posted
What about the Christian movements? Ever think support for Israel comes from them? Jews only make up 2% of our country's population.
Aren't there a few Christian denomtinations that believe something about Jesus coming back when all the Jews are back in Israel? These people have much more voting power then Jews do. Especially when 25% of Jews live in just one place, New York.
The idea that such a small minority group has so much control is just insane.
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sa'eed: Nice play for sympathy. Shall I post stories about Jews kicking out Arabs out of their homes in East Jerusalem or stories about Israeli soldiers punching Palestinian youth in the face? Nah, that would be kind of cheap.
No need, thats the point. We see stories like that all the time.
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quote:Originally posted by sinflower: ... Well, I don't for one second believe that there is a "Jewish conspiracy" to control the media. I do believe that higher proportional representation of a group in the media industry leads to that group's interests getting more airtime ... This is why I support diversity in the news industry in general--to mitigate that effect.
... So how to increase representation of Arabs in the news industry?
Bing. After all, there's more of a Christian male bias as opposed to a Jewish bias, which doesn't exactly aid coverage of the Middle East as well.
As for the latter, your guess is as good as mine, but the two forces of a decreasing (television/newspaper) news pie and the drumming out of figures such as Helen Thomas or Octavia Nasr doesn't exactly bode well.
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I think I'm going to bow out of this discussion, but not before shaking up my head one last time, and spilling a few lonely, rattling thoughts onto the proverbial table, like rhetorical dice.
1)There is no guarantee of "proportionality" in American discourse. There are more democrats in media than not. Most media is headquartered in New York. You can't get a two hour statistical analysis of global warming studies on tv; you can get a two hour show about Britney and Lindsay on tv. Get over it. The constitution says the government can't stop you from expressing your ideas, it doesn't guarantee you an audience.
One idea which is central to American discourse is the concept of a "marketplace of ideas." If you possess a convincing, truthful argument for your anti-zionism, it will find the audience it deserves.
2)The Arab-Israeli conflict has been studied and debated and periodically revisited numerous times, (some might say way too much considering its relative importance). Maybe people have made up their minds. Maybe a lot of people have decided not to care too much about it.
Before concluding that Baskin-Robbins is out to get you, consider that maybe people don't like your broccoli-flavored ice cream.
3)Are Roger Aisles, Rupert Murdoch, Ted Turner, Bewkes, and Jeff Immelt Jewish? I don't know, I'm just asking.
4)I read the profile of Haim Saban you linked to. I wasn't particularly bothered to learn that a dual-citizenship Jew is passionate about Israel and determined to do all he can to influence American politics to help Israel.
I am a little bothered (but not particularly surprised) to know that once you have 6 billion dollars from your work in cartoons, you have the ability to pick up the phone and get John MCCain, Hillary Clinton, Terry MacCauliffe, etc. on the line in a matter of minutes....
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quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: I think I'm going to bow out of this discussion, but not before shaking up my head one last time, and spilling a few lonely, rattling thoughts onto the proverbial table, like rhetorical dice.
1)There is no guarantee of "proportionality" in American discourse. There are more democrats in media than not. Most media is headquartered in New York. You can't get a two hour statistical analysis of global warming studies on tv; you can get a two hour show about Britney and Lindsay on tv. Get over it. The constitution says the government can't stop you from expressing your ideas, it doesn't guarantee you an audience.
I mostly agree with this except for the "no audience" assertion. A lot of Americans would find Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer presenting their theory on CNN/MSNBC to be interesting. That these two aren't called on those networks stems from Jewish media influence rather than producers thinking "jee whiz no one would be interested in the ideas of these." That's because their assertion is taboo, and it has become that way because of the political power of Jews and their influence in the media. The point isn't to say "that's just not fair" but rather to create awareness that the news about Israel, and debates about Israel, are both significantly being filtered to the American audience by a people who strongly take a side in the conflict out of ethnic-religious reasons.
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: As for the latter, your guess is as good as mine, but the two forces of a decreasing (television/newspaper) news pie and the drumming out of figures such as Helen Thomas or Octavia Nasr doesn't exactly bode well.
Thomas is not just anti-Israel; she's anti-semitic. You saw what happened to Michael Richards when he displayed anti-black racism publically. Thomas deserved the same thing.
Ironically, she recognizes that Israel is a Jewish state, because everything she said in the video that got her busted was about Jews.
