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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » AV Club: Orson Scott Card primer

   
Author Topic: AV Club: Orson Scott Card primer
Speed
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I don't know if I have anything too profound to add, but I thought I might as well at least point this out, in case anyone is interested:

Orson Scott Card: Gateways to Geekery.

Enjoy.

[edit: I just read the comment section, and thought I’d better add a warning not to bother unless you have the stomach for Comment Section™ type antics. My posting of that link is not intended to endorse its contents.]

[ March 04, 2012, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Speed ]

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millernumber1
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Wow, both the article and the comments seem a bit...frothy...
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Samprimary
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The comments are about the best you can hope for with a comments section. I actually ended up reading them all the way through and noting the underlying themes about how he and his work are discussed now pretty much whenever they're discussed.

The article isn't frothy but it shouldn't have gone from ender's game to ender's shadow. In my personal opinion. I guess. next steps should have been speaker.

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Armoth
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I actually think that Pastwatch is one of OSC's most accessible works.
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millernumber1
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Actually...I think that is how they're discussed in general on fandom posts and boards. I personally have had many civil discussions about OSC and his work without any of those themes coming up - just not in "typical" circles. (Though your use of "whenever" as opposed to "wherever" seems to indicate a certain context, so my exception is perhaps irrelevant to your purposes.)

I do agree that the structure of the article was weird - though to be fair, OSC's work itself does like to loop back on itself and cause problems for people in that respect (though not nearly as badly as Madeleine L'Engle's, for example).

Haven't read the Columbus Pastwatch, but I quite liked the Pastwatch novella about the flood.

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SteveRogers
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I've personally never understood the viewpoint of abhorring an author's work because you don't agree with their personal beliefs. I've read almost all of Orson Scott Card's books and have enjoyed them exponentially, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything the man says.
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Liz B
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Many of the comments seemed to object to 1) giving him money based on his personal beliefs, and/ or 2) popularizing his works, leading to giving him money based on his personal beliefs. Both of which make perfect sense to me. "I don't want my money going to X (even in small royalty-sized amounts), therefore I don't patronize/ purchase Y."

Of course, many others were the second hand "frothing" millernumber1 mentioned. (Perfect characterization. Well done.)

I should say that OSC has given me many, many hours of pleasure over the past (gulp) 25 years, and lots to think about. I will never stop recommending/ buying EG, ES, and Pastwatch.

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Synesthesia
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It's kind of leaked into his stories. If I must buy something by him, it's going to be used. I'm sorry, but to me having a pathological fear of gays is as bad as being that way on the basis of race.
(And it is a pathological fear if you write about the world being torn asunder if two men or two women are allowed to get married. It's rather illogical. All that will happen is two men or two women will get married, and men and women will still get married and make babies. dang.)

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SteveRogers
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It's just weird to me though. I know plenty of people who have weird prejudices or what have you who continue to be hired for part-time or full-time positions in a variety of fields. I disagree with them, but they don't lose their livelihood because of it.
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Blayne Bradley
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Its a little hard to notice if you aren't already aware of it.
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Synesthesia
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He's not going to lose money just because I won't buy any of his books anymore. I reckon it helps if folks don't froth at the mouth about their prejudices.

I wonder if I am prejudice? I don't want to be. But some things FRUSTRATE ME. Like is it intolerant to not be able to tolerate anyone's tolerance? Should I say, well, it's your opinion. I reckon if it partially affects me, like unfriending a guy when he used the N word on my facebook which wasn't nice at all. I felt bad for him for having anxiety. I mean, I am bisexual and could end up with a girl, though I want a dude. I think if folks are going to be that way one should politely say, dude.... chill.

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millernumber1
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I think my problem is that my personal politics are a lot more like OSC's than, say John Scalzi or Robin McKinley or Terry Pratchett's (though I'm certainly not across-the-board with OSC). I buy all four of these authors new. To say nothing of the films I buy new - since I am almost never on board with what actors and directors believe and spend quite a bit of time and money supporting. I simply don't see why disagreement with someone's agenda requires both boycotting and fulminating on the internet.
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Synesthesia
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It depends. It's just being that hateful about gays can no longer be accepted. It is something that is hurting millions, causing suicides of teenagers and stuff. The very sort of folks who read his books in the first place and look up to him and have been inspired by various books of his.
Much like me.... Plus, free speech goes both ways.

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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by millernumber1:
I think my problem is that my personal politics are a lot more like OSC's than, say John Scalzi or Robin McKinley or Terry Pratchett's (though I'm certainly not across-the-board with OSC). I buy all four of these authors new. To say nothing of the films I buy new - since I am almost never on board with what actors and directors believe and spend quite a bit of time and money supporting. I simply don't see why disagreement with someone's agenda requires both boycotting and fulminating on the internet.

Well for one thing, if your politics are even roughly similar to OSC (i.e. you are somewhat conservative, unless I'm misunderstanding) and you want to read a lot of sci-fi fantasy (or watch any popular films!) you pretty much have to be okay with financially supporting people with very different political/social views than yours.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Like is it intolerant to not be able to tolerate anyone's tolerance? Should I say, well, it's your opinion.

You're stumbling upon the fundamental problem our society created when we elevated "tolerance" above things like "truth."

I don't have a problem with gay people. But I'm not "tolerant" of them... to be "tolerant" of them indicates that I do have a problem with them, but I'm suppressing my objections because I don't want to cause unnecessary issues. That's what it means to tolerate something, after all.

No. There's nothing wrong with being gay. And since there's nothing wrong with being gay, that means there is something wrong with condemning people simply because they are gay. Sometimes I might tolerate such people, because they have far deeper and more fundamental issues than I'm willing to try and deal with, but I'm certainly under no obligation to do so.

There is something wrong with, say, pedophilia. And since there's something wrong with it, our choice is to either tolerate it... or not.

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Synesthesia
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I kind of think that sort of hatred of gays is rather pathological. To say that if a group of people are allowed to just be themselves and they are doing nothing but wanting to be with consenting adults of the same sex society will collapse. Well... that sounds a bit extreme.
But how does one DEAL with people like that and not be a jerk? we all have to live in the world with different people. I suspect that people with this fear of gay freedom are the ones who need to change and learn as I am frustrated with religions, but people should have the right to believe what they want even if it's inaccurate and not force the world to live by their religious rules.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
But how does one DEAL with people like that and not be a jerk?

A good rule of thumb I've heard is speak unto others as you would have them speak unto you.
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Synesthesia
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OK. I try to be polite about my anti-anti-homosexuality. Or I say, DEAL WITH THE GAYS SWANS.
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BlackBlade
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Don't try to be polite. Succeed at being polite.
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millernumber1
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
Well for one thing, if your politics are even roughly similar to OSC (i.e. you are somewhat conservative, unless I'm misunderstanding) and you want to read a lot of sci-fi fantasy (or watch any popular films!) you pretty much have to be okay with financially supporting people with very different political/social views than yours. [/QB]

Exactly. So I don't see why people can't do it for the few popular genre authors who are different. As for the argument about homophobia causing widespread suffering and death, I'd say conservatives have at least as much cause for not wanting to financially support those who encourage abortion.
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