quote:Astronomers have long known that many surveys of distant galaxies miss 90% of their targets, but they didn't know why. Now, astronomers have determined that a large fraction of galaxies whose light took 10 billion years to reach us have gone undiscovered. This was found with an extremely deep survey using two of the four giant 8.2-meter telescopes that make up ESO’s Very Large Telescope (VLT) and a unique custom-built filter. The survey also helped uncover some of the faintest galaxies ever found at this early stage of the Universe.
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fundies eat your heart out.
When have religious fundamentalists said the universe is very small?
I am taking a total guess here, but most fundies are going to disagree profoundly with the notion of 'a large fraction of galaxies whose light took 10 billion years to reach us' when the universe from time of creation is supposed to be somewhere around 6000 years old.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Apparently we know that there was some universe we had missed, but we didn't know how big it was, and it turns out to be pretty big...
Or, as the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy puts it:
quote: "Space," it says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space...'
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fundies eat your heart out.
When have religious fundamentalists said the universe is very small?
I am taking a total guess here, but most fundies are going to disagree profoundly with the notion of 'a large fraction of galaxies whose light took 10 billion years to reach us' when the universe from time of creation is supposed to be somewhere around 6000 years old.
Or that of all this space, it's Earth and Earth's gays that are really the most important part of the cosmos.
I can't help but feel complete awe at the scope of the universe. If the Singularity ever does come to pass, I hope I'll be alive to watch us finally explore beyond this planet.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:I can't help but feel complete awe at the scope of the universe. If the Singularity ever does come to pass, I hope I'll be alive to watch us finally explore beyond this planet.
I recently read an article about a simulation they were finally able to run (I can't recall if it was lacking processing power or if it just took them a while to get all the calculations right) about the first star formation(s). It turned out that after the Big Bang, the first cosmic event was the formation of one single star, and after that went nova the rest of the galaxies formed from it's remnants.
I'm not sure I can do justice to the article in a paragraphed of half-remembered info, but it the notion that everything is descended from a single star felt really amazing, in a way that I assume theists feel similarly amazed by everything being connected to God. For me, the notion that this all happened WITHOUT some divine plan behind it makes even more awesome.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fundies eat your heart out.
This is such a mind-numbing, incredible discovery, that which I cannot find words to express how amazing it is, and all you can do is troll? A pointless, inane statement like this is not necessary. The discussion could be so much better.
I continue to be terrified and impressed by the size of the universe.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well for some people the amazing depth of scientific discovery exists primarily for the purpose of quasi-validating their jabs at the deeply religious!
quote:I recently read an article about a simulation they were finally able to run (I can't recall if it was lacking processing power or if it just took them a while to get all the calculations right) about the first star formation(s). It turned out that after the Big Bang, the first cosmic event was the formation of one single star, and after that went nova the rest of the galaxies formed from it's remnants.
Another .. uh, interesting hypothesis. I have no idea how stars are supposed to work (and on what scale) once they go hot at those sizes. I know that some supermassive stars like magnetaurs blow up and leave enough debris to promote the formation of dozens of subsequent stars (our own is an example of this phenom) but a ... single mega mega megastar like this?
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
You know what's amazing is that humans have been discovering again and again that what we once thought of as the universe is really only a tiny part of everything there is, for all of human history.
So I'm not at all sure we're even close to the end of this yet. String theory, if it's true, and nobody knows yet if it is or not, but it seems to point toward there being unimaginably many different universes each started with a big bang, but having different fundamental constants and other properties of the laws of physics. Like our universe is just one possibility among all those. It's crazy!
Before that, of course, we used to think what we now call the Milky Way galaxy was everything, was the universe, except it had these strange spiral nebulae in it.... that turned out each to be another galaxy in its own right.
Before that, of course, we thought that the solar system was the whole of the universe, and that consisted of nested spheres with the earth at the center and the "fixed stars", which were tiny points of light, on the outermost sphere. Even then the "universe" was enormous! I mean we really can't truly get our heads around even the size of the solar system alone! Then come to find it's just a modest little star system on the edge of a mid-sized galaxy that's full of such systems, having 200 billion or so just in our galaxy. Then you realize our one galaxy is nothing special and there are many billions of galaxies, perhaps 500 billion.
None of those numbers alone are comprehensible or graspable in any sort of gut way by the human mind (or intestines for that matter). I mean you can write the numbers down, and notice all the zeros, but you can't really picture it. And then they keep multiplying by each other.
And still there's no end. I'd be completely unsurprised if this happens several more times in my lifetime. Isn't it awesome?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That was what the article said (it was in an astronomy magazine, can't remember the name). The point of the simulation was to figure out (among other things) how many stars formed from the initial product of the big bang. And it turned out, the answer was just one. (I actually am not entirely sure all other stars were necessarily descended from that star, or if there were any others that formed afterwards from any material that WASN'T used during the first star formation, but I think any subsequent stars at the very least happened after the first supernova and would have been composed largely from material from it, even if they also had some non-post-nova material).
