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Author Topic: Hatrack Creative Writing Thread
Blayne Bradley
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Essentially as proposed by 0Megabyte I challenged myself to write a 10 page short story by friday and as of this writing it is 6:00~ pm or so and it's almost "done" quotation marks as the story I am writing, which I got inspiration to write this idea early in the week from a dream is actually something I might be onto and will vastly exceed ten pages.

But once I'm done this chapter which will be soon, probably within 15 minutes will email it to anyone whose interested for feedback.

As by the Hatrack Writing and Discussion Forum guidelines I'll only post 13 lines in case people think I should maybe try publishing it, if it is acceptable I'll submit it to IGMS.

Thirteen Lines

Tomorrow After The War Ends

quote:

I climbed out of the hole and grabbed a fresh torch and the flint that Zora had left behind, geez, is that girl air headed or what? I would have to scold her later for careless leaving important things like torches in the wheel box.

I hopped back down and lit the torch, illuminating the ground and I could see the light reflecting off of something just underneath the dirt.

I resumed digging, carefully removing the dirt and rocks away from it clearing out several feet of it.

I uncovered what I hoped was most of it but it seemed like no matter how much I dug, there was always more to dig out...

Eventually I think I managed to uncover some symbols...

JMSDF KIYONAMI

I had no idea what it could even mean, but I nevertheless shock my head in amazement, no one knew how the world came into being, but surviving was so important that no had really put much thought into our past or discussed much about the humans who it is supposed came before us.

Premise: It is the future and the earth has been for all intents and purposes devasted by an unknown war thousands of years ago, however in the current age a new race of lizard-like beings have evolved and are now competing with the currently degenerated humans for resources.

Zilik, a digger from a humble village uncaring about the past except for whatever baubles it left behind for them has big dreams and big aspirations but it seems like he will never get a chance to live them out until digging upon a crashed warship from the past and a chance meeting with a lone surviving esper cryogenetically frozen on a war-turned refugee ship thrusts him into an adventure he could never have imagined with the fate of humanity and his adolescent race held within his scaled hands.

I'll email the whole thing that I got done so far, roughly 12 pages to anyone whose interested and post feedback here.

I'll post this on the Other Side since my observation it looks like different people post there than who hang out here.

Edit: Edited to add the story's premise to provide context to the fragment.

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Unmaker
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Quick suggestion: If you are going to have a first-person narrative from the mind of a lizard-like being millions of years hence, you should probably go with slightly more formal diction (eliminating expressions like "geez" and "air-headed").

You've got three or four run-on sentences in there, and the sentence structure is a little repetitive (though I suppose that might be intentional).

Interesting premise (though it contains some worn motifs). I can see its being shaped into a nice YA novel.

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Blayne Bradley
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I'ld like to hand wave modern diction as translation convention these are equivalents not actual English.

Now that I look back at it I do notice alot of "I's" but I'm mimicking the narrative style of light novels so it might be intentional, I would have to go back and reread Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya to check.

It isn't millions of years though, only a few thousand, this 'new' race isn't actually new, my dream had two parts to it, some lizard like people fighting humans as hunter gatherer and iron age cultures would and the second part is somehow uniformed Humans and Lizard people (Who I'm naming Lacentians) fighting side by side in main battle tanks genetically engineered to make use of resource rich arid and desert areas Humans don't like to live in.

Then some war happened Humans were knocked back, Earth is cut off from its space colonies due to debris and the Lizards while sliding back to the stone age were faster to recover and thus competing the original humans into extinction.

Dreams are awesome, drugs can't make up stuff like this.


Drawing inspiration from Homeward Bound (by Harry Turtledove), Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, a anime movie whose name I can't recall but had some similar themes and plot devices.

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Blayne Bradley
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Hmm, apparently what I do to solve run on sentences doesn't actually solve it, I like doing "comma splices" which turns out is incorrect.
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Blayne Bradley
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Finished the first chapter, will be needing volunteers to read it and give me feedback, anyone?
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Synesthesia
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Sweet. Really get into that lizard's brain. Sounds cool.
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Blayne Bradley
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Syn would you be interested in reading it?
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Scott R
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Why not join the Writer's Forum, BB? You might get more takers over there.
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Synesthesia
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Sure. I shall read it. But my attention span is like drunk butterflies, so be warned.
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Blayne Bradley
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I am on the Writer's forum, but you know as they say, spread your net far and wide, alot of positive feed back from the 13 lines but not specifically anyone willing to giv it a read, yet, confirming some things first.
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0Megabyte
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I was planning on posting this thread myself, but you beat me to it!