"These people" need to return to Germany and Poland, she said. Well, "these people" aren't Israelis, which would include Arab Israelis. They're Jews. And among the people she wants to kick out are Jews whose families have lived in Israel for well over a century.
If we have to accept that the Arab invasion in the 7th century grants the descendents of those invaders any sort of rights to be there, then the Jews who returned in the 19th and 20th centuries have the same rights. There's no magic cutoff point between 690 and 1881.
And Nasr vocally supported a terrorist group which encourages mass murder and the indoctrinating of young children to be mass murderers as well. You've seen the videos that I posted. That was from official Hamas TV. That's who Nasr came out in support of.
Had she come out in support of Fred Phelps or some neo-Nazi group, she would have gotten the same treatment. The American public has a sense of decency that simply won't tolerate that sort of thing.
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I did in the remainder of my post. She couldn't have been talking about Israelis, because most Israelis are not only not from Germany or Poland, most of them have never even visited there. Not to mention the not-inconsiderable number of Arab Israelis.
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Unless you have a longer version, the remarks are:
quote:1. Nesenoff: Any comments on Israel? We're asking everybody today, any comments on Israel? 2. Thomas: Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine. 3. Nesenoff: Oooh. Any better comments on Israel? 4. Thomas: Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not German, it's not Poland ... 5. Nesenoff: So where should they go, what should they do? 6. Thomas: They go home. 7. Nesenoff: Where's the home? 8. Thomas: Poland. Germany. 9. Nesenoff: So you're saying the Jews go back to Poland and Germany? 10. Thomas: And America and everywhere else. Why push people out of there who have lived there for centuries? See?
I've numbered lines for convenience of discussion. Which line do you get anti-Semitic from as opposed to anti-Israel? For example, what traits does she ascribe to Jewish people?
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This interview said that she made no secret of her pro-Arab, pro-Palestine views for decades, frequently challenging presidents for their support of Israel.
If the AP is run by Jews, why was she allowed to sit up front and do this for so many years?
Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: I feel like we're missing a step.
Unless you have a longer version, the remarks are:
quote:1. Nesenoff: Any comments on Israel? We're asking everybody today, any comments on Israel? 2. Thomas: Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine. 3. Nesenoff: Oooh. Any better comments on Israel? 4. Thomas: Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not German, it's not Poland ... 5. Nesenoff: So where should they go, what should they do? 6. Thomas: They go home. 7. Nesenoff: Where's the home? 8. Thomas: Poland. Germany. 9. Nesenoff: So you're saying the Jews go back to Poland and Germany? 10. Thomas: And America and everywhere else. Why push people out of there who have lived there for centuries? See?
I've numbered lines for convenience of discussion. Which line do you get anti-Semitic from as opposed to anti-Israel? For example, what traits does she ascribe to Jewish people?
posted
Lines 6,7, and 8 seem to add up to "Jews from Poland and Germany (but not from "America or everywhere else" from line 10) should go back home to Poland and Germany."
Presumably this would weaken the state of Israel, but what does this say about Jewish people that is actually anti-semitic? Is being Polish or German inherently a negative trait or something?
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Could it be a matter of connotation? Could it be that most Jews coming to Israel from Poland and Germany were specifically trying to avoid the ovens in those two countries?
Regardless, something about Helen Thomas's statement struck these two guys as "offensive" and "reprehensible."
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Lines 6,7, and 8 seem to add up to "Jews from Poland and Germany (but not from "America or everywhere else" from line 10) should go back home to Poland and Germany."
Presumably this would weaken the state of Israel, but what does this say about Jewish people that is actually anti-semitic? Is being Polish or German inherently a negative trait or something?
Those comments are easy for a reactionary zionist to take as anti-semitic, but on their own they're only really anti-israel.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Any group that has been prevented from having a voice in the past would seek to make sure they will have one in the future.
Be that as it may, that current advantage/dominance is currently used in the interest of Israel by shutting out voices deemed too critical of Israel.
quote:The fact that the debate you linked to was aired, on NPR no less, shows that you are wrong. There IS a debate, and many sides are being heard. This isn't a binary situation....it isn't just one said or the other. Many people, such as myself, support Israel but do not believe that they are perfect, or that they do everything right.
But the parameters of the debate were absurd. That's the point. Two zionists argued against each other.
quote:Extremist rarely get airtime. They just don't represent the views of most people, and the very fact that hey are extreme limits their exposure.
