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Author Topic: Ender has been cast
Foust
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But wait, now I'm really curious. If you're cool with that Littlefinger prostitute scene, what "boring" sex scenes are you thinking of? Or at least, which show?
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Dogbreath
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I already covered a lot of this on the thread dedicated to the A Game of Thrones show. I actually didn't mention the Littlefinger scene - the one sex scene in the show I actually thought did a lot in the way of storytelling was Tyrion's very first scene. I thought the Littlefinger scene was more or less porn with Littlefinger's little monologue spliced over it.

Most of the sex in both GoT and Spartacus is just naked people going at it doggy style, with very little sensuality or imagination. Even the actors look bored. I suppose if you (the director, not you personally) want to deconstruct how sex in movies is usually shown as being wonderful and sensual and perfect by showing long clips of sweaty people grunting, then do it in one episode and be done with it.

If you read A Game of Thrones, sex and nudity is definitely present, but typically only in places where it shows character development or reveals something about the nature of a certain character. However, the show cuts out a lot of important parts from the book due to time constraints, yet has no problem adding lots of extra sex scenes that weren't present in the book. The only justification I can see for doing that is they feel they had to make the series more titillating to attract viewers.

The scenes I'm thinking of is just about any scene with Theon and his prostitute, the scene with Maester Pycelle and the prostitute, the scene with Cersei and her cousin Lancel (who looked hideously underweight and actually managed to gross me out), the scene with Renly and Loras (which was a decent scene until the slurping sounds... *shudder*), the second scene with Drogo and Dany (which was actually really well done in the book), though at least in GoT they're pretty brief. Spartacus is the boring one. My objection with GoT isn't so much boredom as distraction - I feel like they're a little kinky and don't mesh with the otherwise very serious and lofty tone of the rest of the series.

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SteveRogers
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Harrison Ford as Graff?

EDIT:

And Butterfield confirms role. On the plus side, it seems that the actor is familiar with the original text.

quote:
Butterfield first quoted Ender on Twitter — “In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him” — and then after repeating the word “happy” nine times, announced that “now that I’ve real eased all my pent up emotion, I’m going to talk a wee bit more civilised. I have just booked Enders Game.”

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveRogers:
Harrison Ford as Graff?

I don't hate the idea.

quote:
Originally posted by SteveRogers:
On the plus side, it seems that the actor is familiar with the original text.

That's very good.
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millernumber1
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Well, I for one think that quoting a book that you were just hired in the eponymous role is an extremely good sign. And not just once, but several times.

Ford would be interesting, though he's too old for the role as written. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be great, though.

I was just talking with a friend, and we thought that Elle Fanning would be great for Valentine - though with Butterfield cast, it might be hard to cast a Valenting younger than Ender :-)

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PhoelixSpaceCat
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The Brit is confirmed. Sigh. As long as they are going that old why didn't they just use the Dolphin Tale kid, that OSC liked so much and wanted for Ender?
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Sean Monahan
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Speaking of which, I haven't seen/heard OSC himself saying *anything* about this recently. I don't recall even hearing from him that casting had begun. Does this worry anyone else?
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The Rabbit
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I would not be at all surprised if OSCs contract requests (or requires) that he not make any public comments on the movie until it is released.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by PhoelixSpaceCat:
The Brit is confirmed. Sigh. As long as they are going that old why didn't they just use the Dolphin Tale kid, that OSC liked so much and wanted for Ender?

Authors have varying degrees of control over movie adaptations of their movies. More often than not they have virtually no control over casting choices. Anne Rice absolutely hated that Tom Cruise was cast as Lestat in Interview With The Vampire, but he did such a great job she came around.
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millernumber1
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I was hoping that OSC had held on to enough control over the film to not be involved with NDAs.

I don't want to be overly pessimistic, especially given that Summit has usually been fairly author-friendly (well, basing that solely on the Twilight films, which have a much more widespread and public fandom).

I just hope that the filmmakers are aware that people actually still like the book, and it doesn't go the way of other film adaptations of books from the 80s or earlier (which turn out to be "in name only" adaptations).