Unfortunately, my short story isn't quite done. I've been working more on a screenplay, and that was a little more urgent. I'll probably complete the short story by tomorrow sometime. (Note, I had said Friday or Saturday in my post, so hopefully I'll still technically be sticking with the timespan I gave.)

Once again, the thing I suggested was a 5-10 page short story. Limits, too, are a part of writing, and it's good to follow the criteria. However, more important is actually writing!

And in that, at least, I congratulate you on taking me up on my offer.

Scott R.: The reason Blayne posted this thread was because of me. I didn't specifically ask for this thread, but if he hadn't done it, I would have, if not tonight then tomorrow.

Maybe I will jump over to the Writer's forum, but this is more a public exhibition started by a drunken bet on my part.

P.S.: Wow. I had specified the thing as "times new roman, 12 point font, double-spaced, 5-10 pages." Blayne's is much more than that. I'll warn everyone that mine will be shorter!

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Teshi
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I admire Blayne's ability to write something when he sets his mind to it. I have not written anything since I started working.
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Flying Fish
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Here's something I said 8 December 2009, in the need consultant for writing a novel thread, which later got locked:


--begin quote--
Blayne, my two cent's worth:

Cent one:
Have you considered writing a story first, like a ten page story, or a 3000 word story? Not that you have to write stories before you write a novel, but there are advantages to that approach.

Cent two:
I get the impression from your posts that you might be the type of person to really get wrapped up in research, to the point of getting distracted from the writing. Research is great, and a wealth of detail is nice, but for some people it becomes the focus. I have a friend who has to build models, and stage mock battles, and write biographies, and fill sketchbooks.... Months and months of background, none of which gets into the stories, which often don't get written at all.... Just a note of caution.

--end quote--

I know there's probably a way to quote from one thread to another, but I've had a pretty super stressful day so far (and I've only been up four hours) , and don't feel like looking it up.

I now add another two cent's worth, for BB and anyone working on a story right now.

cent one:
Finish this story. Stay with it until you come to the end. Put off everything else, but FINISH.

cent two:
Try this fun little exercise and see if it leads to an A-Ha! moment.

Figure the number of years you've been on Hatrack = A

See how many posts you've made = B

Figure an average words per post of 200 (I know, that's probably too big for terse snarkmeisters, but way too small for those who prefer the lecture in a bottle style)

Figure the basic word count of a speculative fiction novel at 80,000 words (most publishers don't want a 40,000 word or 100,000 word novel from an unknown writer. Some specify 80K as being the only type of submission they want from an unknown).

200B/80,000 equals how may novels worth of words you've posted on Hatrack. Divide that answer by A and that equals how many novels per year on average you converted from fiction writing to posting here.

If you also participate in facebook, farmville, world of warcraft, sakeriver, etc. the equation is similar, but you start to need greek letters and a calculator and graph paper and such...

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Hmm, apparently what I do to solve run on sentences doesn't actually solve it, I like doing "comma splices" which turns out is incorrect.
Yes, that would be an example. [Smile]
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Blayne Bradley
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Story has now been proof read of hopefully all of thee typos and some odd grammar, though not sure I can do much with the run on sentences as that's just years of bad practice that I never knew I had.
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TomDavidson
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In the short term, try just putting in a semicolon every time you'd normally use a comma. It still won't be completely correct -- but given how often you use comma splices, it might help. [Smile]
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Scott R
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Otherwise, try reading each sentence out loud, while breathing normally. You should be able to quickly get a feel for how bad run-on sentences sound.
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Blayne Bradley
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You haven't had a phone conversation with me than [Wink]
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BlackBlade
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I'm pretty bad about long setences that could easily be broken down into shorter ones. I had to mentally focus not to do it again with this post.
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Kwea
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Good for you Blayne, it's great that you finished a story.

A lot of the people who said "just write" meant it, you know. It wasn't a backhanded way of getting to you.

It is the #1 piece of advice given to all new writers. [Smile]

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Blayne Bradley
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Not finished per se, just the first chapter.

I am utterly against the idea of a story that is "just" a short story, if it has potential to be an epic 12 book series why not?

