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Author Topic: Why do these folks LIKE this article?
Synesthesia
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tracy-mcmillan/why-youre-not-married_b_822088.html

Especially since she's being so harsh and not taking into consideration reason number 7 which in my case is I'm shy, social phobic, slightly delayed, I possibly have asperger's syndrome and I don't want to get married because I'm deathly afraid of weddings.
Also she's way too rude and cruel and I don't fit anything on that list at all.

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rivka
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Syn, who cares? It's written by a woman who is three-times divorced, and currently single.

She's bitter, and she sure sounds like she's describing herself.

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Synesthesia
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Yeah, I should really ignore this because I have STUPID SHINGLES and stuff like this makes me itchier and burnier.

But it's so ANNOYING and so many of these folks agree ><

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Jeorge
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well said, rivka. the arrogance of thinking her 3 relationships make her a love guru is enough to take everything with a lot of salt...

And Syn, I sympathize...I had shingles last winter. NOT fun. :-/

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jebus202
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quote:
Female anger terrifies men. I know it seems unfair that you have to work around a man's fear and insecurity in order to get married -- but actually, it's perfect, since working around a man's fear and insecurity is big part of what you'll be doing as a wife.
And I thought the biggest part of what a wife does was spending their husband's money and making sandwiches.
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Samprimary
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We as a couple read that article independently and both described this 'instant, searing pain' as 'our eyes horrifically tried to roll straight out of our skulls' whereupon we both went LOL HUFFINGTON POST and then tried to link it to each other.
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Synesthesia
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Heheheh. You're eyes trying to roll out of your skulls.

I totally hate that she has that silly line about a guy getting around on a skateboard because the guy I fancy that I've had tea with once goes around on a skateboard.
He seems like a nice fellow. I'm scared to ask him out again though. But I've had a crush on him since I saw him last year.

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0Megabyte
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Why are you scared to ask him out?

I just asked a girl to see a movie with me the other day. She said she didn't feel like going out. Meh. Her loss.

The thing to remember is that rejection isn't going to change anything. It doesn't feel good, but you have to at least ask. If you don't, then it's the same result as if you WERE rejected, anyway! You really don't have a lot to lose.

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Synesthesia
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I did ask him for tea. I'm proud of that.
Dude's always stopping to talk and smile in my general direction in a warm way that lights up the whole entire supermarket that is Whole Paychec.

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Rakeesh
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I would literally have not read the rest of that article if not for y'all saying, "This is some unintentionally funny stuff!"

Because seriously, what she is really saying is, "I know why you're not married (to someone you will soon be divorced to, and who has a >33% chance of being a douchebag by my own admittedly very suspect system of measure)."

Coming up next in the advice in the advice column! "I know why you're going to hell by the crazy guy who drives around town in the old beat up van with barely-legible Biblical verses scrawled in lopsided lines all over town and poor personal hygiene."

There are people you just don't take advice from, Synethesia. She's one of `em. Now it may very well happen that she actually has some good advice...but that's just because anyone can give some good advice. It's easy to give vaguely applicable general-use good advice, after all.

--------

quote:
I just asked a girl to see a movie with me the other day. She said she didn't feel like going out. Meh. Her loss.
This, incidentally, seems like a vaguely bad attitude to take to me. You don't know why she didn't feel like going out, after all. Maybe she just didn't feel like going out with you-a human being is allowed that, after all. It ain't the end of the world.

The thing is to be willing to take a swing and actually tolerate rejection without telling one's self a comforting story afterwards where the one who rejected is actually worse off, because to me that smacks of sour grapes. So she didn't want to go see a movie with you. Well, the sun (or the moon, or the stars) are still shining! That movie will still be good (or bad) without her. Food will taste good, water will still be refreshing. As they say over in the HP Methods of Rationality thread, learn how to lose. It's OK-it's not necessary to make the one rejecting into a schmuck, even if it's mild.

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Raymond Arnold
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I must say, this was not a thread I expected HP: MoR to get referenced in.
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Rakeesh
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Heh, it did seem quite odd in retrospect, didn't it? But still appropriate, I think. I also thought of HBO's Rome, the scene between Marc Antony and Vorenus on their boat pulling away from their naval defeat, where Antony talks about it not being the end of the world even though he'd lost.

Of course it was in that case, but the example didn't really work here.

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0Megabyte
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
This, incidentally, seems like a vaguely bad attitude to take to me. You don't know why she didn't feel like going out, after all. Maybe she just didn't feel like going out with you-a human being is allowed that, after all. It ain't the end of the world.

Perhaps you aren't taking what I said the right way. It's her loss because it was a good movie, not because I'm oh-so-special.

And regardless, I never implied there was anything really wrong with it. And of course it might be she didn't want to go with me! I'd not be surprised if that was the case. It seems to me that you are reading some random stereotype into what I said, which I did not intend.

I know this girl. We've gone on dates before, though not with any regularity. She's a little strange, and I'm starting to realize she's a bit of a shut in.

I'm not bitter about it, and it doesn't bother me. I'm really not sure why you're implying all that other stuff.

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Rakeesh
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Sure thing, ZeroM. That's the Internet text medium for communication. And to be clear, I didn't mean to say that you specifically thought all of that other stuff about this particularly woman in question. (I try, when I'm talking like that, to actually head a post with a OMegabyte,

...

but in this case I forgot)

The only mild disagreement I have with this last post is that there is a possible implied 'something negative' (in her) in the 'her loss', but not necessarily and with your explanation there isn't. I was really more speaking to one common theme - I've seen it much more among men, since that's my home culture, after all - that the 'ideal' attitude to have re: confidence and rejection is something like this:

Go out, socialize!
Find woman attractive (based on variety of criteria-depending on the standards of the dude in question, this may or may not be 'hawt or nawt')
Attempt to chat her up! (methods drastically vary)
Attempt successful! (Great, follow up)
Attempt unsuccessful:(! (Well, that's her loss-you're a great guy, so forget her!)