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Monahan:
Speaking of which, I haven't seen/heard OSC himself saying *anything* about this recently. I don't recall even hearing from him that casting had begun. Does this worry anyone else?

If the production company is smart, they will downplay his involvement to the point of total obscurity because he's a major liability, both for his past, and for his public relations "abilities."

Still, his involvement poses an enormous public relations challenge, and a big risk for the company that releases this film. It is not inconceivable that the negative pub this film generates, based on OSC's name alone, will overshadow the PR machine, and shroud the whole thing in an icky political stew. So the last thing they want is OSC talking about this film, *at all*.

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Scott R
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I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.

Outside of the speculative fiction community-- beyond authors, editors, and involved fans-- most people aren't aware. They are aware he's written a book they like and that's about it.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.

Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.

Not what I meant. A vocal minority will make a stink about it, and the release will be marred with controversy. That's what I'm saying could happen.
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Scott R
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.

Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
It generally doesn't come up in book or movie reviews, or in conversations about his books (with real, living people). At least, not in my observation.
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Samprimary
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quote:
or in conversations about his books (with real, living people)
I literally lol'd — this is the most you caveat in history. Real, living people, as opposed to what, exactly?
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rivka
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Online AIs like you (and me), of course.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.

Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
It generally doesn't come up in book or movie reviews, or in conversations about his books (with real, living people). At least, not in my observation.
Right. Because you've met him. And you're so special, that you know how this will play out. I forgot, sorry.
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Scott R
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
I think you're overstating how much the public is aware of his political opinions.

Card's political opinions and anti-gay speech and activism is now pretty much the most prominently talked about thing that involves him, and it NEVER FAILS to come up in practically ANY open comments that involves him. Period.
It generally doesn't come up in book or movie reviews, or in conversations about his books (with real, living people). At least, not in my observation.
Right. Because you've met him. And you're so special, that you know how this will play out. I forgot, sorry.
I am pretty special, and I have met OSC.

I'm not sure what either of those have to do with prognosticating what will happen at the movie release, if OSC is involved in it. I'm not making the claim to have some special knowledge; I note that you made a forecast, too.

Is there a point buried in your sarcasm?

Samp:

[Smile] It was to distinguish "real" people from the people who are authors, editors, and involved fans of science fiction. "Real, living" was probably not the best choice, given my history.

I don't think most folks who would go see Ender's Game would necessarily concern themselves with Card's political history. Can you show examples where something similar has occurred? If I recall correctly, his Ender series still makes the NY Times Best seller list whenever they're released, despite his opinions. Why would a movie elicit a stronger reaction?

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millernumber1
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http://geektyrant.com/news/2011/11/30/orson-scott-card-shares-his-thoughts-on-the-casting-of-ender.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Apparently, OSC is neither under NDA or unhappy about these directions.

"I'm delighted that Asa Butterfield is so happy to be playing Ender Wiggin! I just saw his fine performance in Hugo - best thing in the movie! - and I look forward to seeing him bring Ender Wiggin to life on the screen."

That doesn't sound like "Oh, man, they are adding a romance" to me.

I am heartened.

Just as I am disheartened by the thread direction.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Is there a point buried in your sarcasm?
My original point still stands. The current public reputation of OSC does not resemble what his public reputation *will* be when and if the media picks up on his rather vast library of damningly awful political writing- among it rather a few worrying statements, and reflections on rather a few more views that the media might be interested in talking about.
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Samprimary
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Should we take bets as to whether or not card's stance on homosexuality is going to be (a) a factor, or (b) a non-factor in the run-up to this movie's release? Whether or not talk of Card's politics and anti-gay activism will be a prominent undercurrent and even headliner subject during the stretch of time to the movie's cinematic release? How about a bet on whether or not top critics will tend to make some cursory or more expanded note of the controversy involving the author's inflammatory views, by the time this gets released?

Because I already know the answers to all of these questions, and I like easy money.

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Xavier
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Wasn't there already a minor hullabaloo over the game that was inspired by Empire?

A major motion picture would be a lot bigger version of the exact same controversy, I'd imagine.

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Samprimary
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Hah, yeah. God, that was annoying. Controversy over an XBLA game ffs
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
Why would a movie elicit a stronger reaction?