On a related note, I am listening to Pandora, and the song that just came on was "The Sun is a Mass of Incandescent Gas."
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by The Reader:
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fundies eat your heart out.
This is such a mind-numbing, incredible discovery, that which I cannot find words to express how amazing it is, and all you can do is troll? A pointless, inane statement like this is not necessary. The discussion could be so much better.
I continue to be terrified and impressed by the size of the universe.
Why? Its a legitimate criticism and statement to make. Its not trolling to attack an acceptable target for their delusions.
We have mind boggling more information about the Universe and all they can do is say 'its a trick' at some point this gets old.
IP: Logged |
posted
nevermind they aren't relevant to the thread AT ALL
if I went into every thread about psychiatry advances with a one-liner about scientologists being dumb, that's p. trollin'
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Except thats not what I said now is it. Besides its a threat not a convention, relevance is relative.
IP: Logged |
posted
Um, it pretty much is what you said, just applied to the universe and fundies instead of psychology and scientologists.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Except thats not what I said now is it. Besides its a threat not a convention, relevance is relative.
Even if what you said made sense, it would still be irrelevant. What you said was pointless agitation injected into the thread.
But I kind of get the feeling that you would rather drag this out then ever dare modify your behavior to omit pointless agitation, sooooo
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fundies eat your heart out.
This is such a mind-numbing, incredible discovery, that which I cannot find words to express how amazing it is, and all you can do is troll? A pointless, inane statement like this is not necessary. The discussion could be so much better.
I continue to be terrified and impressed by the size of the universe.
Why? Its a legitimate criticism and statement to make. Its not trolling to attack an acceptable target for their delusions.
We have mind boggling more information about the Universe and all they can do is say 'its a trick' at some point this gets old.
So what if they say "It's a trick?" The whole dispute is old. I don't like hearing it either, but there are far greater concerns in my life than this, and I suspect that is true of you as well. Does this really annoy you to point that you believe it is necessary to give your opinion every time something like this happens?
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Why? Its a legitimate criticism and statement to make. Its not trolling to attack an acceptable target for their delusions.
We have mind boggling more information about the Universe and all they can do is say 'its a trick' at some point this gets old.
Blayne, The user agreement for this forum reads
quote:You also agree that you will not use this forum to try to convert people to your own religious beliefs, or to disparage others for their own religious beliefs.
Ego, devoutly religious people are NOT an acceptable target at hatrack. If doesn't matter how valid you feel your citicism is, YOU have agreed not to use this forum to disparage others for their religious beliefs. If you (and anyone else here ) are no longer willing to abide by that agreement, you should find another forum.
I don't care if others have commonly violated that rule here in recent times, it is still explicitly banned in the user agreement. If people here exercised more personal honor in following the user agreement, this would be a far better place to be.
[ March 27, 2010, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
That part of the user agreement reads more that you aren't supposed to disparage other users directly for the beliefs that they hold, not that you can't needle a belief structure (fundamentalism, for instance) because you think that belief is ridculous.
It's all academic anyway because the ToS is not followed nor enforced as a literal ruleset, so just because the ToS explicitly says something doesn't mean that it's against the rules here (example: threads about sexually related subjects are taking place right now)
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: Or, as the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy puts it:
quote: "Space," it says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space...'
The National Geographic Channel has some special coming up on space and the universe, and the commercial starts with "Space is really big." Everytime I see it, I think of that DNA quote. Its most likely a coincidence but I've heard some other less subtle DNA references on NatGeo before so I like to think that not only is the channel full of geeky scientists, but they also hire geeks for their advertising department.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Depends on how many scientist we have to pay to study the rest of the 'universe.' Since there doesn't seem to be a (off the top of my head, feel free to disagree) commercial industry to pay for most of these scientist, I'm guessing that it is going to fall on the tax payers.
So I'm going out on a limb to say, a lot. Not that I mind, I'd much rather our money go to something subjectively educational than some other program that will 'fix' my life.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: anyway how about that science, huh
ps: magnetaurs are awesome
Are magnetaurs dinosaurs with magnetic powers? Because that would be the coolest thing to ever happen.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: anyway how about that science, huh
ps: magnetaurs are awesome
Are magnetaurs dinosaurs with magnetic powers? Because that would be the coolest thing to ever happen.
i guess it's just 'magnetar' but i like my spelling better.
quote: The density of a magnetar is such that a thimbleful of its material would weigh over 100 million tons on Earth. Magnetars also rotate rapidly, with most magnetars completing a rotation once every 1–10 seconds.