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advice for robots
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I'll take a look at it for you, Blayne.

mechanicalman at gmail.

I assume you want a critique on the story itself rather than a sentence-level proofread at this point?

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Blayne Bradley
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Story critique should be fine.
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jebus202
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I'm pretty bad about long setences that could easily be broken down into shorter ones. I had to mentally focus not to do it again with this post.

Your post creates an infinite loop.
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Blayne Bradley
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Hmm, do readers really not like dream fake openings?

i.e. Where you have say an exiting opening scene but then only realize its a dream? Even if it serves a purpose for later on?

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kwsni
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The opening scene sets the tone and direction for the whole rest of the story. Check out OSC's How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy for a great deconstruction of the first page or so of Octavia Butler's Wild Seed (also a great book). If you invest so much time at the beginning of a story to something that doesn't really matter, people are going to be confused.
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T:man
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I could read it Blayne, I wouldn't really go through and proofread, but I could tell you my impression of the story-and stuffs.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Hmm, do readers really not like dream fake openings?
Personally, I do not like them. In fact, I hate them.
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ambyr
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If the dream sequence is a paragraph or less, and its relevance to the plot is explained within the next page (e.g., I don't know, some evil sorcerer has cursed the main character with nightmares, or this prophetic dream is going to push the character onto a quest), I'll deal. Or if dreaming is the central theme in some way--e.g., Valente's Palimpsest, more than half of which takes place in "dreams."

If I read through five intriguing pages only to hit "it was only a dream" and have the character go off and do something else, the book is going to hit the floor fast.

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Geraine
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I'd love to read it Blayne if you don't mind.

geraine at gmail.com

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Scott R
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I don't like fake dreams.

I don't mind if they're clearly labeled as dreams.

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Blayne Bradley
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Emailed, Megabyte! Stop destroying mainframe and provide feedback!
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I don't like fake dreams.

I don't mind if they're clearly labeled as dreams.

I agree.
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Orincoro
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"200B/80,000 equals how may novels worth of words you've posted on Hatrack. Divide that answer by A and that equals how many novels per year on average you converted from fiction writing to posting here."

Oh GOD I've written something like 20 novels. Especially if you consider that most of my posts are long.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I don't like fake dreams.

I don't mind if they're clearly labeled as dreams.

I agree.
This is how I feel about dreams as well.
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Blayne Bradley
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Well two lines in addition could fix it, one prefacing it and one at the end of it to better elaborate it, but I like the meta humor value of causing my readers to go [ [Mad] [Hat] *continues reading* ]

*Sulks*

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kwsni
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If you want your readers to never give you another chance, go right ahead. If you want them to finish the story they've started, and maybe try another, making them mad, frustrated, or confused is maybe not a good idea.
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Blayne Bradley
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I like the idea of the writer-audience relationship as a kind competition in moulding expectations with the creator both delivering what the audience wants while at the same time teasing the hell out of them and usually screwing with their minds.

With the audience having the job to stay one step ahead of the writer. "Well played sir! But I was expecting that twist!" Like a meta game of cat and mouse.

Of course no one can possibly match up to KyoAni in this department, two words "Endless Eight" followed by "Vanishment".

Of course for me the dream sequence is meant as foreshadowing and not a big deal regardless of tongue in cheek sulking to make the reader more aware it's a dream.

But to me, I dislike books that give 'too much' information, as it reduces tension.

For example if you know its a dream, then you also know that none of the characters will die right? The excitement of having an intense fight scene is severely reduced if the results don't matter which is why I think arguably telling the audience it's a dream or fake reality, or simulation etc is arguable a bad direction as well if the goal is to keep the audience interested in the action.

Doesn't X-Men do similar all the time though? A 'fake' opening that turns into a simulation?

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Dan_Frank
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Using a fake scene to create tension is an easy, cheap, trick. The tension is just as fake as the scene.

Real tension occurs when something is at stake. And it remains tense, even upon re-reading.

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kwsni
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Why don't you modify the scene so it's not a dream? So your readers are invested in the outcome? Maybe it will make your story better.
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Blayne Bradley
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Because the dream is a reflection of the character's inner most desires and do not exist in reality "yet", and are meant to show clearly what motivates him.

