First he takes our National Day of Prayer, and now this! What's next, Independence Day? Christmas?! That muslim will NOT take MY Christmas away!!
Ahem...
edit: Before it's brought up, no I'm not insinuating. I've seen and heard this exact sentiment a few times already today.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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It is hard to pin down what Obama is really for. What he says means nothing, and never has. The only safe thing is to say that he is definitely NOT pro-American. And that is unforgiveable in a president. Some of us saw this going in, and that is why we did not vote for him. But now increasing numbers of people who did vote for him, are suffering "buyer's remorse." Too bad it came so late!
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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I am still proud to have voted for Obama. I don't like everything he has done, but that's not surprising. Politics is dirty and mired in closed-door deals and compromise. I like his attitude, his speeches, his actions, and his interactions with the other people of this planet, for the most part.
He makes me feel proud to be an American. Bush never did that. I felt ashamed most of the time.
Posts: 1711 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Making a tradition out of Clinton's grandstanding Arlington visits was a bad idea. I'm glad Obama's discontinuing it.
Another "tradition" I'd like to see die: saying "the state of the Union is strong" or the equivalent. Heck, if you're going to do that, just put a dashboard graphic on WhiteHouse.gov labeled "State of the Union," with an arrow permanently pointing to "strong." That gives you, like, twenty extra seconds to actually say something meaningful.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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"I hate America. And I'm going to spend years of my life as a public servant to it, with dreams of one day becoming the president of this country I hate so much!"
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Strider, that sounds more like Michelle than Barack. She said she only was able to be proud of America for the first time when her husband was elected. Despite all the advantages they both had, free-rides academically, help with writing papers, political patronage and mentoring, etc.
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Ron Lambert you are worse then anything Orwell had ever wrote about, you are worse then those who would rewrite history, you simply ignore it.
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Academic free rides? Weren't both Barack and Michelle still paying off their law school loans until his second book was published? Even so, the vast majority of their wealth has come from his book writing, etc. What natural advantages have they had? I don't necessarily buy into some of the rhetoric and image-creation that Obama has done for his own history, but Michelle appears to have had a fairly regular middle class upbringing, and Obama's upbringing doesn't appear to be particularly advantaged, or disadvantaged. Their success appears to be largely of their own making.
Furthermore, specific to this Memorial Day thing. Let's look at how we're weighting this thing. On the one side, we have his actual performance as Commander-in-Chief, his strategic decisions, his handling of the military, his choices in the Defense Department and his work with Congress on defense appropriations bills....and on the other hand we have him not attending a photo op on Memorial Day.
And I'm supposed to vilify him for it? I know America tends to obsess over some ridiculously stupid things, but are we seriously to the point where substance is totally disregarded, and all we care about are a series of empty gestures? Please tell me you aren't that easily manipulated.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Maybe he doesn't hate the military. It's a coincidence he's the first president in a very long time to walk away from the ceremonies at Arlington,...on Veteran's Memorial Day. Sorry...to be PC...Memorial Day.
I can't say he hates the military for going against the will of the vast majority of military members by opposing "Don't Ask Don't Tell". He has a habit of going against the will of the American people.... health care, stimulus, AZ immigration law.
The only successes this president can claim are things against the will of the majority of Americans. He knows he isn't going to be reelected and Dems are going to lose the congress in the fall. They fooled the people with promises of hope and change...now they defy the people's will for an agenda.....while they are in control. Maybe he can make Puerto Rico a state and grant amnesty to illegals prior to his next election....that'll give him a fighting chance.
I'm glad to hear Obama state he has been in charge of the oil spill, "since day one" and the white house lawyers have decided the Sestack job offer was fine. (people forget, it's the white house lawyers job to defend the administration...we aren't going to accept the defense lawyer's assurances without an impartial investigation). Blago and Obama are two peas in a pod.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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Aw for shame. Misrepresentations and untruths.
First off, more than 70% of Americans are okay with ending DADT. Second, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the SecDef are okay with ending DADT. Third, there aren't a lot of hard and fast numbers on what the rank-and-file military soldier thinks. That's part of the what the review is supposed to ascertain over the next several months. So, you're wrong on the national view, wrong on the view of the brass, and I guess making stuff up about the military at large. Besides, the military said the same things about black people and women. Maybe we shouldn't blindly go about protecting the status quo when the status quo is wrong.
