quote:Rakeesh, what are your real motives? Notice that I am asking you, not merely imputing things to a strawman.
I have two motives I can think of offhand. The first, most obvious one is that your ideas and the way you express them are frequently pretty objectionable and even obnoxious to me, so I tend to rebut them, particularly when it's simple to do so as it was this time. The second motive, less powerful (by a substantial amount) is that I'm aware that there are people who buy into the rhetoric you were using about 'bravery' and I wanted to dispel it.
As for strawmen, I used none. You were, I'll put it charitably, conveying an impression that doesn't reflect the reality. You put yourself forward as a brave, almost heroic defender of 'innocent' readers out there, Ron. You used the words 'dare' and 'never been afraid' to describe your behavior here on Hatrack.
As I said before, it takes no daring and there isn't any fear involved in 'standing up' to your detractors on this issue, especially for you. You're obviously not afraid of us-why would you be? You don't value our good opinion (nor should you), and we cannot in even the slightest way punish you for your disagreement or insult (of which there've been a >0 number, your comments about the insults of others notwithstanding. 'Twit' being an example from this very thread, Mr. Defender of the Innocent.)
So given that it obviously takes no daring and no overcoming of fear to state your ideas in this medium - and this cannot be argued, Ron, it simply can't - who were you trying to impress when you very clearly (again, not arguable, your language made a very clear case) implied otherwise? The only way I was attacking a strawman is if you had some other motive than vanity by making yourself appear brave and daring, and I'd be very interested to hear what it might be.
I await the explanation with pleasure. I suspect I'll be waiting quite awhile.
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Ron, do you want to rephrase your strawman, or do you want me to actually waste your time answering it?
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Yeah that actually answers nothing about my questions. Though I was amused to see more of your weird 'them jews got it all wrong about the sabbath, can't you seeeeeeeeeeeeee' stuff
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Parkour, I am guessing there are close to 10,000 registered members of this forum. There are only a handful of yapping terriers nipping at my heels, always the same ones, the same select few, who can't stand having their ideological hegemony over this forum challenged.
So you want to assume that ten thousand registered users means that there have to be thousands of lurkers being ministered to by you? If there were even a handful of people who you "stand up for" why is it that still nobody ends up standing up for you? And how is it productive in fighting the "secularists" to embarrass yourself like this every time? I know you really have no idea how you come off, but that you also invent an audience for yourself is. More than a bit sad.
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Okay, honestly, I never intended this thread to become a dogpile on Ron.
I'm definitely not taking back anything I think on the matter, but maybe we should let it go. It seems as though the actual subject of this thread is dead, anyway.
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Sam, I keep the same Sabbath that the Jews do. Why would I say they were wrong about it? The Fourth Commandment (explicitly stating that the seventh day of the week is the Sabbath) applies to Christians as well as to Jews (and all the human race), as do all the other commandments, but the fourth especially since it is predicated on the Sabbath that God created at the end of Creation Week (Compare Gen. 2:2,3; Ex. 20:8-11).
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No please can we not do this thing where you talk endlessly about the sabbath or quote the bible or whatever. That was kind of my point is that referencing a page full of that babble isn't an answer to my question and there's no way I'm going to read all that to try to figure out what you are trying to mean by it all, try again?
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Well, Sam, that would appear to be a rather large part of your problem, if you do not read what I actually say, but then try to argue against me anyway. No wonder you misrepresented me about something so obvious and basic as my view of the Sabbath. By now, virtually everyone here knows that I am a Seventh-day Adventist. We SDAs are Christians who believe the Sabbath was never changed from Creation Week on, and still remains the seventh day of the week. In this we agree with Jews. (The only difference is that some Jews think the Sabbath was only for them, neglecting the fact that it was created at the end of Creation Week, when Adam and Eve were the whole human race, and Jews would not come on the scene for thousands of years.)
And note: YOU were the one who brought up the Sabbath.
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Sorry 0Megabyte. But obviously I have a right to defend myself when the rabid currs do try to pile on. But I am not afraid of them. I believe I have demonstrated that I can handle everything they can dish out, and send their dogpile flying. That is one reason they are so obssessed with me.
In a way, I am actually grateful for the practice they are giving me, so that I will be better prepared to deal with their kind on a larger stage, as may well happen in the future.
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quote:I believe I have demonstrated that I can handle everything they can dish out...
Anyone who thinks Ron has satisfactorily responded to my observations and criticisms in this thread, please post to say so.
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Ron, account me as one of those whom your opinion does not reflect, so don't come to my defense.
Refuting evolution in favor of one groups interpretation of the Bible does not make it true. While you point out that the science of today is different than the science of 100 years ago, you act as if that were a bad thing. Its called learning.
