Hatrack River
Home   |   About Orson Scott Card   |   News & Reviews   |   OSC Library   |   Forums   |   Contact   |   Links
Research Area   |   Writing Lessons   |   Writers Workshops   |   OSC at SVU   |   Calendar   |   Store
E-mail this page
Hatrack River Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » How to kill a child and get away with it (Page 25)

  This topic comprises 26 pages: 1  2  3  ...  22  23  24  25  26   
Author Topic: How to kill a child and get away with it
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
O'Mara.

quote:
In the roughly 37 hours George Zimmerman spent talking on the phone during his first stint in jail, there are several minutes that could land his defense attorney in hot water.

One call suggests defense lawyer Mark O’Mara knew from the start that tens of thousands of dollars in donations had begun pouring in to help Zimmerman.

In a phone call recorded April 14 between Zimmerman and brother-in-law Scott Wilson, the two discuss the new defense lawyer and the attorney’s vision for an upcoming bond hearing. Zimmerman twice said that he told O’Mara that he tried to transfer $37,000 from his online legal defense fund site, but could not complete the transaction because PayPal rules prevent transfers larger than $10,000.

But in court later at Zimmerman’s bond hearing, O’Mara told the judge his client was broke.

O’Mara told The Herald that he does not recall the conversation Zimmerman referred to and would not risk his law license lying to the court.

“He said he’s going to have me declared indigent,” Zimmerman told Wilson on the call. “I told him I didn’t think that would be possible, because there was one sizable transfer I tried to make. It got stopped. You know, $37. He said: ‘Well that doesn’t matter. Right now you’re not working. You’re not providing an income for your family. You’re probably not going to be employable for the rest of your life.’”

Wilson, the man O’Mara identified as the person who administered Zimmerman’s online fund-raising drive, at one point asks Zimmerman whether the lawyer knows “the volume” of the donations that came in from the public. Zimmerman said O’Mara knew about the attempted transfer of $37,000, but not any more than that.

They agreed to keep it that way.

In April, O’Mara filed a motion saying Zimmerman had no job and no “significant financial assets or savings.” Zimmerman’s wife testified the couple had no income at all that she knew of.

The judge granted a $150,000 bond. Days later, O’Mara declared to the court that Zimmerman had actually amassed a small fortune in donations.

At the time, O’Mara said he had failed to press his client about how much money he had raised, and said he learned about the money in a conversation discussing how Zimmerman needed to take down his Internet sites.

That’s when prosecutors reviewed Zimmerman’s jailhouse calls and bank records and found that he, his wife and sister had worked with Wilson to transfer all the donations of out Zimmerman’s name into cash.

Zimmerman and his wife were recorded talking in a simple code to refer to large amounts of money. “Eight dollars” meant $80,000.

Furious, Seminole County Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester sent Zimmerman back to jail. A new bail hearing was held in June, and Zimmerman was released on a $1 million bond. His wife, Shellie, was charged with perjury.

“I recall now some conversation of a transfer, but I don’t recall a specific amount,” O’Mara told The Miami Herald. “If it was $10,000 or $100,000 or $30,000, I would have remembered. It’s not the type of thing you would risk your license to practice law over.”

He stressed that the jailhouse recording shows that Zimmerman was keeping him “at arm’s length” regarding the money he had raised. O’Mara said he does not think the recording is clear-cut about whether Zimmerman told him about the money.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/17/2898502/jail-call-says-defense-attorney.html#storylink=cpy

The Zimmermans

quote:
In one call, Shellie and George Zimmerman are trying to find out when he'll get out of jail.

"It's gonna be at Susie's birth month, maybe sooner," Shellie reassures her husband, without saying the actual date he will be released.

"Honey, you have no idea what's going on but I cannot tell you," she said.

"Do not tell anyone about this," she said in a separate phone call. "You didn't tell anyone in your family about time or anything right?"

Shellie loses her cool when George said he did indeed tell his family about their plans.

"Oh my God," she said. "OK well, if we're all screwed that's fine."

George's sister Susie then takes over.

"The thing is, that things are being recorded," she said, trying to explain why Shellie was upset George confided in other family members.

"I didn't say, I didn't say it like that," George said. "It was, you know, in code."

The trio also often spoke in Spanish when discussing something sensitive, switching over to English only for innocuous statements.

