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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » ESL? This difficult to get?

   
Author Topic: ESL? This difficult to get?
Blayne Bradley
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How difficult is it to get into a career for ESL? Would I need to learn the language of the target country (I've had a friend who was apparantly offered to teach it in Korea without knowing any Korean so this is a question mark afaic), does it needs its own certificate or could you apply the second you could pass a fluency test for the target country's language?

If I was to learn Japanese fluently for example how viable a career is it? Anyone know?

I ask because it seems like one of those trades I could feasibly get at the same time I'm doing my main career as a fall back plan, it may not pay well but it does seem alot offer food&board&plane ticket there.

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King of Men
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Well, it seems to me that the first step would be to learn English.
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Blayne Bradley
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I speak english good very.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
Well, it seems to me that the first step would be to learn English.

Blammo!

Now now KOM, Blayne can certainly teach them bad English.

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Fusiachi
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It varies from country to country.

Typically, ESL certification will earn you a little more pay. Some countries require it. ESL certifications are easy to obtain. In other locations, you may earn more 'under the table' than you would in your official capacity.

In Korea, you can get a pretty decent gig as an English teacher with just a Bachelor's degree (if English is your native language). Check out EPIK.

One way or the other, the answers to your questions are going to be very much location-specific.

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Geraine
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I know for Elementary education you really do need to know the other language. All of the ESL teachers I have ever met here in Las Vegas know Spanish fluently. It is hard to teach someone if you do not know how to communicate in a way they will understand.

You could start off seeing if you could get certified as a TOEFL proctor. The money is decent if you are able to get certified and attached to a testing center.

Being a test proctor was one of the easiest jobs I ever had. I was paid $14 an hour to sit at a desk and cruise the internet while people took a test in silence for a few hours. I did TSA testing, TOEFL, Tests so that pilots could carry firearms, flight tests, electrical tests, and about a dozen others. Sometimes the tests would be scheduled until 8 pm so I would work 12 hours and get 4 hours of overtime. All for sitting behind a computer, posting on Hatrack (I think I used a different name way back then but I can't remember the alias), or playing a game.

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Blayne Bradley
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Right now I'm thinking either Japan or China, I'm already am registered for a Minor in Mandarin (though didnt take any classes for it yet, were full) but maybe if its offered for Japanese may switch to that.

Japanese might end up being easier for me to learn with my speech impediment, I have a much easier time pronouncing hard consonants than tones.

Edit: GAH! ACRONYMS!

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Mucus
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Korea should be easy, I know at least three that have gone with only a bachelors in unrelated fields.

[ October 26, 2010, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Mucus ]

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Belle
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I am finishing up a master's degree in ESL with K-12 certification. My experience with others in my program who plan to teach overseas (not seeking public school certification) is that a bachelor's degree is required, and most prefer an ESL certificate or a master's degree and you can certainly make a lot more money with those things.

If you want to teach at the university level, a master's in ESL is a must. One friend of mine went to Korea for a year, and had a wonderful experience.

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TomDavidson
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Blayne, you have been living your entire life in French-speaking Canada and complain constantly about how your inability to become fluent in French has impacted your ability to find both friends and work.
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Belle
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I also didn't really answer the question - I don't know about certificates, but I would not classify a master's in ESL as easy to get. I am doing well without too much difficulty but I have an undergrad in English and have taken several classes in linguistics. That background has made things much easier for me.

Many of my fellows in the program are struggling, particularly with phonology and grammar.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm already am registered for a Minor in Mandarin (though didnt take any classes for it yet, were full) but maybe if its offered for Japanese may switch to that.

You will never, ever learn chinese.

http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm already am registered for a Minor in Mandarin (though didnt take any classes for it yet, were full) but maybe if its offered for Japanese may switch to that.

You will never, ever learn chinese.

http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

So how about you go screw yourself.

Samp being a troll, who woulda thunk.

Shock! Surprise! Oh snap there's actually no surprise there.

[ October 27, 2010, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Blayne Bradley ]

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Orincoro
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Blayne, I advise against you seeking a job in ESL teaching. I know a lot of successful teachers and I have known many more who didn't find it very appealing when they tried. I don't honestly think it's a fit for you. I'm saying this because I think it would be a big waste of your time, not mention money, trying to do the courses, move to another country, and find work. The career requires a level of personal resiliency, people skills, diplomacy, and facility with language that I don't think you have. I realize you assume I'll do nothing but bag on you, but I will persist in warning you that it is a very difficult career, and I really don't see that you have the type of personal resourcefulness necessary to make it work for you. That's fine- it's true of most people, but especially true for you.

People often take up the job, as I did, to travel the world and have new experiences and challenges in their lives. But most, really most, find it bitterly disappointing and leave after a very short time. I judge myself as much more fit for such a life than you are, and I am older than you are, and have more education, and had traveled much more extensively when I started, and yet it has been at times an exhausting challenge coping with this lifestyle. You should think *very* hard before you put yourself in a situation you may not be able to handle.

