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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Occupy Wall Street and the sad state of American protesting (Page 15)

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Author Topic: Occupy Wall Street and the sad state of American protesting
Samprimary
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I've always been amused by the fact that it got turned into "samp." Samp Rimary? Where's that come from? The wastebasket of Star Wars character name rejects?

quote:
but I'd say Samp's interpretation of it is significantly skewed
My 'interpretation' of the infographic is skewed?
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Dan_Frank
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I think Samp Rimary was an Andorian. I don't actually know enough Star Wars to know what an Andorian is, but I'm pretty sure I know enough Star Wars to know that they're something.

So, yeeeaah... I mentally pronounced it "SAMP-ruh-merry" or something along those lines for... quite a long time. Years, probably. I just assumed it was a made up word, and didn't give it any more thought. [Dont Know]

Actually, I'll totally cop to something else, even more embarrassing! For at least a year, I mentally read "Hatrack" as "HA-track" and did not make the mental connection to, you know. A hat rack. When I did I just sort of sat there in stunned silence, made speechless by my own dumbassery.

So, now you know. Just keep that between us, okay?

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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I've always been amused by the fact that it got turned into "samp." Samp Rimary? Where's that come from? The wastebasket of Star Wars character name rejects?

quote:
but I'd say Samp's interpretation of it is significantly skewed
My 'interpretation' of the infographic is skewed?
To me you seemed pretty "rah-rah go team" about it, so I was a bit surprised when I didn't see that borne out in the graphic itself.
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
I've always been amused by the fact that it got turned into "samp." Samp Rimary? Where's that come from?

I think that might have been my fault. Sam didn't work for me as a shortening as Samprimary; Samp did.

I also call Dagonee Dags, not Dag. (Because DaG was someone else entirely.)

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Dan_Frank
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Y'know, it was also only a few months ago that I noticed where SenojRetep comes from. Another big "Wow I'm dumb" moment.

How about you, rivka? What's the trick to correctly processing your screen name?

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Dan_Frank
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I'm guessing it's an anagram of Varik. Which is... hm, apparently a village in the Dutch province of Gelderland!

Is your secret revealed?

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BlackBlade
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For the longest time (and this is still sorta the case today) I mentally pronounced Samprimary as "Samp-Primary".
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Dan_Frank
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Yeah, me too BB, I think that's a more accurate way of demonstrating what I was trying to say above.
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Lyrhawn
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I used to pronounce sakeriver as sake (as in, "I'll do it for your sake") until someone made reference or a joke, at which point I had an oooooh moment.

In my head, whenever I see "BlackBlade" I automatically translate it to "Mormegil," which is his Elvish name (in Sindarin).

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Sean Monahan
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I used to pronounce sakeriver as sake (as in, "I'll do it for your sake")

That's not how it's pronounced?
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Lyrhawn
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I've since been led to believe that it's sake river.
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Samprimary
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not star wars per se, but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorian

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Andonian_tea

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Samprimary
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http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/m7ymg/correction_to_the_misleading_infographic_saying/
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
How about you, rivka? What's the trick to correctly processing your screen name?

It's just my first name with a lowercase r.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
In my head, whenever I see "BlackBlade" I automatically translate it to "Mormegil," which is his Elvish name (in Sindarin).

I'm not parsing this correctly. Is there a character named BlackBlade, or is that how the phrase translates into Elvish?
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
not star wars per se, but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorian

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Andonian_tea

Oh god I'm the worst.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
How about you, rivka? What's the trick to correctly processing your screen name?

It's just my first name with a lowercase r.
Aha! Now that's downright Machiavellian!
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Juxtapose
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/m7ymg/correction_to_the_misleading_infographic_saying/

I see you, and raise you.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
In my head, whenever I see "BlackBlade" I automatically translate it to "Mormegil," which is his Elvish name (in Sindarin).

I'm not parsing this correctly. Is there a character named BlackBlade, or is that how the phrase translates into Elvish?
Turin Turambar, my all time favorite Tolkien character, who is woefully under appreciated, changes names a few times throughout his travels in Beleriand, but during his time in Nargothrond, he is known as Mormegil, the Black Blade (or Black Sword), because the sword he carried, Anglachel (reforged as Gurthang) was made from meteorite rock, and thus black.