The city that doesn't exist that he yearns to found and defend. (his people are migratory and tribal with an iron age level of technology but lack cities or anything above a village in size)

The worthy enemy that he desires to fight.
(They have enemies and an entire coming of age ceremony-honor thing called "The Expedition" where his village sends several new adults to fight humans but Zilik's application is constantly denied so he can never get his battle or a rank despite being from a family of warriors)

The dream serves to show what he wants and then contrasts it in the readers mind with the actual reality, to make his desperation seem more real.

If the reader gets 'pissed' at the good battle scene being a dream how do you think Zilik feels? It serves to help with characterization.

Anime does this all the time as well, such as the very first episode of Gurren-Lagann with its space opera space battle opening followed by well, Simon being a poor digger (which is what inspired how I'm opening my story).

Would you like to read it?

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kwsni
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I'll read it. I'm between writing projects right now, and a little editing will do me good.
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advice for robots
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:

If the reader gets 'pissed' at the good battle scene being a dream how do you think Zilik feels? It serves to help with characterization.


There's a basic law in usability testing that says if a user can't figure out how to use a product correctly, it's the product designer's fault, not the user's. You have to abide by that law if you're going to make products that people can and want to use.

Same with writing a novel. If your reader doesn't understand what you're talking about or gets fed up with you toying with them, it's your fault, not theirs. They will not care that you're trying to make some kind of point with the problematic passage; they'll simply give up on the book.

In fiction writing (especially on the first draft, and especially when you're a beginning author) it's no use defending why you wrote it that way. If people can't get past a certain passage, all the explaining in the world won't make it any better. I guess I've had to work that reaction out of myself in my own job. If my client gets hung up on some phrase or piece of info I put in an article, for example, then chances are I need to rethink it. I maybe could talk the client into leaving it how it is, but later on, if a reader gets hung up on the same thing, they won't have my explanation handy as to why I wrote it like I did.

How you respond to critiques has a big impact on how well you're able to improve a piece of writing. [Smile]

In your chapter specifically, ticking off your reader with an unannounced dream won't help them emphasize with Zilik. Your reader's anger will only serve to make them abandon reading, because it's directed at you, the author, rather than at Zilik's enemies.

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advice for robots
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I've got a question of my own for the Hatrack collective brain. I'm working on concepting a sci-fi novel and I'm wondering: how would simple celestial mechanics affect a solar system-wide government?

More specifically, if you had three powerful population centers--Earth/Luna, Mars, and Jupiter--where would you locate the government seat? My thoughts are on how when Earth and Jupiter are on one side of the sun and Mars is on the opposite side, Earth is much closer to Jupiter than Mars is. And vice-versa--when Mars and Jupiter are on the same side and Earth is on the other side.

What are the ways this might affect the balance of power, given that these three centers of power are constantly striving for ascendancy? Could different factions plan for these alignments and use them to their advantage--either sending war fleets, information, or terrorist attacks? Would the central government suffer from being placed on any of these three systems? Is there a more effective location for the government seat?

I realize this is a pretty simplistically-described concept, but I'm just looking for thoughts. Thanks! [Smile]

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Blayne Bradley
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Earth hands down just from population size, influence, military and tradition as the moon, Mars and Jupiter are likely 'colonies' or even if co-equal there's no way Earth would accept not being the capital-apparant.

Though what you'ld likely end up with is mars and jupiter fairly autonomous with the capital location not mattering that much.

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mr_porteiro_head
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Depending on how expensive fuel is, Luna might advantageous, as it's not as deep into the Terran system's gravity well as the surface of Earth is, but still relatively close to the presumed center of culture and power. Especially if there was worry about Earth being given too much of an additional advantage by having the government there.
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advice for robots
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OK, so the government is based on Earth or Luna. Say that there were factions in the other locations looking for a way to weaken that government. Would the fact that Earth is sometimes on the other side of the sun from Mars and Jupiter be any advantage to such a faction?
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mr_porteiro_head
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Assuming that the most powerful earth-control telescopes were on or near Earth of Luna, Mars or Jupiter might be able to hide some actions, like fleet deployments or the effects of some large-scale experiments, by only doing them when the earth was behind the sun.
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kwsni
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I did a quick read-through to catch a little story and character, and I'm impressed, Blayne. I think you can tighten it up A LOT, but I'll be sending you an email to that effect.
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Blayne Bradley
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There is no stealth in space, Jupitor or Mars governments/militaries would be as good at hiding deployments as an Elephant pretending to be a mouse in a tulips garden
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