Seriously? Because it's a movie. Books slide across the shelves, and nobody takes notice, one way or the other- books are always going to be there. But films are released, and the theaters want asses in seats. The pressure for performance is much higher. The profile of a film release is a world apart, both in scale and in dollar amounts involved, than even the most anticipated book releases.

What's an ad campaign for a book? What does that cost? A few tens of thousands of dollars, or less? This film will have an ad budget in the tens of millions of dollars, probably. It's going to be plied up and down the coasts and across the world in an effort to win back its budget in ticket sales. And all that profile means there's a story involved, if there's something about the author that is in any way controversial.

Honestly, this is really striking me as naive. His book releases are one thing, and they are worlds apart from a film release.

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millernumber1
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I wonder if there's going to be any kind of book release (or releases) around the projected film release date for cross-promotion. I see possibly trying to tie in the second Formic Wars book (since the first book comes out July 2012, it might be possible to have the second out around March 2013...though perhaps a bit tight). Another option I could maybe see happening would be OSC finally writing and releasing that final chapter of Ender's Game (and maybe rewriting the end of Shadow of the Giant...hey, a continuity nerd can dream) in another edition. Maybe with the cool ebook cover? Or just a film still cover.
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Scott R
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quote:
What's an ad campaign for a book? What does that cost? A few tens of thousands of dollars, or less?
Depends on the book. For Ender's series? I imagine quite a bit more than that.

quote:
And all that profile means there's a story involved, if there's something about the author that is in any way controversial.
Possibly. Roman Polanski's movies don't seem to get much guff, and he raped a child.

quote:
Wasn't there already a minor hullabaloo over the game that was inspired by Empire?
Was the kerfuffle about the plot of Empire, or about OSC's politics?

quote:
Should we take bets as to whether or not card's stance on homosexuality is going to be (a) a factor, or (b) a non-factor in the run-up to this movie's release?
How are you quantifying "factor?" I mean are you going to be judging from frequency of times that OSC's name is mentioned, in conjunction with the movie, in conjunction with his politics?
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millernumber1
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I was actually thinking about Polanski - but in general, his films aren't large budget, doorbusting events, as I assume Ender's Game will be. Or it better be - I'm hoping for at least 100 million for the budget.

Not that I think his continued career without any sort of apology is a good thing.

But I am curious about the book release idea.

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Blayne Bradley
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I'll see it, and get as many people as I can to see it. Because its American politics he writes about and to an American audience it won't be an issue up here.
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Nighthawk
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Butterfield tweets confirmation of casting (Here is his Twitter account), and Harrison Ford is being considered for Graff?!?
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pooka
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quote:
How about a bet on whether or not top critics will tend to make some cursory or more expanded note of the controversy involving the author's inflammatory views, by the time this gets released?
It depends on who you mean by top critics. Few are going to have space to quote anything by the author of the work a movie is based on, especially where it is not relevant to the subject matter. It depends a lot on the quality of the movie as well. I expect there to be many calls for a boycott, but it's not something I'm dreading. It may turn out like "The Golden Compass" or it may turn out like "Twilight." I have no idea. But I'd imagine the average reviewer will simply mention the film is adapted from the novel by controversial author Orson Scott Card. They will put "controversial" in there to show they are aware, but I don't see it's the role of movie critics to comment on what the feel is lack of moral standing in the author of a work a film is based in. I do think Card is unlikely to get screenwriting credit as a result of the need to distance his reputation from the work. I hope that won't go to the extent of losing the story, though I would prefer the movie or at least the conclusion be solidly based in Ender's Game and not Ender's Shadow.

The conclusion of Ender's Shadow could, if Ender's game is successful, be a prolog to an Shadow of the Hegemon movie.

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SteveRogers
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quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
Butterfield tweets confirmation of casting (Here is his Twitter account), and Harrison Ford is being considered for Graff?!?

You're a little late to the party, but I saved you some refreshments. [Smile]
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Xavier
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quote:
Was the kerfuffle about the plot of Empire, or about OSC's politics?
His politics (specifically in regards to homosexual rights).
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveRogers:
quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
Butterfield tweets confirmation of casting (Here is his Twitter account), and Harrison Ford is being considered for Graff?!?