Sean Hannity

http://globalgrind.com/news/fox-news-host-sean-hannity-mark-omara-trayvon-martin-phone-calls-pay-george-zimmermans-legal-fees-details

and finally, the state's response to zimmerman's attempt to have the judge removed from the case.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/100330177/State-s-Response-to-Defendant-s-Verified-Motion-to-Disqualify-Trial-Judge-7-17-12


man, down the rabbit hole. 'it's okay guys it was in CODE!'

Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cue people saying this proves O'Mara is to blame, and that it's somehow unfair to look at Zimmerman as a liar.
Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't even know what the cues are anymore. I mean he even called pastor terry jones. And these logs are insane.
Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Well can we at least say he's no angel, and that if his family didn't release this, they only have themselves to blame if folks begin to disparage his character? [Wink]

Not really. His family hasn't gone on TV and talked about what a saint he was, or how great he is as far as I have seen. They haven't released pictures of him as a teenager as his current picture, called Martin a racist for beating a Hispanic male up, or claimed Martin made racial slurs to the police.


[Big Grin]


I figured he was a douche. If the rest of this is true they should press charges. If they don't.....well, they had their 15 min of fame....

Posts: 15072 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's certainly possible GZ mistakenly told his brother O'Mara knew about the transfer when in fact he hadn't gotten around to it.

Still I think that statement about being unemployable in perpetuity is probably a big motivating factor in GZ wanting to just run away from it all. Still illegal stuff and he may have buried himself before standing trial for murder.

Posts: 14314 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you haven't seen his family talking about what a great guy he is, you haven't been paying attention, I'm afraid.

But since you put it like this, if we have license to antagonistically question Zimmerman's character and they *didn't* claim he was a great guy (they did), why are the parents of Martin to be blamed for having invited it when they supposedly did (even though much of what you attributed to them wasn't actually said, as I described above)? Seems a bit of a double-standard, really.

It's still frankly baffling that you insist his parents should have released a better picture of their dead son, as though they were the ones who determined which image would be used in national coverage. I'm really confused, how do you think the major newsrooms operate? When all over the country, having meetings frequently about how to cover this story, did these producers and news directors and consultants say to themselves, "Alright, we need an image of Martin to go with this story. We'll use this one they put out, because it's the only one that could possibly be used, and our hands are tied."

I mean, of course not. Martin's parents weren't the ones who decided how the media would portray their son, and from what I've seen, and I looked, they made some statements that were true but incomplete, which is exactly what would be expected of parents grieving a dead child (or, I don't know, hulking scary man).

[Big Grin]


[Wink]

Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, that's the thing. I wouldn't indict O'Mara based on Zimmerman's account, because ... it's Zimmerman talking. It could be BS. Or he could just legitimately have no idea what his idiot mouth is running on about.

or it could be a code hurr hurr hurr

Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't think it would be possible to indict O'Mara based only a recording of Zimmerman saying he had told O'Mara. At a very minimum, GZ would have to be willing to testify against O'Mara in court and then it would be just a matter of GZ's word against O'Mara's.

Overall, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with O'Mara's handling of the case. Either he's given GZ a lot of very poor legal advice or Zimmerman is refusing to follow his advice or some of both.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
O'Mara's just showboating as usual. Really it is pretty much entirely that Zimmerman is just a really extremely bad client who has made extremely bizarre and questionable decisions right from the beginning, and slowly amped that up to criminally stupid.
Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh my god.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/hannity-gets-first-interview-with-george-zimmerman_b138015

Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The commentary oh wow

quote:
Welp it's about 4 minutes into the interview and Hannity, of all - people, kinda called him out on an inconsistency already. To paraphrase :

Hannity : You said he was running...

GZ : It wasn't a run, more like a skipping.

Hannity : The 911 tape has you saying he was running.

GZ : Well I don't know if I really meant that.


Even with the softball s---, he's still floundering.

quote:
It's official. He's the world's stupidest human being.

Keep commenting though. I don't have tv access.

quote:
Skipping? Jesus christ, Zimmerman.
quote:
He just said Trayvon punched him in the head over a dozen times after slamming his head into the ground. Trayvon Martin : Master of Hokuto Shinken.