I note that biblical interpretations we get from our scholars today are also different. Many of the predictions, prophesies, and ideas that Christian experts have interpreted from the Bible have proven to be wrong in the past. As a 7th Day Adventist, you should be familiar with several of them.
From defending racism, slavery, rape, and torture the faithful have misinterpreted the Bible often.
That is, of course, if you believe in the Bible.
You say we must because hundreds of people have heard the word of God and reported it--in the Bible.
Hundreds of others have heard the word of God and reported it in other religious texts. Each one, from the Torah to the Koran to the Analects have internal proofs that they are the one and only truth.
Do you know when science left the folds of the church? When people of different beliefs found no way to tell who was correct and who was wrong. They each proved their points using their own Bibles or holy books, and each held those written facts sacred and each side was unable to prove anything--so they started killing each other. Kill them all and let God sort it out seemed to be the final experiment in discovering the truth.
Finally people took up a scientific method to find truth, and its worked pretty well so far.
Science works. If anyone tells you differently, they are trying to sell you something. In this case its membership in their religion.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Well, Sam, that would appear to be a rather large part of your problem, if you do not read what I actually say, but then try to argue against me anyway. No wonder you misrepresented me about something so obvious and basic as my view of the Sabbath. By now, virtually everyone here knows that I am a Seventh-day Adventist. We SDAs are Christians who believe the Sabbath was never changed from Creation Week on, and still remains the seventh day of the week. In this we agree with Jews. (The only difference is that some Jews think the Sabbath was only for them, neglecting the fact that it was created at the end of Creation Week, when Adam and Eve were the whole human race, and Jews would not come on the scene for thousands of years.)
And note: YOU were the one who brought up the Sabbath.
Yeah, because I pulled up that thread and saw a lot of yammering about that stuff, and felt that there was no indication whatsoever that your link answered my question.
So please forget the sabbath. The point is that I don't care about the sabbath or that thread at all. Please just answer my question instead.
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To be fair, Ron, you threw the first insults, at least that's true in this thread. Don't act like you're just defending yourself, you brought it on yourself.
I'm just tired of my thread being used as a dog-pile, whether deserved or not. It was never supposed to be about you in the first place.
Incidentally, you haven't responded much at all to my own points, unless you included me in the all-encompassing "you're all just wrong" type stuff.
However, this whole thing is pointless anyway. Just more negativity on both sides, and you'll walk away imagining you did some noble thing baiting people into insulting you on an internet forum, and they'll walk away knowing whatever it is they know. Nobody is improved by this, and the potentially interesting discussion is pretty much brain-dead at this point, replaced by personal insults and criticism.
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Why should I, Sam? You already have said you won't read it anyway. Besides your question is rather snidely stated, to the point of being untrue to start with.
I referenced you to a summary I gave in two other forums of the basic outline of history given in the prophecies of Daniel, which included discussion and debate and my further scholarly defense (such as the evidence refuting the cavil that Daniel was written later than it claims to be, and such as pointing out that even if Daniel were written at the later date, it still would not explain away the continued accuracy of the prophecies as they apply to the centuries long after that claimed later date). I also showed that my methods of interpretation are objective and sound.
My apologies if that last sentence was too long for you to comprehend. Let me recommend that you be sure to include in your diet three or four teaspoons daily of coconut oil, so your brain cells will be better nourished. Also try to imbibe beet juice as often as you can, since that has been shown to improve circulation to the brain.
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0Megabyte, you are not reading my posts honestly. You can take that as an insult if you want to, but it is a deserved rebuke. Instead of imputing mistaken misjudgments of what I say, why don't you actually come to grips with the substance of what I have said?
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Why should I, Sam? You already have said you won't read it anyway.
Yes, that is actually an excellent reason! Another reason is because it's just you drifting waaay off from any subject we could possibly see any point in sticking on!
quote:My apologies if that last sentence was too long for you to comprehend. Let me recommend that you be sure to include in your diet three or four teaspoons daily of coconut oil, so your brain cells will be better nourished. Also try to imbibe beet juice as often as you can, since that has been shown to improve circulation to the brain.
You know, you have an odd morality if you consider yourself so just and you represent it with .. well, feeling tempted to get snide so easily. Is snideness a virtue for seventh-day adventists? Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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I'm not going into this, Ron. It's not like you've been responding to my posts on the actual subject of interest.
This is silly. It's just you and them insulting each other now, and there's no reason for it to continue. Be an adult and just walk away. Be Christlike and, with humility in your heart, ask God to forgive those who have attacked you, and instead of standing around waiting for the crucifixion, do what Christ couldn't and turn off the computer.
To the others: Stop feeding this. Ignore him, at least in this thread, as I urge him to ignore you. There's nothing worthwhile here, and nothing will change.
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Now, having said that, Ron, feel free to don the cloak of virtue and lecture others some more on flinging insults, if you please?
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