Jewish media dominance has made it so that non-Zionists voices, or those who agree with the Walt-Mearsheimer thesis, are deemed as "extremists." This is a specification of how Jewish dominance media serves Jewish interests.
Nope. People are aware of those views. They just don't care what they have to say, because their views are so extreme. The "Jewish control" you talk about isn't control at all. It's involvement, and their is nothing wrong or underhanded about that at all.
We don't ask Jack Chick to a gay rights debate, but not because he doesn't have views on the subject. We don't because we already know what he is going to say, and we know that he is going to use hate language hidden as gospel.
We also know we don't really care what he has to say on the subject.
There is hardly a lack of voices against Israel in the media, so your arguments don't even appear to have a logical foundation. But don't let the stop you from crying foul. Just don't expect anyone above the age of 14 to take you serious about it.
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quote:Originally posted by Flying Fish: Could it be a matter of connotation? Could it be that most Jews coming to Israel from Poland and Germany were specifically trying to avoid the ovens in those two countries?
posted
I think thats a bit of a stretch unless you know she was intending on having them go back in time-travelling DeLoreans or something.
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I don't think it's a stretch at all. When you have even the President making idiotic statements about how the State of Israel was created because of the Holocaust, it feeds into the Arab nonsense about "Why should we have to pay for what the Europeans did to the Jews."
She was absolutely referring to Germany and Poland for a reason. The country the most Israelis hail from is probably Russia. But that wouldn't have suited Her Despicableness.
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The "Jews run the media" debate is old and busted. How come we never hear "Jews run the legal system" or "Jews make all the candy fattening" debates? Let's make this interesting.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Had she come out in support of Fred Phelps or some neo-Nazi group, she would have gotten the same treatment. The American public has a sense of decency that simply won't tolerate that sort of thing. [/QB]
Please. The American public didn't care. But the small and powerful Zionist faction did.
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Sa'eed, we are aware that this is your opinion. We also have pretty much disagreed. As you have no proof, and the people you are defending ARE extreme, how about we sing a new tune?
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Had she come out in support of Fred Phelps or some neo-Nazi group, she would have gotten the same treatment. The American public has a sense of decency that simply won't tolerate that sort of thing.
Please. The American public didn't care. But the small and powerful Zionist faction did. [/QB]
I know quite a few people who were very upset, and I would not say they are Pro-Israeli.
But that's just anecdotal evidence.
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: ... the people you are defending ARE extreme, how about we sing a new tune?
Extreme is relative. I don't think anti-Israel comments to the extent that Helen Thomas said would have drummed someone out of the NDP in Canada (double-checking, Libby Davis made pretty much the same comments, albeit more polite and survived the controversy as deputy leader for the NDP in Parliament). So *shrug*
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The "Jews run the media" debate is old and busted. How come we never hear "Jews run the legal system" or "Jews make all the candy fattening" debates? Let's make this interesting.
And Jews make health care expensive. Let's not forget that.
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posted
My Jewish room mate has a story of some TV show he once saw about anti-semitism. One scene has always stuck with him, where a young girl (under 10) said: "Jews are thieves. They'll take things right out of your hand."
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
evil jews walk around with their bags of jew gold, secret underwear, freemason illuminati initiation ceremonies, The Protocols of the Elders of Bush II was Behind the WTC attacks, and consort with the Shadow Pope to ensure atheist world takeover with Secret Muslin (sp) Obama with Realistic Battle Damage and Karate Chop Action. Lesbian Janet Reno presiding over the gay corruption of our innocent youths. Guest starring Balloon Boy as the CEO of Monsanto/Prinicipality of Sealand, inc. In theaters today.
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And nobody could say why Samprimary was simultaneously attacked by every single person in the world which would in turn lead to the sudden outbreak of the final world war.
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: evil jews walk around with their bags of jew gold, secret underwear, freemason illuminati initiation ceremonies, The Protocols of the Elders of Bush II was Behind the WTC attacks, and consort with the Shadow Pope to ensure atheist world takeover with Secret Muslin (sp) Obama with Realistic Battle Damage and Karate Chop Action. Lesbian Janet Reno presiding over the gay corruption of our innocent youths. Guest starring Balloon Boy as the CEO of Monsanto/Prinicipality of Sealand, inc. In theaters today.
What about the Illuminati and Reno's Jackbooted Storm Troopers (tm)?
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