Martin also tried to suffocate him now. O'Mara is just sitting there like he's about to flip.

quote:
Imagining how this interview must have gone before editing it leads me to believe that the next high profile murder case in Florida is gonna come after O'Mara strangles the life out of Zimmerman.
quote:
I feel terrible for laughing, since the whole incident was so tragic and infuriating, but... skipping?! My lord. I can only picture O'Mara's face during this whole trainwreck.
quote:
Skipping? Was he actively looking for the word that made Treyvon's behavior sound least threatening?
quote:
I just watched a clip of this, and Hannity questions him repeatedly whether he regrets anything that happened that night. Zimmerman says no, then says it was all part of god's plan.
http://i.imgur.com/w8WTR.png
Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oooooo. I know this is very uncharitable, but when he said he prays for Martin's parents everyday, I had a very bad taste in my mouth.
Posts: 14314 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's okay man, it was god's plan that he shoot trayvon anyway so
Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Uncharitable? Well, I am quite a bit more ready to take offense than you are, BB, but that is to my mind understated. Praying for his parents. Jesus. No pun intended.

How many absurdly stupid or dishonest things does Zimmerman have to say or do before we can begin doubting something BECAUSE he said it?

Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
From the WP.

quote:
Whether Zimmerman was the aggressor plays a major role in his self-defense claim.

“I hadn’t given them a correct address. I was going to give them the actual address,” he said.

“I meant that I was going in the same direction as him. I didn’t mean that I was actually pursuing him.

(emphasis mine) I can hear the Daily Show segment now.

Also, he gets out of the car and suddenly Martin is there? Chalk up "ninjitsu" as just one more of Martin's martial art related skills.

Posts: 14314 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He was just, y'know, walking a few dozen then a few dozen more in the dark not because he was looking for him, but because he...wanted an address. Well I mean that's what I do if I want an address at night, I walk dozens or hundreds of feet between rows of houses to see where I am. Errr...was. Whatever.

I certainly don't use the cell phone I'm talking on and press a couple of buttons, though...

(Actually, I have no idea what sort of phone he was using, so that was a joke. But I think it's pretty uncommon for most smart phones not to come installed with a mapping app. Someone can correct me on that.)

Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As to why Zimmerman's remarks about God and planning and prayer for his parents are so objectionable...according to Zimmerman, Martin literally ambushed him out of nowhere. (Somehow. He was just 'there', or something.) After doing this, with Zimmerman having done nothing but followed him in his truck, he then proceeds to violently attack Zimmerman. Following through, he got on top of his grounded victim and started to beat him to death, because he told him he was going to kill him and then began smashing his head into the ground. Zimmerman then shot him.

That means it was, according to Zimmerman, 'God's plan' that their son not just appear to be but actually BE a violently aggressive would be murderer. Aside from it being a profoundly stupid plan of God's, this goes further and says to his parents, "God wanted your son dead."

Kind of one of the hazards of invoking God, really, and the risk sharply increases when the invoker is a stupid man needing to defend himself against accusations.

----

Kwea, I am still curious if you've found or can recall a time when Martin's parents said he was an angel (the closest I remember reading was his mother saying something about the kids getting along like angels at home or some such) or anything about how which picture they released governed which picture the media would use.

Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rakeesh, I have an app on my phone, but it would be a lot faster, and more accurate, to just get an address than start the app and wait for it to come up. If GPS was even turned on....I frequently turn mine off unless using it as it saps the battery life horribly.

Also....it shows streets, but not addresses, unless I type an address in. It will show a general area, but not the street addresses as I walk or run past them.

Not saying a thing about the interview, as I haven't seen it yet, or defending anything at this point because of that. Just a simple fact about GPS and mapping functions. [Big Grin]

Posts: 15072 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually, that picture was put on shirts, on flyers, used by Al Sharpton and his followers, and was hand selected by his parents as the first image of Martin that was released.


And I personally saw 2-3 interviews as this first began picking up steam where they claimed he was an angel, a perfect kid, and specifically stated he had never been in any trouble. I live down near where it happened, and it was a while ago, but I don't remember when it aired. I'll see if I can find it later, maybe.

I have no issue with Zimmerman's character being questioned. I just think that Martin's should be too.....and just because you question it doesn't make you a racist.