As far as Memorial Day goes, near as I can tell the tradition started in the 1990s. Oh no! Obama is defiling a tradition that's began like 18 years ago! Sacrilege! It's not a tradition that Reagan or GHWB followed. It started with ::gasp!:: a Democrat! Clinton! The guy who used the military to cover-up and divert attention away from his sex scandals! Bush sent Cheney to one of the Veteran's Day ceremonies, he must hate the troops too!
By the way, after Bush woefully underfunded a VA that was found to be rife with poor care and mismanagement, Obama was the one who took up the issue to try and fix it, appropriating a lot of new money to make sure veterans get the care they need. What matters more to you, actually taking care of living veterans, or not going to a photo op to smile and take some pictures at the graves of those now dead in order to score political points? Maybe he's honoring them more by not using dead soldiers as political fodder. And yes, despite the waving the bloody shirt rhetoric of the right, I would defend a Republican president on those same grounds for the same offense.
By the by, what do you actually know about the history of Puerto Rico? Puerto Rico hasn't become a state, or spun off into an independent country thus far because they've chosen not to in public elections. I don't think Obama has a vested interest in getting them admitted one way or the other, but even if he did, I suspect he'd have zero influence in doing so.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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This is the perfect example of how the Progressive agenda works. When I was a kid, we had "Veteran's Memorial Day"....now we have "Memorial Day". Two decades ago it was a day to reflect on the vets who gave their lives. Now it's a day to remember those who have died and our president no longer visits Arlington.
Subtle shifts, the frog in the pan of water. Veteran's Memorial Day is a lot younger than the Constitution of The United States.
Is there a difference between "Veteran's Memorial Day" and "Memorial Day"? President's don't visit Arlington on "Memorial Day" but no president would skip Arlington on "Veteran's Memorial Day". Is there a difference between "Illegal Aliens" and "Undocumented Workers"? Yes, there is a difference and Progressive's are the masters of semantics. It takes years to redefine reality and Progressives are very patient. Now, the constitution is dead and we're taught our founders were atheist.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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So your complaint is that "Progressives" are better at reading a calendar than you are?
By the by, I've always understood the difference to be that Memorial Day is for honoring the dead, and Veteran's Day is for honoring the living.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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"Memorial Day is a United States federal holiday observed on the last Monday of May (May 31 in 2010). Formerly known as Decoration Day, it commemorates U.S. men and women who died while in the military service."
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I don't think it should be required, no. But then, I hate most perfunctory presidential actions. I think a lot of them are a waste of time that are demanded because if they fail to follow in the rituals they'll suffer needless political retribution. I think presidents have far better things to do with their times, like actually fix the problems in the VA, rather than spending two hours on a photo op.
It's ridiculous that we often give presidents credit for attendance but not for the actual work they do while on the job.
Seriously, if Obama changes his mind and decides to go, I expect to wake up this weekend and find southern protesters demonstrating in front of the White House with the stars and bars waving, complaining that Obama is being disrespectful to the south because Arlington was built on land stolen from General Lee as a swipe at him during the war. This kind of crap is useless and counterproductive.
Do you seriously think that not honoring a tradition that is less than 20 years old is indicative of his hatred for the military?
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Bush was thrashed for playing golf once a month. This president plays more than once per week, in between white house basketball, Wednesday parties and visits on the ESPN and the Jay Leno show. It's mighty fine of him to spend three hours in Louisiana when one golf game is five hours......without a single mention of a 500 year flood in Tennessee. (no video of looting an riots in Nashville) Of course, looting and riots are justified rage for the oppressed and disadvantaged in our society.
To quote you: "Do you seriously think that not honoring a tradition that is less than 20 years old is indicative of his hatred for the military?"
No, he doesn't hate the military. Nor does he hate this country. At the same time he wants to "fundamentally transform it" and is perfectly willing to ignore a 200 year old constitution. I'm not surprised a 20 year presidential tradition is meaningless...our founding principles of 200 years ago are meaningless. The constitution is an obstruction to this man.
Anyone who can ignore our founding fathers can easily brush off a 20 year old holiday to honor American soldiers who died in battle.
I might be out of line. I'm not pious enough to have written an autobiography in my twenties, before anyone knew who I was. Obama has always known he was special, even before the rest of the world knew how special he was. Maybe he'll give another press conference, in another 300 days.
I'm going to tell my wife "I love you but I want to fundamentally transform you"
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:No, he doesn't hate the military. Nor does he hate this country.
Thank you for answering the question. You could have left out the boilerplate.
I love my wife and children but am considering "fundamentally transforming them". They are the best but I can make them better. I wrote an autobiography in my twenties, before accomplishing anything. I know I have the best in the world but I can make it better.