You're a little late to the party, but I saved you some refreshments. [Smile]
I'm aware that he's been cast, but he hadn't spoken about it until now apparently. And he's suddenly found himself with a lot more followers.

Besides, I'll take free refreshments any time!!! [Big Grin]

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Zotto!
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Cool - Hailee Steinfeld is in negotiations. Wonder if it's for Petra or Valentine. Whichever, I am becoming cautiously optimistic about this movie. [Smile]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/enders-game-hailee-steinfeld-268649

Edit: Here's an interview for those who haven't seen True Grit. I'm only a few minutes in, but I already think she'd make a great Valentine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdHZjy3lqqs

[ December 01, 2011, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Zotto! ]

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SteveRogers
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quote:
Originally posted by Zotto!:
Cool - Hailee Steinfeld is in negotiations. Wonder if it's for Petra or Valentine. Whichever, I am becoming cautiously optimistic about this movie. [Smile]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/enders-game-hailee-steinfeld-268649

Edit: Here's an interview for those who haven't seen True Grit. I'm only a few minutes in, but I already think she'd make a great Valentine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdHZjy3lqqs

This article reports she's in talks for the role of Petra.
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BlackBlade
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Ohhh, I'd love that casting choice.
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Zotto!
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Nice. Having [now] watched a few clips of True Grit, I can definitely see that character as well.
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rivka
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The first article did say Petra as well, just not by name. The actress is 16 (well, she will be in 10 days), but she looks pretty young and she's small, so it could work.
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Zotto!
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Heh, don't know how I missed that paragraph in the article I linked. At any rate, this is all sounding good! [Smile]
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millernumber1
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That would be pretty cool! Definitely one of the best parts of True Grit (as OSC thought as well) :-)
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Pat
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This movie would be infinitely cooler if they manage to give Jake Lloyd and Haley Joel Osment cameos.
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Should we take bets as to whether or not card's stance on homosexuality is going to be (a) a factor, or (b) a non-factor in the run-up to this movie's release? Whether or not talk of Card's politics and anti-gay activism will be a prominent undercurrent and even headliner subject during the stretch of time to the movie's cinematic release? How about a bet on whether or not top critics will tend to make some cursory or more expanded note of the controversy involving the author's inflammatory views, by the time this gets released?

Because I already know the answers to all of these questions, and I like easy money.

As long as we are forecasting, here's mine. Gay activists will call for people to boycott the movie. If the movie is mediocre or a flop, no one but gay activists will notice. If the movie becomes a blockbuster, the boycott will draw more attention but that attention will more than likely backfire causing more people to see the movie. Card's politics won't become a big issue unless the movie actually gets nominated for an academy award. If it gets to that point, Card's politics will be a real liability and will give him and other conservatives energy to grind their axe against the Hollywood elite for years to come.

[ December 02, 2011, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]

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Dan_Frank
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Yeah I think Rabbit's forecast is pretty accurate.
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Orincoro
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It's an interesting point. It's a little sad that the realistic outcome of OSC's years of churning out agitprop will be simply enough static for him to justify spending more years churning out agitprop. There's something pathetic about that.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Clearly he "churned out" more then agitation propaganda or else you wouldn't be here, on his website, talking about the movie that is going to made from his book. Show some respect.
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Orincoro
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Sure, he spent years before that writing beautiful fiction. It's a shame.
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Stone_Wolf_
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We are all in the process of becoming caricatures of ourselves, but he is -still- writing beautiful fiction, and no matter how much it has hurt me to downgrade him from the status of "personal hero" to "one of many favorite writers" because of his intolerant views, I still think it is rude to say his assumed motivations are pathetic. No matter what else he has done, he has provided us a place to have this community of words we share, and I rankle at such blatant disrespect toward the man.
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Orincoro
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Well, I was talking about the process of the negative feedback cycle that builds up over partisanship, and its effect on OSC and his agitprop stylings. Not his personal motivations. His personal motivations are a bit enigmatic. The process though, is pathetic. But then, it's a process that exists outside of this particular case.
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Stone_Wolf_
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Fair enough.
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