Posts: 15072 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Actually, that picture was put on shirts, on flyers, used by Al Sharpton and his followers, and was hand selected by his parents as the first image of Martin that was released.
Sounds like a beef with Al Sharpton and his 'followers', not the parents. And has nothing to do with which image mainstream media used.

quote:
And I personally saw 2-3 interviews as this first began picking up steam where they claimed he was an angel, a perfect kid, and specifically stated he had never been in any trouble. I live down near where it happened, and it was a while ago, but I don't remember when it aired. I'll see if I can find it later, maybe.
Well, Google hasn't turned up anything like that on all sorts of variations on Trayvon Martin parents angel call him etc.

quote:
I have no issue with Zimmerman's character being questioned. I just think that Martin's should be too.....and just because you question it doesn't make you a racist.
Not only did I not say it did, but this has nothing to do with why his parents ought to be considered as having invited that consideration.

quote:
Rakeesh, I have an app on my phone, but it would be a lot faster, and more accurate, to just get an address than start the app and wait for it to come up. If GPS was even turned on....I frequently turn mine off unless using it as it saps the battery life horribly.

Also....it shows streets, but not addresses, unless I type an address in. It will show a general area, but not the street addresses as I walk or run past them.

It took less than five seconds for it to come up on 3G for me just now, and in any event the question wasn't between finding an address with your eyes easily and possible use of a smart phone, but that and heading out after (sorry, not after, just a big coincidence that's where Zimmerman was heading) in the direction of this suspicious pedestrian at night between houses, and *not* just up the street to a corner to see a sign.
Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think we could expand this defense to cover lots of new ground. The Americans didn't invade Iraq, they were hedging in the direction of Bagdahd, when the Repubkican guard ambushed them.

I didn't rob the bank. I walked into the bank, and towards the vault, and the security guard came out of nowhere, so I defended myself, and safeguarded the bank's money.

Posts: 9910 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A simply glance at a map of the crime seem shows you just how preposterous Zimmerman's explanation that he was just looking for the address is. He left his car a few yards from an intersection (where one would general expect to find a sign with the street name). The site where he shot Martin is a 100 yards in the opposite direction on a walk way that goes behind two rows of houses.

In the crime scene photos, house numbers are clearly visible from the street. As would normally be expected, no house numbers are visible from the sidewalk behind the houses where the fight took place.

I'd love to hear Zimmerman's explanation of why he was going through people's back yards looking for the address. If he ever takes the witness stand (which I suspect his lawyer will go to great lengths to avoid), the cross examination is going to be pure gold for the prosecution.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Zimmerman's statement that he left the car to be able to see a road sign / know which street he was on (in his complex which has all of three streets or so, that he knows by heart) is the least believable of all of his statements, and that's saying a lot.

quote:
One of the biggest inconsistencies was Zimmerman’s change in explanation about why he got out of his Honda Ridgeline.

He told a police dispatcher moments before the confrontation that he was following Trayvon but in later interviews with police, he said something else.

“I walked to find the street name, to find a street sign,” Zimmerman said.

Asked Serino: “How do you not know the three streets in your neighborhood [where] you've been living for three years?”

Zimmerman said he has a bad memory and suffers from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

How bad a memory are we talking?

Well..

http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-Martin-neighborhood-GE-map-w-sites-JPG2.jpg

Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It doesn't bother me a bit that he didn't know the name of the street. Lots of people don't know the names of the street in their own neighborhoods. I know people who've lived in a small towns their entire life who know every person in town and where they live but don't know the names of any of the streets.

My parent have lived in the same house since 1970. The street they live on makes a right angle turn next to my parents house and the name changes. I know the name of my parents street, I have no idea what the name is on the other street. I've walked down that street thousands of times. I can tell you who lived in each of the houses back in the 70s. I have no idea what the name of the street is.

What I find absolutely unbelievable is that a person looking for a street name would head down a foot path behind peoples houses rather than toward a very close by intersection where street signs are usually found.

That coupled with the fact that he got out of the car right when he'd told the operator that Martin had started running and that the direction he went was the same direction Martin went make the lie so bald faced obvious, I doubt even his mother would believe it.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He claims he never went more than 100 ft from his car. The spot where he shot Martin was over 300 feet from his car via the shortest path.


It seems down right ridiculous to make that kind of easily falsifiable claim.

Maybe Martin's a poor judge of distance, most people are, but why would he make the claim that he stayed close to his car at all since the distance from his car to the site of the shooting could be easily measured and no one's accused him of going further than that.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 10495

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Google map of the area with some of the major events plotted: http://goo.gl/maps/tyJE

Using Street View it appears that all of the intersections have street names posted on them.

Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To be fair, if I remember correctly there was a sidewalk in the area, at least I'd say five or six yards wide, between the rows of houses, so at that point I don't think he could be said to be going through back yards.