He doesn't hate the best military in the world. He doesn't hate the best country in the world. He can make them better....by making them weaker. He loves America but he's misguided and ignorant.
How's that nice talk working out? Did you know 2009 had the more terrorist attacks in US borders than any other year in US history? How are things going with Iran? Obama's so good,... N. Korea is falling in line...right?
Hey, he won a Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe he can give a speech and Kim Jong Il wont sink another S Korean ship.
If we still had Bush....46 S. Korean Sailors would still be alive and Iran would be many more steps short of having nuclear weapons.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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::Considers walking away...realizes he has nothing better to do...gets sucked back in::
Well, first of all, your analogy is silly. You don't enter your marriage with an agenda of things you want to fix, do you? Presidential candidates always run on a platform of things they want to do to make America better, whether they're conservative or liberal, it's a function of presidential politics and the modern presidency.
"Listen honey, I think you should marry me because I want to make you a better person than you are right now. I mean, you're great and all, that's why I want to fix you so much, cause you could be so much better! Marry me, and in four years I'll have made you the best person you could possibly be!"
I hear wedding bells!
Dreams from My Father was first published in 1995, and since Obama was born in 1961. That makes him 34, not in his twenties.
And yeah, Bush was great at getting North Korea to toe the line. China has a cutoff switch for most of their power, provides most of their food, and has more influence on them than anyone in the world, and even THEY can't get N. Korea to toe behave. They're the most unpredictable country in the world, and you think Bush, the nation's worst diplomat in chief in recent memory, was what was keeping them in check? And actually, things are going better in Iran than when Bush was in charge. Iran just agreed to a material swap with Turkey and Brazil, and Obama has Russia and China closer to signing on to sanctions than Bush ever was. Diplomacy does have limits. If Iran really wants one, they'll get a nuclear weapon. Unless we invade, it will happen.
This is fun, it's like some sort of political smear machine grab bag. You never know what new and totally unrelated issue you'll bring up next! It's an exercise in taking the shotgun approach to arguing. Instead of detailing a single criticism, you just throw a dozen things out there and figure one of them has to hit something. We started on the military, then you tossed in the oil spill, and somehow even Puerto Rico got in there, and now we're talking about golf, North Korea, and ESPN!
Oh, I forgot to mention, if you want to carp on Obama for playing golf, you might take notice of the fact that Obama took fewer vacation days in his first year than Bush by a pretty dramatic number. Obama: 26 full or partial days. Bush: 69 full or partial days. He also took fewer trips to Camp David, and had more "working" vacations that split time between public appearances and free time.
In fact, going back to Carter, all Democrats have taken fewer vacation days in the first year than all Republicans going back to 1977. Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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You're right, I have nothing better to do. My infrequency makes me a troll. The rest of the week I'm working 12+ hours a day to "pay my fair share". "First Published" isn't time written. Even by your first published standard, he was still nothing. His beloved aunt from that heart felt book is still living in the projects. Obama never believed in Black Liberation Theology but he went to that church to get votes and learn how to speak. Obama loves America but thinks he knows better than the founders.
I've seriously considered walking away from Hatrack. There's nothing I can say that is more convincing than the reality around us. I'm wasting my time arguing with cult members. Not necessarily the cult of Obama but the cult that gave us Obama. Follow Pelosi's advice if you're an artist, quit your job....the government will take care of you.
Sorry,....your time has come. The great awakening is happening. The majority of Americans are against the bailouts and for the AZ laws. The majority of Americans are against Obama. All the debate doesn't matter....time will dictate the winner of this debate. People like me don't have to lie to win votes. Deceivers can win elections but their rule show's the truth. Many people have apologized to me for voting for Obama and arguing with me prior to the election.
Enjoy it while it lasts. You have a few more months.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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But either way, you think Obama wrote it, stuck it in a drawer for a decade, then published it? Have you ever read the book? I haven't, but I'd be surprised if the contents of the book cut off when he was in his twenties.
Hell, I love America, and I think the Founders' theories and ideas don't apply to a lot of what we have to deal with in the 21st century. Is that really a surprise, that a document written when parchment was the written medium of choice, and the steam engine hadn't even been invented yet? The Founders wrote slavery into the Constitution, and no rights for women. They were wrong. They were wrong about a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff they made provisions for no longer apply, and a lot of stuff that is important to us today didn't even exist back then. The writers of the Constitution got a lot of stuff right, and left a lot of stuff vague for us to figure out later. They are called framers for a reason. They framed an unfinished picture that we had to create long after they were gone. They gave us an outline, but we have to fill in the details. We do that on a yearly, sometimes daily basis. They might have disagreed with his, but the Framers weren't prophets or gods, they were fallible, they were men, and they were wrong about a lot of stuff.