Seriously man, read the Silmarillion, or at least read the Children of Hurin.

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Blayne Bradley
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*raises hand* I have read it, and consider it a must read before one does any world building.
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advice for robots
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Although it's really easy to end up just copying Tolkien's world after you read Silmarillion.
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Lyrhawn
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George R. R. Martin is good example of world building that reveres Tolkien, but doesn't copy him. I'd say the only major qualitative differences it the use of language and naming conventions in Tolkien, but 1. Not every writer can also be a philologist, and 2. Martin's naming conventions are specifically Medieval and European, which demands a far lesser degree of complexity.

Middle Earth still comes across as richer, but that's possibly because it's so much more foreign, and Martin borrows so much from the not too distant European past.

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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/m7ymg/correction_to_the_misleading_infographic_saying/

I see you, and raise you.
Andrew Gelman points to some inconsistencies in Schoen's reporting on the poll. Kind of funny, since Schoen is a Democratic pollster whose pronouncements on the poll try to make OWS look bad (or, at least, outside the mainstream), while Gelman is (to the best of my knowledge) a Republican* who dismantles Schoen's misrepresentation of OWS.

*I make this inference based on the fact that he occasionally used to guest blog on David Frum's site back when it was called "NewMajority" (i.e. building a new Republican majority).

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SenojRetep
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More evidence of tensions between Occupy groups and local governments

After a violent shooting death in the Oakland camp, it looks like the mayor and police will again try to clear out the plaza (which led to violent confrontation last time). Drug overdoses in Portland and Salt Lake lead to eviction notices there, with protesters vowing to stay. There's also a story from Burlington, VT about an occupier who apparently shot himself in his tent and city officials express concern over the discharge of a fire arm in a crowded and public space.

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Lyrhawn
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Protesters removed from Zuccotti Park

It's the latest in a string of evictions over the weekend, but obviously it's the biggest news because it was the original Occupy space. Supposedly they'll be allowed to return at some future date for some reason.

The press was kept a block away, which looks pretty damned suspicious to me. If the reports of thousands of books being thrown into dumpsters is true I'll be a little extra furious, but it would seem to be in keeping with most cities' habit of destroying whatever is left behind after they remove the protesters. Very few cities have made provisions to collect and return property after evictions, and some have going out of their way to destroy it, as was the case in Atlanta and Oakland.

I don't like that it was unannounced, under cover of darkness, and without access to the press. It's the latest in a string of poor behavior that doesn't fit the rose-colored glasses version of American protesting that we often have of our society. Looks like not a lot has changed since the 60s and 70s.

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Orincoro
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On that front, little has changed. Conservatives still yap about freedom while doing absolutely nothing to demonstrate that they have an understanding of what freedom is.
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talsmitde
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As one tweet put it: "NYC authorities clearly #OWS eviction is just and reasonable. That's why they're doing it at 2 am and barring all press."

Following the #OWS feed, it appears that many of the protestors are regrouping at Foley Square.

The NYT has some pictures, as well as a partial account of the night.

There's also a livestream here.

Some reports on Twitter about NYPD cutting down some of the trees in the park, as well as chucking the books from the camp's library, and using a sound cannon, but haven't seen any confirmation of any of these things outside of Twitter.

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talsmitde
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More links.

Details on the 5,000+ volume library that was destroyed.

Tweets from journalists about the media blackout and arrests of reporters.

For being a sanitation hazard, Zuccotti Park got cleaned up in a hurry.

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DarkKnight
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Bloombergs statement
quote:
At one o’clock this morning, the New York City Police Department and the owners of Zuccotti Park notified protestors in the park that they had to immediately remove tents, sleeping bags and other belongings, and must follow the park rules if they wished to continue to use it to protest. Many protestors peacefully complied and left. At Brookfield’s request, members of the NYPD and Sanitation Department assisted in removing any remaining tents and sleeping bags. This action was taken at this time of day to reduce the risk of confrontation in the park, and to minimize disruption to the surrounding neighborhood.
quote:
“I have become increasingly concerned – as had the park’s owner, Brookfield Properties – that the occupation was coming to pose a health and fire safety hazard to the protestors and to the surrounding community. We have been in constant contact with Brookfield and yesterday they requested that the City assist it in enforcing the no sleeping and camping rules in the park. But make no mistake – the final decision to act was mine.