Magnetars are primarily characterized by their extremely powerful magnetic field, which can often reach the order of ten gigateslas. These magnetic fields are hundreds of thousands of times stronger than any man-made magnet, and quadrillions of times more powerful than the field surrounding Earth. As of 2010, they are the most magnetic objects ever detected in the universe. A magnetic field of 10 gigateslas is enormous relative to magnetic fields typically encountered on Earth. Earth has a geomagnetic field of 30–60 microteslas, and a neodymium based rare earth magnet has a field of about 1 tesla, with a magnetic energy density of 4.0×105 J/m3. A 10 gigatesla field, by contrast, has an energy density of 4.0×1025 J/m3, with an E/c2 mass density >104 times that of lead. The magnetic field of a magnetar would be lethal even at a distance of 1000 km, tearing tissues due to the diamagnetism of water. At a distance halfway to the moon, a magnetar could strip information from all credit cards on Earth. As described in the February 2003 Scientific American cover story, remarkable things happen within a magnetic field of magnetar strength. "X-ray photons readily split in two or merge together. The vacuum itself is polarized, becoming strongly birefringent, like a calcite crystal. Atoms are deformed into long cylinders thinner than the quantum-relativistic wavelength of an electron." In a field of about 105 teslas atomic orbitals deform into rod shapes. At 1010 teslas, a hydrogen atom becomes a spindle 200 times narrower than its normal diameter.
posted
I've heard that some magnetars are strong enough to possibly pull atoms apart. Is this truly possible?
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Fundies eat your heart out.
When have religious fundamentalists said the universe is very small?
I am taking a total guess here, but most fundies are going to disagree profoundly with the notion of 'a large fraction of galaxies whose light took 10 billion years to reach us' when the universe from time of creation is supposed to be somewhere around 6000 years old.
As long as you keep in mind that many religious people believe that the "day" referred to in Genesis was just a time period used by man to split the different creative periods used by God to create the universe, I am with you.
I think anyone that thinks the Universe was created in 6 days is silly. Even if you read Genesis literally, how do you define how long a day was if the sun wasn't even around for the first few days.
As for a magnataur, I thought this was a creature in World of Warcraft...Half Mammoth half human things..They use Kobolds as slaves.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: I've heard that some magnetars are strong enough to possibly pull atoms apart. Is this truly possible?
Pff. Fluorescent lamps can do that much. Atoms just aren't very strongly built. Conceivably you actually read that a magnetar can pull atomic nuclei apart, which is a much better trick.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: I've heard that some magnetars are strong enough to possibly pull atoms apart. Is this truly possible?
Pff. Fluorescent lamps can do that much. Atoms just aren't very strongly built. Conceivably you actually read that a magnetar can pull atomic nuclei apart, which is a much better trick.
Wow. I forgot my nuclear science training for a moment. I know the difference.
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Every time I read the thread title, I feel like exhaling and spreading out just a little more.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: As long as you keep in mind that many religious people believe that the "day" referred to in Genesis was just a time period used by man to split the different creative periods used by God to create the universe, I am with you.
That's going to be at odds with most 'fundies,' who ascribe to biblical literalism. the first day was the length of a day today, etc etc
magnataur was also a hero in DotA: strength based, great carry hero, with a ranged AoE disable. Also as cool as magnetars.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: I've heard that some magnetars are strong enough to possibly pull atoms apart. Is this truly possible?
Pff. Fluorescent lamps can do that much. Atoms just aren't very strongly built. Conceivably you actually read that a magnetar can pull atomic nuclei apart, which is a much better trick.
Wow. I forgot my nuclear science training for a moment. I know the difference.
Fair enough. Back of the envelope: The difference between the neutron and proton magnetic moments is about 25x10^{-27} J/T, or 6.24x10^{-7} eV/T. Multiply by the quoted value of ten gigaTesla, and you get around 6keV. That's small compared to the MeV-scale binding energies of nuclei, so it seems to me that you would not be able to rip nuclei apart. However, that's for nuclei at rest. If you shot them through at some decent fraction of lightspeed, you might get a different result.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: As long as you keep in mind that many religious people believe that the "day" referred to in Genesis was just a time period used by man to split the different creative periods used by God to create the universe, I am with you.
That's going to be at odds with most 'fundies,' who ascribe to biblical literalism. the first day was the length of a day today, etc etc
magnataur was also a hero in DotA: strength based, great carry hero, with a ranged AoE disable. Also as cool as magnetars.
Sadly this is what League of Legends is missing.. A Magnataur would be great. Instead we get a little schoolgirl that drops huge mutant bears on my head.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
it also has an alien made out of granite, a huge elder creature from the far realm, and a metal-clad badass with a huge spiked mace, etc etc
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