For all the accusations you have about people following the Cult of Obama, it sounds like you follow the Cult of the Founders (which I admit has a cooler name).
There aren't many, or really any Obama Cultists around here. I'm not 100% happy with Obama. But when I think about what McCain wanted to do, and what Republicans in general would have continued to do if they hadn't been ousted in 2006, I still feel good for voting for Obama. I'm not a Democrat, and generally dislike Democrats, but I am a liberal, with a few "conservative" quirks here and there. There are a lot of what you would call radical changes that I'd be pleased as punch to see happen to America.
I'm for doing what makes sense to help the most people in the most effective and efficient way possible. Pragmatism is the only dogma I bow to, rather than ideological tenets that box people into "small government" or "big government" mantras, and whatever other ideological liberal vs. conservative binary you want to apply to the situation. I've never cast a vote for a candidate that I agree with 100%, and I likely never will.
You know, if you actually check polling data on the bailouts, I think you'll find there is a different between people not liking the bailouts, and people thinking they shouldn't have happened. I didn't like them either, but I think without them, we'd have been in a far worse mess than we are now. And if you follow the actual paper trail, most of that money appears on track to be paid back. And for that matter, most of that was done under BUSH, not OBAMA.
As far as immigration goes, what do you want to do? Round up 11 million people and send them home? Literally round them all up and deport them? Not only is it likely impossible, and a logistical nightmare, it would be cost prohibitive.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Yeah, some times I can't resist the argument either.
I'm not coming at this from a Pro-President point of view or a pro-liberal point of view. I am from a pro-fact point of view.
First fact, when you give your title a viscous over-the-top name like "Obama Hates The Military" and back it up with one piece of news about him skipping one ceremony, you destroy your credibility.
When you add to that an outright lie, well, only people who already agree with you will take you seriously.
The lie being that the President stole your "National Day of Prayer." He did no such thing. When a group of Atheists challenged it in court President Obama sent a legal team to defend it. He is for prayer, and Christian prayer at that.
If you disagree with the President's policies--for example you believe that bombing Iran would convince them that they don't need a nuclear weapon for their own defense, or that the US should never use diplomacy without it including superior military force, fine, bring on the facts and we discuss.
But if all you are going to do is throw out accusations and claim victory, well, I am not impressed.
Each accusation that Mal has brought up are serious and should be considered in depth. However, Mal's arguments are not done in depth. Instead he jumps from accusation to accusation, defending one by bringing in another. This is great for media-masters to confuse the issues, but it is not a discussion.
Finally, I'm in my mid-40's and as far back as I can remember it has always been called Memorial Day, and the Memorial is and has always been to remember those who have given their lives to defend this country.
I don't know of a single person who has ever suggested that this holiday be for some generic, "Remember the dead" day. It is a day for cleaning veterans graves, laying flowers on them, or flags, or what ever is in your heart.
The Hatrack community has lost a couple members to the wars in Irag and Afghanistan. Later this weekend I will start a thread so that we can remember all our war dead, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
Do me a favor. Don't disrespect those who have died for our country by bringing in politics to that thread.
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Yeah, some times I can't resist the argument either.
I'm not coming at this from a Pro-President point of view or a pro-liberal point of view. I am from a pro-fact point of view.
First fact, when you give your title a viscous over-the-top name like "Obama Hates The Military" and back it up with one piece of news about him skipping one ceremony, you destroy your credibility.
When you add to that an outright lie, well, only people who already agree with you will take you seriously.
The lie being that the President stole your "National Day of Prayer." He did no such thing. When a group of Atheists challenged it in court President Obama sent a legal team to defend it. He is for prayer, and Christian prayer at that.
If you disagree with the President's policies--for example you believe that bombing Iran would convince them that they don't need a nuclear weapon for their own defense, or that the US should never use diplomacy without it including superior military force, fine, bring on the facts and we discuss.
But if all you are going to do is throw out accusations and claim victory, well, I am not impressed.
Each accusation that Mal has brought up are serious and should be considered in depth. However, Mal's arguments are not done in depth. Instead he jumps from accusation to accusation, defending one by bringing in another. This is great for media-masters to confuse the issues, but it is not a discussion.