“The park had become covered in tents and tarps, making it next to impossible to safely navigate for the public, and for first responders who are responsible for guaranteeing public safety. The dangers posed were evident last week when an EMT was injured as protestors attempted to prevent him and several police officers from helping a mentally ill man who was menacing others. As an increasing number of large tents and other structures have been erected, these dangers have increased. It has become increasingly difficult even to monitor activity in the park to protect the protestors and the public, and the proliferation of tents and other obstructions has created an increasing fire hazard that had to be addressed.

quote:
No right is absolute and with every right comes responsibilities. The First Amendment gives every New Yorker the right to speak out – but it does not give anyone the right to sleep in a park or otherwise take it over to the exclusion of others – nor does it permit anyone in our society to live outside the law. There is no ambiguity in the law here – the First Amendment protects speech – it does not protect the use of tents and sleeping bags to take over a public space.

“Protestors have had two months to occupy the park with tents and sleeping bags. Now they will have to occupy the space with the power of their arguments.


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DarkKnight
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NYT account of what happened
quote:
The mayor’s office sent out a message on Twitter at 1:19 a.m. saying: “Occupants of Zuccotti should temporarily leave and remove tents and tarps. Protesters can return after the park is cleared.” Fliers handed out by the police at the private park on behalf of the park’s owner, Brookfield Properties, and the city, spelled out the same message.

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Mucus
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quote:
Shen Tong, a protester and former leader of the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989, tried to calm the growing tension between protesters and police. Addressing a crowd of about a hundred people two blocks from the park, he shouted, and his words were echoed by all those standing near.

"Brothers and sisters of the NYPD who used to think you're not part of this. Tonight, you're a part of this," he said. "You used to think you could just keep your head down and get along, or maybe get ahead, but tonight, we tell you, you are involved!"

Shen said the key to winning the night was to stay mobile.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/zuccotti-park-cleared-occupy-wall-street_n_1094313.html
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TomDavidson
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Yeah, sending that message at 1AM was a total dick move. (In related news, does anyone else find the Times' naked bias hysterically funny? It's like they're personally put out about it. Maybe one of their editors used to jog through the park every morning. *grin*)
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talsmitde
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
(In related news, does anyone else find the Times' naked bias hysterically funny? It's like they're personally put out about it. Maybe one of their editors used to jog through the park every morning. *grin*)

You mean like this?

"One young father, pushing his toddler son in a stroller, gave police officers guarding Zuccotti Park a thumbs-up sign. Another man, rushing by in a cream suit, flashed them a megawatt grin, and a blonde woman stopped in her tracks. 'Ooooooh, good,' she said."

Father with stroller . . . suit with a megawatt grin . . . blonde woman saying "Ooooooh, good," . . . that's not loaded imagery at all.

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talsmitde
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There was an incident at UC-Davis yesterday, where a campus police officer pepper-sprayed about ten protestors, who were sitting with their arms linked, from about three or four feet away.

USA Today article

Fuller YouTube clip

Video of medic treating those hit by pepper spray

Be sure to have the sound on for the video at the second link: the UC Davis students on the quad at the time were very upset.

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capaxinfiniti
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There was another incident at occupy Portland where a protester hit a police horse. Most places view hitting a police service animal (dog or horse) the same as hitting a police officer. I wonder if the perpetrator was charged with assault - and if not, why not, especially considering the possible injury of the horse.
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TomDavidson
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To be fair, the horse had just trampled his girlfriend, and he couldn't reach the cop's head. If you don't want your horse punched, you probably shouldn't use it to knock people over.
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Bella Bee
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In that video it looks like he hit a different horse from the girlfriend trampling one.
Although punching a horse in the face is pretty cruel, it's also not very kind to the horse to use it as some kind of battering ram or crushing machine.