As far as I know you have never been able to support yourself doing any type of work before. ESL jobs, most especially salaried and company hosted positions, are best filled by people who can show a history of reliability, resilience, and confidence in themselves. These days, with the market as it is in this industry, relevant experience and dependability are absolutely key, and I don't think that your resume would be attractive to any potential employer in most markets, considering the level of demand. You may indeed land a job in some secondary city, particularly in Asia or Russia, but I am not confident that you would find yourself in a safe and equitable situation. People often run into a lot of trouble in their personal lives when they attempt to enter this kind of work abroad. They are overwhelmed with culture shock, by the demands of the work, and by homesickness, and often become terribly frustrated with their powerlessness at the hands of the people they work for, or the governments that host them during their stay. If you go into this expecting to be hand-held, to be guided smoothly through an easy adjustment process and brought along into the work without a million distractions and tiny difficulties to make things harder for you, you are in for a terribly rude shock.

[ October 27, 2010, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]

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manji
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm already am registered for a Minor in Mandarin (though didnt take any classes for it yet, were full) but maybe if its offered for Japanese may switch to that.

You will never, ever learn chinese.

http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

So how about you go screw yourself.

Samp being a troll, who woulda thunk.

Shock! Surprise! Oh snap there's actually no surprise there.

You haven't even take a course, by your own admission, so how would you know?
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Blayne Bradley
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I don't believe I've assumed any such things or what indication I've given to show that I've assumed such.

My intentions is more along the lines of thinking of this being more of a fall back position, to work on picking up helpful qualifications while the courses are fairly cheap at the sametime as my current courses.

By the time I would have the qualifications years would have gone by and my circumstances and situation would have certainly changed so much as to be laughable to make any sort of evaluation based on my current situation.

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by manji:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm already am registered for a Minor in Mandarin (though didnt take any classes for it yet, were full) but maybe if its offered for Japanese may switch to that.

You will never, ever learn chinese.

http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

So how about you go screw yourself.

Samp being a troll, who woulda thunk.

Shock! Surprise! Oh snap there's actually no surprise there.

You haven't even take a course, by your own admission, so how would you know?
So if I were to tell you that you would never ever under any circumstances get married or have children citing one study about "how hard marriage is" without at all knowing you or caring about your situation at all and only doing so because of the lulz you would still consider it perfectly A-OK?
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manji
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by manji:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm already am registered for a Minor in Mandarin (though didnt take any classes for it yet, were full) but maybe if its offered for Japanese may switch to that.

You will never, ever learn chinese.

http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

So how about you go screw yourself.

Samp being a troll, who woulda thunk.

Shock! Surprise! Oh snap there's actually no surprise there.

You haven't even take a course, by your own admission, so how would you know?
So if I were to tell you that you would never ever under any circumstances get married or have children citing one study about "how hard marriage is" without at all knowing you or caring about your situation at all and only doing so because of the lulz you would still consider it perfectly A-OK?
I don't see what marriage has to do with learning how to speak Mandarin or to read and write Chinese characters. The article was informative and matched my own experience learning the language.

I think it's hilarious that everyone always responds to you with negativity and put downs.

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Week-Dead Possum
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I don't believe I've assumed any such things or what indication I've given to show that I've assumed such.

My intentions is more along the lines of thinking of this being more of a fall back position, to work on picking up helpful qualifications while the courses are fairly cheap at the sametime as my current courses.

By the time I would have the qualifications years would have gone by and my circumstances and situation would have certainly changed so much as to be laughable to make any sort of evaluation based on my current situation.

Why? 5 years of posting here, and you havenīt mastered the language well enough to avoid creating eye blistering syntactic constructions. You want to teach this language? Wizardry is not required in this job, but competence is. Youīre not unique as a person totally unsuited to esl teaching, but you really are unsuited for it. Not just today, not just until youīre older and wiser. Itīs just not for everybody. I could see you writing comics or reviewing video games if you could improve your language skills a lot more, but I canīt see this working for you. Itīs a people business Blayne, and you donīt deal well with people.
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BlackBlade
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I'll be honest Blayne, I read Samp's link and just sadly nodded my head. At other times in my life it would have made me openly weep.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:

I don't see what marriage has to do

a.n.a.l.o.g.y.

quote:
Originally posted by Week-Dead Possum:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I don't believe I've assumed any such things or what indication I've given to show that I've assumed such.

My intentions is more along the lines of thinking of this being more of a fall back position, to work on picking up helpful qualifications while the courses are fairly cheap at the sametime as my current courses.

By the time I would have the qualifications years would have gone by and my circumstances and situation would have certainly changed so much as to be laughable to make any sort of evaluation based on my current situation.

Why? 5 years of posting here, and you havenīt mastered the language well enough to avoid creating eye blistering syntactic constructions. You want to teach this language? Wizardry is not required in this job, but competence is. Youīre not unique as a person totally unsuited to esl teaching, but you really are unsuited for it. Not just today, not just until youīre older and wiser. Itīs just not for everybody. I could see you writing comics or reviewing video games if you could improve your language skills a lot more, but I canīt see this working for you. Itīs a people business Blayne, and you donīt deal well with people.
Subjective, my interactions on this forum aren't what I would consider "fully" "me" but a portion, this is also a text only interaction, so really its the kind of talk I can easily ignore, I've talked with two hatracker's on the phone/skype once and they if I recall found the conversation interesting.

quote:

I'll be honest Blayne, I read Samp's link and just sadly nodded my head. At other times in my life it would have made me openly weep.