Finally, I'm in my mid-40's and as far back as I can remember it has always been called Memorial Day, and the Memorial is and has always been to remember those who have given their lives to defend this country.
I don't know of a single person who has ever suggested that this holiday be for some generic, "Remember the dead" day. It is a day for cleaning veterans graves, laying flowers on them, or flags, or what ever is in your heart.
The Hatrack community has lost a couple members to the wars in Irag and Afghanistan. Later this weekend I will start a thread so that we can remember all our war dead, if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
Do me a favor. Don't disrespect those who have died for our country by bringing in politics to that thread.
quote:Maybe he doesn't hate the military. It's a coincidence he's the first president in a very long time to walk away from the ceremonies at Arlington,...on Veteran's Memorial Day. Sorry...to be PC...Memorial Day.
G.W Bush didn't attend memorial day ceremonies at Arlington in 2002. G.H.W. Bush didn't attend memorial day ceremonies at Arlington in 1989,1990,1991,or 1992. Reagan didn't attend memorial day ceremonies at Arlington in 1981,1983,1987 or 1988.
Is it a coincidence that neither you nor the right wing cared about whether or not the President was in Arlington on memorial day until the President was a democrat?
Is it a coincidence that you are repeating this easily disproved lie without bother to check the facts or are you part of the group that disdains the fact based reality in favor of one you make up?
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Bush was thrashed for playing golf once a month. This president plays more than once per week,
Source Please. And is that an average? Meaning he has played gold over 75 times during his presidency at this point? Is that what you're claiming? You expect this to be believed?
ETA: Oh no... oh dear me... the telegraph puts the number at 32 in April. That's rather less than "more than once a week" during his presidency. That's around twice a month.
You're a liar mal. You are a liar. You are a shameless, bald-faced liar. And everyone here knows that you are.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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It really bugs me when people politicize things like observance of memorial day or the flag. If patriotism has any value, it is in its ability to unite people. Franklin coined the term American, to unite people. Its supposed to remind us that all of us are Americans. We may be liberals or conservatives, rich or poor, south or north, easterners or westerners, red staters or blue staters, religious or non-religious, urban or rural, but we are ALL Americans. Belonging to one of those groups vs the other doesn't make a person any more or less American or patriotic. Those who use the symbols of patriotism to divide the nation rather than unite it, have destroyed any value in patriotism.
There is a certain amount of wisdom in having a head of state who is not head of government (as is the case in most other democratic nations). That way the head of state, who has few if any official government duties and is a non-partisan, non-political figure head can do things like put flowers on graves. Its a potent symbol that somethings about a country transcend political lines. That way the country can feel united rather than divided by displays of patriotism and the government leaders can tend to the business of governing rather than putting on media shows to prove they are more American than the opposition.
[ May 29, 2010, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
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quote:You're right, I have nothing better to do. My infrequency makes me a troll. The rest of the week I'm working 12+ hours a day to "pay my fair share".
Two things.
1: Drop the martyr complex, nobody around here is going to tie you up, flay you alive, and lynch you for having opinions. So stop acting like you are back against the wall fighting for the very existence of this country and maybe even your life.
2: You being busy working a job and taking care of a family is admirable, I doubt anybody here would criticize that. You are called a troll because you are intentionally obtuse, and say things explicitly in such a manner as to maximize an emotional response. You are exactly as Lyrhawn described you. You take a shotgun, squeeze off a shell, and hope one of the pellets penetrates. Never mind people keep explaining in an often perfectly calm and direct manner where you are going wrong.
You could easily admit that you were mistaken about Obama breaking some sort of time honored American tradition by going to Arlington on Memorial Day. If you did, people would listen to some of your more salient points. Because you don't, you're regarded as the village mad man who throws his feces at everybody. You could have acknowledged the research others did that clearly show that statistics are not on your side. Heck you could even argue that you believe these other presidents who didn't go to Arlington were also doing their serviceman a disservice. That argument might actually gain traction. Instead, you will probably ignore this whole post and pretend I never wrote it, along with everybody else, except for the blurbs you can quote, twist, and regurgitate into some strange form bearing no resemblance to the original point, or other regurgitations except that they smell.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Just wanted to point out, Obama is going to a graveyard on memorial day and honoring dead veterans- just not the standard Arlington ones. Don't all our dead deserve to be honored, not just the famous ones?
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The White Whale: He makes me feel proud to be an American. Bush never did that. I felt ashamed most of the time.
