon we might have to assume the date went really well.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
10:43 PM in Czech Republic. I think if we don't get an update from Orincoro pretty soon we might have to assume the date went really well.

Not necessarily, she might have hospitalized him when he made his move.
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steven
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
10:43 PM in Czech Republic. I think if we don't get an update from Orincoro pretty soon we might have to assume the date went really well.

Yeah, they're moving in together.
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Launchywiggin
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What's her music background? Will she be able to appreciate your compositions?
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