But did you actually read Sam's post. It was an attack, pure and simple.

Here let me post it for you again.

quote:

You will never, ever learn chinese.

Here let me post this for context.

http://xkcd.com/810/

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Baron Samedi
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I've talked with two hatracker's on the phone/skype once and they if I recall found the conversation interesting.

Oh, make sure you put that on your resume under "special skills."
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Nighthawk
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quote:
I don't see what marriage has to do with learning how to speak Mandarin or to read and write Chinese characters.
Learning Mandarin and Chinese is easier, cheaper and will give you less headaches in the end. [Razz]
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BlackBlade
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quote:
But did you actually read Sam's post. It was an attack, pure and simple.

It was discouraging sure. But speaking as somebody who is years down the road from you, I'd still say I've yet to "learn" Chinese. There's so much bleeding work to be done before I'll speak like a tween can, let alone an adult.
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Blayne Bradley
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(Post Removed by Janitor Blade. Blayne, don't swear at other posters.)

Lets try to keep our criticism of Blayne's decision to learn Mandarin polite please.

[ October 27, 2010, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: JanitorBlade ]

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Mucus
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On that note, you should listen to Orincoro and take a cue from his people skills.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm already am registered for a Minor in Mandarin (though didnt take any classes for it yet, were full) but maybe if its offered for Japanese may switch to that.

You will never, ever learn chinese.

http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

So how about you go screw yourself.

Samp being a troll, who woulda thunk.

Shock! Surprise! Oh snap there's actually no surprise there.

The truth is trolling now? Between the difficulty in the chinese language and your impediments with language and learning, you will never manage proficiency in the chinese language. Ever.

It is also a longshot that you will be able to work yourself to a position where you would do well in a JET-style english training program. I don't think you have the teaching and interpersonal acumen at all yet to not be overwhelmed by the duties, and your written proposals would likely be rejected outright.

Now, let's see if you can manage this appropriate criticism without being a child.

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Blayne Bradley
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You've never had any interest at all in "helping" me, you participate in my threads because you get a high trying to feel superior, I will never under any circumstances listen to anything you say because you are an asshole and will never raise yourself above that level.

Maybe you can manage one of these days to not be an asshole but you'ld first have to understand the meaning behind "constructive".

So go **** yourself and stay out of my threads.

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Samprimary
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That would be an emphatic 'no, I can't manage this criticism without being a child,' I guess.

Anyway, let's look at this:

quote:
Maybe you can manage one of these days to not be an asshole
Can you, perhaps, see something ironic in this statement?
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Nighthawk
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clak-clak-clak-clak-clak-clak...
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Samprimary
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Oh no, if only I had been conditioned better to walk on eggshells!
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Oh no, if only I had been conditioned better to walk on eggshells!

quote:

Lets try to keep our criticism of Blayne's decision to learn Mandarin polite please.

JanitorBlade please delete every single one of Samps posts from this thread.
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0Megabyte
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Blayne? Why do you think you could do this, exactly?

I, personally, came to the conclusion that ESL teaching is not for me. I'm not qualified enough to do it any justice.

I decided this because my foreign language skills are poor at best. Yes, with extensive work ( consistent extensive work) coupled with living in the country in question and using the language every day, I could probably become fairly fluent. But it would take me years to become that good.

And it's not worth enough to me to become that good. My time, in my opinion, is better spent with other pursuits, both more enjoyable and more productive.

What makes you think this is a good fit for you? What part of you exists that Blackblade and Orincoro and Samprimary don't see, that means you'd be good at this particular thing?

And if you are just going to have a temper tantrum when people older and presumably wiser tell you you may not be suited to a specific job, what makes you think you can handle the stress of this particular people-oriented job?

Here's a quick quiz:

You are working at a fast food restaurant. A couple comes in, and you soon notice that the man is visibly drunk. They ask for a specific special (or, say, the breakfast menu) and you no longer serve it. When you say no, the man gets angry.

If you act the wrong way, there is the possibility he could become violent.

What do you do?

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Baron Samedi
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quote:
Originally posted by 0Megabyte:
Here's a quick quiz:

You are working at a fast food restaurant. A couple comes in, and you soon notice that the man is visibly drunk. They ask for a specific special (or, say, the breakfast menu) and you no longer serve it. When you say no, the man gets angry.

If you act the wrong way, there is the possibility he could become violent.

What do you do?

Sounds like someone's working on the script for Speed 3. [Wink]
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0Megabyte
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Ha! No. I wish. Seriously, though, things like that have happened to me. (I made it more generic than the precise experience I had in mind, but still.)
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BlackBlade
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This thread has become a mess, and I see no reason why it should continue in this manner. I don't feel I have any choice but to lock it for now.
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