That's exactly how I felt after spending several months in the jungles of Costa Rica, only to come back to the the Abu Ghraib issue of Time sitting on newsstands in Costa Rica's capital, San Jose. Yay, everybody! I'm an American! We believe in human rights!
The Bush/Cheney legacy is the gift that just keeps on giving. It's kind of like an STD that way.
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:The Bush/Cheney legacy is the gift that just keeps on giving. It's kind of like an STD that way.
Fantastic quote from Jon Stewart a couple of weeks ago: "It's crazy. It's like no matter what happens during the Obama Administration, there's the perfect Bush f*** up for the occasion."
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quote: First fact, when you give your title a viscous over-the-top name like "Obama Hates The Military" and back it up with one piece of news about him skipping one ceremony, you destroy your credibility.
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Lyrhawn, it has been remarked at length by others that literary evidence suggests that William Ayers wrote Obama's books. There may have been some effort on the part of the extreme left wing patrons to hide their footprints in the cultivation and prepping of Obama. But they can still be found. Every step of Obama's political career has been orchestrated by people who have proven themselves to be decidedly unAmerican. Like William Ayers, who planted bombs and killed people, in expression of his left-wing rage. Obama came to politics in the unusually corrupt cauldron of Chicago politics. He made deals with people like Tony Rezko. But of course it is all explained away as innocent coincidence. William Ayers was "just a guy who lived down the street." The Irreverend Wright, who preached hateful anti-American diatribes for 20 years at Obama's church, was just "an embarassing uncle" whose treasonous extremism he never noticed or censured throughout those 20 years.
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2. Ayers was never proven to have been involved in any attacks that killed or harmed people. In fact, that's something he supposedly prided himself on. I consider the destruction of property and the murder of innocents to be on two entirely different levels. I don't know about you. I'm not excusing what he's admitted to have done, but if you're going to vilify him, you lose credibility by tacking on extra goodies.
2b. His left-wing rage? He formed a Communist based terrorist group. That's not the left wing, that's the ultra, uber far left extreme. I'm on the left. Ayers is about a millions to the left of me.
2c. I haven't seen any concrete evidence that Ayers and Obama were ever close allies. They worked together for Chicago schools IIRC, but any political alliances I've seen them accused of have been a product of the right-wing smear machine more than anything. If you have evidence, I'll read it.
3. "People like Tony Rezko." All I remember is him buying some land from Rezko. Feel free to expand on that. And feel free to tell me who these "people" are, or are you just making that up?
4. Wright is a curious figure, and I remember knowing more about this back when the controversy was big in the news, but some of what Wright was attacked for saying didn't surprise me, or offend me at all coming from an inner-city black minister. His history is different from yours, as it his experience, and I'd suggest that some of the anti-Americanism you paint him with is the aspect of Americanism that keeps minorities in America from achieving the same status that whites have had for generations. But that's a complicated topic.
Either way, nice job throwing a half dozen attacks totally unrelated to anything we've talked about in this thread into the mix. Palin would be proud.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Lyrhawn, it has been remarked at length by others that literary evidence suggests that William Ayers wrote Obama's books.
It has been remarked at length that the earth is flat and that Obama was born in Kenya and is a secret muslim.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: Just wanted to point out, Obama is going to a graveyard on memorial day and honoring dead veterans- just not the standard Arlington ones. Don't all our dead deserve to be honored, not just the famous ones?
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: It is hard to pin down what Obama is really for. What he says means nothing, and never has. The only safe thing is to say that he is definitely NOT pro-American. And that is unforgiveable in a president. Some of us saw this going in, and that is why we did not vote for him. But now increasing numbers of people who did vote for him, are suffering "buyer's remorse." Too bad it came so late!
President Theodore Roosevelt said we must "Speak softly, but carry a big stick." I see President Obama doing just that, speaking softly and humbly which is an American virtue. I see the President's increase in troops in Afghanistan and his continued expansion of the drone attacks in Pakistan as firmly using his big stick.
However I get the feeling that anything short of bombing Iran and nuking North Korea, as well as the same Cowboy Style Bluster and "Your with us or against us--Unilateral plus whoever we can force or bribe policies of President Bush will be seen as weak.
Or perhaps its that he is pro-American but not Pro-Wealthy American, or Pro-Business that people see as not being Pro-American.
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Speaking softly and carrying a big stick? Obama certainly speaks softly but our enemies know he doesn't carry any kind of a stick. If speaking softly is a virtue, Obama is a saint. He goes beyond speaking softly, he travels the world apologizing for America.
Obama self flagellates and the only stick he carries is the one he's using to flagellate America.
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