My criticism of the last step is that, the way it's expressed many times seems like sour grapes. That's all.

[ February 28, 2011, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: Rakeesh ]

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AchillesHeel
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With all the specific criteria dating websites you think there would be one for agoraphobe's and the anti-social. J-Date, Blackpeoplemeet and Plentyoffish are all narrowing down on religion and race but what about the most importanct divider of all? sociophobia is real!
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Samprimary
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Here's another article that came out recently about sexuality and marriage which requires a bit of a slapping: Slate's "Sex is Cheap" article.

http://www.slate.com/id/2286240/pagenum/all/

Excellent counterpoint provided by Violet Blue of Open Source Sex, whose blog I cannot link directly because it is sex positive and has boobies on it etc etc:

quote:
Yesterday a lady friend tweeted that she’d just read this Slate article, and while she normally loves Slate the article really offended her but she couldn’t quite put her finger on why. I responded with an answer, and then… I started getting emails, messages and comments from women I didn’t know, all about the same article. One man wrote, “I thought I would send it along in hopes you could help me figure out exactly why it pisses me off so much.”

The article is Sex is cheap: Why young men have the upper hand in bed, even when they’re failing in life by Mark Regnerus (Slate Magazine).

I’ll tell you why you’ve got that nagging anger somewhere in the pit of your stomach. But it will only make you angrier.

In short, Regnerus is policing gender roles by way of slut shaming. The article is based on the belief that a woman’s true value is in the goal of marriage, by behaving like “the marrying kind” of girl – from the 1950s. (All references to female sexual relationships are defined as “pre-marital” as in, if you are not married then surely you are going to be and are just waiting, absent reality of non-marital or post-marital states of being.) It’s a pretty narrow definition by which to view female sexuality and female sexual power, and so outdated that it is, in fact, inaccurate.

quote:
Sex Is Cheap asks the question, why is sex cheap? Its answer is that it is because women make sex cheap by having sexual agency (sexual freedom and power), the “oversupply” of women in colleges, and that women who have sex outside of marriage are not making men pay a high enough price for it.

Seriously: **** you, Slate.

This whole thing is like backwards day. For women to have power (over men) in Regnerus’ world, we seem to need to be doing the very things that have kept us powerless all this time. It’s also Regnerus elaborate explanation that men don’t have the problem: it’s actually her fault. Essentially, it’s fairly sophisticated show of slut shaming for girls who act too much like men sexually. All to shore up the fragile masculinity of guys who really wish the sex and gender roles of Mad Men season one would come back – in a creepy, gross way.

Ends with a Freud quote. ’nuff said.


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jebus202
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Sure thing, ZeroM. That's the Internet text medium for communication. And to be clear, I didn't mean to say that you specifically thought all of that other stuff about this particularly woman in question. (I try, when I'm talking like that, to actually head a post with a OMegabyte,

...

but in this case I forgot)

The only mild disagreement I have with this last post is that there is a possible implied 'something negative' (in her) in the 'her loss', but not necessarily and with your explanation there isn't. I was really more speaking to one common theme - I've seen it much more among men, since that's my home culture, after all - that the 'ideal' attitude to have re: confidence and rejection is something like this:

Go out, socialize!
Find woman attractive (based on variety of criteria-depending on the standards of the dude in question, this may or may not be 'hawt or nawt')
Attempt to chat her up! (methods drastically vary)
Attempt successful! (Great, follow up)
Attempt unsuccessful:(! (Well, that's her loss-you're a great guy, so forget her!)

My criticism of the last step is that, the way it's expressed many times seems like sour grapes. That's all.

I don't see the problem with feeling like someone who rejects you has lost out on something. I've been rejected plenty of times, and it was their loss each time, because I'm amazing and they could have benefited from being exposed to that awesomeness.

I don't mean it bitterly, but I don't see anything wrong with people who do hold it bitterly when they're rejected out of hand by someone they've exposed themselves to slightly by showing an interest in.

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Rakeesh
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Jebus,

Feeling like the one who rejected you lost out on something is fine. It's the part of the self-narrative where 'they lost out on something and should be sneered at for it, however slightly' that I disagree with. (Again, 0Meg wasn't subscribing to that part of it, I was just musing on something I'd heard expressed more than once.)

The problem with meaning it bitterly is that it's hard to tell when it is rejection 'out of hand', and that feeling bitterness doesn't really get you anything at all anyway. Given those two factors, I guess it just makes more sense to me not to be bitter, especially since again there isn't an obligation to just accept any sort of date offering that comes along just because you've got the confidence to ask. *shrug*

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twinky
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I saw that too, Samp. I thoroughly enjoyed the rebuttal. There must be something going around -- in the last week or so there have been a few weird throwback relationship articles on sites where you wouldn't expect to find them.
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Tresopax
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quote:
There are people you just don't take advice from, Synethesia. She's one of `em.
The key question is... why does it seem like such a large portion of advice columns are from such people?

I suspect the answer is because a wise advice-giver is smart enough to realize its impossible to give good advice on things like relationships to millions of different individual readers that he or she has never met.

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Synesthesia
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Steve Harvey comes to mind.
I don't think I will take advice from these people on the grounds that human beings are all different.

I also will continue my quest to get to know that fellow I like on different levels though I'm still scared to ask him out again which doesn't matter because I didn't see him and hopefully will see him tomorrow.

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