Of course, the problem with taking things like that into account is that it begs the question of just how it was Martin came to be considered suspicious, given that even by Zimmerman's own...fluctuating...account, he was walking on a high traffic area known in the neighborhood.

As for the street name, I could easily grant that someone who lived in a neighborhood wouldn't remember the names even of a few streets. A member of the neighborhood watch, less so. A 'captain' of same still less. That he would travel that way, in the same direction as Martin but not following him, that he wouldn't use his phone if he could have (which is likely), that he went all of that distance so he could know where he had been instead of just up a lit street...well.

In someone I trusted and knew to have good or even average judgment, I would think it a peculiar series of coincidences, but wouldn't be prepared to think they were lying. Zimmerman is not someone I trust or whose judgment I think is good-and even for people who believe Martin DID abruptly snap into lethal, even psychotic violence, Zimmerman isn't someone whose word and judgment should be trusted.

Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
according to zimmerman's re-enactment and testimony, his suspicion was from when he was following martin in his car and martin was walking on lawns by the street up in the top left corner of the map, where he had probably come in from between residences from outside the neighborhood, where he had just been purchasing the drink and candy.
Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
To be fair, if I remember correctly there was a sidewalk in the area, at least I'd say five or six yards wide, between the rows of houses, so at that point I don't think he could be said to be going through back yards.
My point was that one would not normally look for addresses on the back of houses not that he wasn't on a public thoroughfare. This is not a route he would have chosen if he were looking for addresses.

The crime scene photos confirm that the addresses are clearly visible on the side of the houses facing the road and that there are no addresses on the back side of the houses that face the side walk.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, it depends.....during a fight a lot of ground can be covered.

Looking forward to the trial.

Rakeesh, as I said, not everyone keeps GPS enabled on their phones. I takes me about 4 min (I just timed it) on Sprint's 3G network, and once I call it up it didn't provide a lot of detail.

I see a lot of issues with several of his statements, but this one isn't an issue with me.

Posts: 15072 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
Well, it depends.....during a fight a lot of ground can be covered..

Have you heard his testimony? He says he was instantly knocked down, pinned to the ground and straddled and that he was barely able to squirm his way a few feet off the sidewalk onto the grass.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Rakeesh, as I said, not everyone keeps GPS enabled on their phones. I takes me about 4 min (I just timed it) on Sprint's 3G network, and once I call it up it didn't provide a lot of detail.
A lot of people don't have a smart phone with GPS capability. I don't. Zimmerman didn't even have a job, so its unlikely he had all the latest toys.

But I don't see that that matters. He drove passed the street sign at the intersection while he was on the phone to 911. He parked his car a few yards from the street sign and then headed the opposite direction around behind the row of houses where there are (and would not normally be) any street signs or house numbers.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
Well, it depends.....during a fight a lot of ground can be covered..

Have you heard his testimony? He says he was instantly knocked down, pinned to the ground and straddled and that he was barely able to squirm his way a few feet off the sidewalk onto the grass.
No, I was working and haven't heard it yet. Plenty of questions raised, to be sure.
Posts: 15072 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
My point was that one would not normally look for addresses on the back of houses not that he wasn't on a public thoroughfare. This is not a route he would have chosen if he were looking for addresses.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were inaccurate, just to clarify was all. I agree it is pretty odd he would go that way if he were looking for a street name, to say the least.

------

quote:
Rakeesh, as I said, not everyone keeps GPS enabled on their phones. I takes me about 4 min (I just timed it) on Sprint's 3G network, and once I call it up it didn't provide a lot of detail.
Well like I've said at least twice now, I don't insist on it as damning or proof of untruth, only as another coincidence that's necessary to make Zimmerman's account true. So far we're up to, let's see...

That Zimmerman legitimately deemed Martin suspicious, in spite of his presence as a pedestrian on a known high traffic path, his inability to see Martin anywhere nearby (but who was close enough to ambush him so thoroughly), his ignorance of what street he was on in spite of there being so few and in light of his neighborhood watch captaincy and frequent activity in that role, the peculiarity of his decision to travel that route to find a street name while *not* also intending to follow Martin, and how strange it is for Martin to have simply snapped into this sort of violence for what Zimmerman described as no real reason at all, in spite of having no known history of such that we've seen yet.

For Zimmerman's accounting of himself to be both true and accurate, all of those oddities need to swing his way, whereas any one of them point towards him not just being a NW captain trying to do his duty but rather seeking a confrontation, and if some of them are not the way he says, are outright damning.

Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
capaxinfiniti
Member
Member # 12181

 - posted      Profile for capaxinfiniti           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A three-judge panel from the Court of Appeal has granted George Zimmerman a new judge, according to a CBS/AP report. The Olando Sentinel reports that the new judge is Debra S. Nelson.

Now that Judge Lester has been removed, Zimmerman is slightly closer to getting a fair trial.

Posts: 560 | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you say so. I suspect any fair trial will always result in a conviction.
Posts: 14314 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A close vote yes on one count, a vote no on another count, just to put it in perspective. Also that the appeal ruling doesn't validate Zimmerman's account of convenient negligence and stupidity with respect to money, either.
Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hmm....not sure that was bright on their part. Whatever.

I bet they challenge all of it, and lose. Including if they try for a new trial venue.

Posts: 15072 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The consensus prior to the appeal ruling I read from various legal pundits seems to match the split of the vote-that there might conceivably be a case for changing the judge, but that it was far from cut and dried and may just as well have been not enough.

Anyone who tells you that the judge being removed was the only reasonable, fair outcome to the appeal is thus selling something.

Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
or they always agreed with the judges who rules in favor.

I am not buying anything about this case. I just want to see it go to trial. Of course, if the SYG defense does apply, that won't even happen.

I bet it sees trial.

Posts: 15072 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-auction-gun-killed-trayvon-martin-article-1.2634153
Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JanitorBlade
Moderator
Member # 12343

 - posted      Profile for JanitorBlade   Email JanitorBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I don't care how you come down on Zimmerman and Martin's encounter. This is just in very poor taste.
Posts: 936 | Registered: Jun 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The act of auctioning the gun starts out at 'very poor taste'. The way Zimmerman is characterizing it takes it well into 'obscene'. (Not that I think you would disagree. It's just goddamn, the way he talks about the auction. Though there is some satisfaction in the way he has apparently been reduced to groveling for money and making a spectacle of himself. I wonder when the book will come out.)
Posts: 17105 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kmbboots
Member
Member # 8576

 - posted      Profile for kmbboots   Email kmbboots         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For a normal human being, killing someone - even if necessary - will be the worst thing they ever do. In Zimmerman's twisted mind, killing a boy was the high point of his life

[ May 12, 2016, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

Posts: 11078 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PSI Teleport
Member
Member # 5545

 - posted      Profile for PSI Teleport   Email PSI Teleport         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It shouldn't be surprising. It was probably some desperate need for attention and validation that led him to become a self-appointed neighborhood watchman in the first place.
Posts: 6348 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stone_Wolf_
Member
Member # 8299

 - posted      Profile for Stone_Wolf_   Email Stone_Wolf_         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He's the human equivalent of the product of an enima, no doubt, but as far as I remember, he was official neighborhood watch & not self appointed.
Posts: 6539 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
theamazeeaz
Member
Member # 6970

 - posted      Profile for theamazeeaz   Email theamazeeaz         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It looks like that depends on who you talk to. Google turns up hundreds of hits of articles who refer to him as "self-appointed".

The Daily best says this:

"Whether or not Zimmerman was an official neighborhood watchman or was self-appointed is now a matter of dispute. The National Sheriffs’ Association, which runs the Neighborhood Watch Program, said it has “no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program,” NSA executive director Aaron D. Kennard said in a statement."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/21/george-zimmerman-the-man-who-shot-trayvon-martin-profiled-by-family-and-neighbors.html

Other hits say that neighborhood meeting chose him (the only volunteer, and I wonder if the entire thing was his idea).

Posts: 1730 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hell yeah everyone I just self appointed myself neighborhood watch
Posts: 15288 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kmbboots
Member
Member # 8576

 - posted      Profile for kmbboots   Email kmbboots         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
According to his statement at trial, the president of the homeowners' association did not think there was a need for a neighborhood watch.
Posts: 11078 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
theamazeeaz
Member
Member # 6970

 - posted      Profile for theamazeeaz   Email theamazeeaz         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not surprised. I've served on a governing board for my grad student apartments and there is a large tendency to vest the person who comes in demanding a program with the responsibility of making it happen. Partly because the people in charge don't feel like it or want, but if someone does and is willing to do the work, then whatever, go ahead.
Posts: 1730 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 26 pages: 1  2  3  ...  22  23  24  25  26   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2