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Glenn Arnold
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I'm still trying to find the frame where he punched the horse. I'm assuming it's somewhere near the 2/3 mark, just before the guy behind the second horse is knocked down. Can anyone pinpoint the time?
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Lyrhawn
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That UC Davis incident was at once shocking and at the same time part of a pattern of events that doesn't surprise me at all.

This was a particularly bad one though. Students staging a sit-in are slowly and methodically, almost thoughtfully pepper-sprayed? Come on, how can you make the argument that sitting, armed linked, heads down students are menacing you?

Their excuse was that they used the pepper spray instead of beating them with clubs. Well gee, I guess we should be thankful for that!

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Lyrhawn
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In the evening after the incident, students form a silent gauntlet of protest as UC Davis Chancellor Katehi walks to her car.

She looked a little rattled, but it was hard to tell. Smart move by the protesters. Earlier in the day it was time for shouting. Then, it was time for silence. Whoever had the idea knows what he or she is doing.

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Shanna
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Applause to whoever organized the silent protest. Brilliant decision. Just watching it gave me the chills. I can't imagine what it felt like to walk it.

This is a great article about the event at UC Davis: Militarization Of Campus Police

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Orincoro
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I've been following this closely. I know a number f the people involved, and it took place 100 yards from my music department and English faculty.

Chancellor katehi, in essence, is completely and utterly incompetent and dangerously so. Her reasoning was that this police confrontation was the only viable solution to the problem of removing protesters. Not negotiating. Not waiting for them to disperse. Not allowing them to air their grievances publicly, but attacking them to "gain compliance" as she put it.

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talsmitde
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Orincoro: I was on Occupy UC Davis's Facebook page this morning and came across this note from Kristin Stoneking, the campus minister for the Cal Aggie Christian Association, talking about how and why she came to be escorting Chancellor Katehi to her car the night of the silent protest. It's good stuff, with thoughts on the nature of power and the dangers of violent responses.

I'll be keeping UC Davis in my thoughts today, and I hope all goes well for the students rallying at noon today in the quad. My large public university in the Southeast has been pretty quiet, but then again, the administration isn't trying to double fees again in the next five years, or at least haven't told us that they're planning to do so. [Roll Eyes]

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talsmitde
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And Shanna, thanks for sharing that article on the militarization of campus police. Yeah, it's hard to credibly argue that sitting down with linked arms is somehow "violent."
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Orincoro
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I know Ostertag personally, he was one of my professors at one time, though I didn't find that we had a lot to talk about in terms of music. He's an interesting guy- he definitely is an expert on protests and riots.
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Blayne Bradley
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While on the topic of money.

http://xkcd.com/980/huge/#x=-10984&y=-7344&z=5

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanna:
Applause to whoever organized the silent protest. Brilliant decision. Just watching it gave me the chills. I can't imagine what it felt like to walk it.

This is a great article about the event at UC Davis: Militarization Of Campus Police

Yes. A silent protest in that instance is far more penetrating. Looking at the police officer who sprayed the group first, it became clear to me that once he got his bottle out and shook it, he was going to do it. It was either that, or look weak by putting it back.
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Lyrhawn
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My brain is in a weird place right now.

I've watched about eight hours of civil rights documentaries over the course of the past two days for the directed reading I'm doing, and I'm in the middle of a stack of books on the same subject.

If that video, the one of the spraying, had been in black and white, there would have been nothing distinguishing it from the Civil Rights Movement except their clothes.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
My brain is in a weird place right now.

I've watched about eight hours of civil rights documentaries over the course of the past two days for the directed reading I'm doing, and I'm in the middle of a stack of books on the same subject.

If that video, the one of the spraying, had been in black and white, there would have been nothing distinguishing it from the Civil Rights Movement except their clothes.

Well that, and we didn't have pepper spray in the 60's. They would have been beaten with clubs, mauled by dogs, and high pressure hoses spraying them.

Still, the policemen were completely out of order. I just read the UC Davis campus police chief was suspended. Sure he's responsible for his officer's conduct, but the cops who sprayed the cans, shouldn't get paid administrative leave. They should get paid administrative leave and then be told they've been fired once the investigation is complete.

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Lyrhawn
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Tear gas was commonly used. Not EVERY encounter with police looked like a confrontation with Bull Connor. That's beside the point though.
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