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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Are people still saying Global Warming isn't happening?

   
Author Topic: Are people still saying Global Warming isn't happening?
Hobbes
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Even just a couple years ago, I heard a lot of people on the other side of the issue (other side from me that is) saying that Global Warming wasn’t happening at all. As in: the planet is not getting warmer, ice is not melting (or not at a dangerous or alarming rate): it’s just not happening. But in the last year or two I’ve heard almost exclusively people debunking global warming from the stand-point of “whatever is happening is natural: it’s not our fault”. Though I’m sure they have a less sever view of the consequences of run-away warming than others, the argument seems to have moved from: “it’s happening” to: “it’s our fault” (making the presumable next step arguing “we can do something about it”). Is this just my experience and other have seen no real change that way, or does this seem to be a real trend?

Hobbes [Smile]

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MattP
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Well there are certainly people that still say that it's not happening at all, but you're right - as the data continues to flow in, the reality-denying has shifted to more plausible reasons for why we shouldn't address it.
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Samprimary
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welcome to the track

http://www.gocomics.com/tomthedancingbug/2012/11/08

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Stephan
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I was on the fence until I read that the first end of winter sunrise came to Greenland much earlier because of how much the horizon had melted.
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Jon Boy
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My favorite hurdle so far: maybe God wants it to get warmer.
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Dr Strangelove
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One thing I'm curious about (not curious enough to go look it up myself, mind you, but curious about) is whether or not we are past the proverbial point of no return? In other words, if we started treating the environment right and did away with global warming, maybe even threw some global cooling in, would the world go back to the way it was? And I'm not foolish enough to think that would happen quickly. I just mean at all. Or is it now more of a matter of dealing with the mess we've made and trying our hardest not to make it worse?
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Raymond Arnold
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From what I have heard lately, your last sentence basically sums up the situation.
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Aros
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It used to snow in Utah, but we were on the edge -- it COULD melt in the winter, but we had it most of the year. It never got too heavy or cold. My, what a few degrees can do.

Anecdotal evidence from the top of the state:
- Kids always have to wear coats, and it's usually a little snowy on Halloween. This year, it was 72 degrees.
- Last week, it was 55 degrees. At 10 PM.
- It's supposed to reach nearly 60 degrees this week. Even though it's raining.
- My first four winters (back) in Utah, I had to shovel snow year round. Last year it was only twice. And the snow didn't stick more than a few days.

Maybe it's just a trend. Maybe it'll get cold. I'll just have to appreciate the fact that we're getting lots of rain. In December. Or the fact that they've changed our gardening zone, and some people are growing tropical fruit successfully.

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bCurt
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Global climate change is a reality. Always has been. While we are warming, the cause is up for debate as many would agree and many choose to deny.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
It used to snow in Utah, but we were on the edge -- it COULD melt in the winter, but we had it most of the year. It never got too heavy or cold. My, what a few degrees can do.

Anecdotal evidence from the top of the state:
- Kids always have to wear coats, and it's usually a little snowy on Halloween. This year, it was 72 degrees.
- Last week, it was 55 degrees. At 10 PM.
- It's supposed to reach nearly 60 degrees this week. Even though it's raining.
- My first four winters (back) in Utah, I had to shovel snow year round. Last year it was only twice. And the snow didn't stick more than a few days.

Maybe it's just a trend. Maybe it'll get cold. I'll just have to appreciate the fact that we're getting lots of rain. In December. Or the fact that they've changed our gardening zone, and some people are growing tropical fruit successfully.

This resonates with me.

Think of how many pioneer lives could have been saved that second winter if they had pumped enough fossil fuels into the air sooner!

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theamazeeaz
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I was looking for a good climate change thread to bump and post this funny article in. I guess this one will do

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/01/16/2014-was-the-warmest-on-record-except-where-the-worlds-most-prominent-climate-change-skeptics-live/?wpisrc=nl_fix0&wpmm=1

There was a pretty recent OSC review article, where he states that the globe is currently cooling. Can't find it though.

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Lyrhawn
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Ummmmmmm.

Can you say Polar Vortex?

Warmest year on record my foot!

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Geraine
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Vegas used to get up to the 120's during the summer, now we only break 110. If this continues I won't be able to pan fry an egg on the pavement.

If that is global warming, let's keep it going, especially if it brings down temps here [Smile]

I haven't actually heard the term "global warming" for a few years now. It seems to have switched to "climate change."

What changed?

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Lyrhawn
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Some places get hotter, some get cooler, but on average the Earth gets hotter.

I think they changed it because some places actually are getting cooler and deniers were using it as evidence that since their little patch of land was getting cooler, global warming couldn't possibly be a thing.

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theamazeeaz
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That surprises me that Vegas isn't getting as hot during the summer. I know Phoenix is artificially hotter because of all the humans and concrete, and I would have assumed Vegas is the same way.
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Parkour
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quote:
Are people still saying Global Warming isn't happening?
conservatives are dumb enough (or paid off enough) to keep dying on this hill so yes.
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Jon Boy
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Vegas used to get up to the 120's during the summer, now we only break 110.

Can you provide any evidence for this? Because from what I can find, the record high for Vegas is only 117. In other words, it has never gotten into the 120s.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Vegas used to get up to the 120's during the summer, now we only break 110. If this continues I won't be able to pan fry an egg on the pavement.

If that is global warming, let's keep it going, especially if it brings down temps here [Smile]

I haven't actually heard the term "global warming" for a few years now. It seems to have switched to "climate change."

What changed?

These smack of (mis)remembered facts and rhetorical questions you know the answer to, Geraine. But on the chance they're serious, Jon Boy is right, temperatures above 117 Fahrenheit have never been recorded in Vegas in the past 72-73 years, much less regularly into the 120s during summer.

As for what changed, well depending on your slant there are different answers. The simplest one, stripped of politics from either direction, is that in a system as vast and complicated as the climate of a planet, the climate as a whole may very we'll be warming while not actually being warmer simultaeneosly, globally.

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FlyingCow
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http://www.climatestations.com/las-vegas/

Year by Year highlights for Las Vegas:
2006 – Warmest June in history.
2007 – Warmest year in history (71.0 F); earliest 90 F or higher, on 13 March; warmest November in history
2008 – In another otherwise warm year, sharp cool spell in late May; 3.6″ snowfall in December.
2009 – Warmest May and September in history.
2010 – July warmest calendar month in Las Vegas history (96.2 F); earliest 110 F or higher, on 6 June.
2012 – Warmest Calendar Year to date (71.2 F)
2014 – Warmest Calendar Year in history (72.0 F)

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Dogbreath
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No no no, Flying Cow, that's *statistics*. What you really need to prove your point is dubious anecdotes.

That being said, we're having perhaps the coldest winter in history here. It's gotten so bad we've had to wear sweaters. Sweaters!

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Parkour
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I haven't actually heard the term "global warming" for a few years now. It seems to have switched to "climate change."

What changed?

Global warming denial makes people too stupid to understand the ramifications of global warming if they can't translate it directly to that it is hotter or drier right where they are and they say imbecilic things like "wasn't as hot here durrr so much for global warming".

So sometimes it's changed to a different thing which is easier for the fragile little minds to comprehend even as global temperatures continue to rise.

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theamazeeaz
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Hahaha 58 degrees poor babies.

I like the scary pic snow on Mauna Kea. Nice try, newspaper. That is *normal*, and they know it.

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Parkour
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"so what happened to the global cooling scare? huh huh huh"
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Vegas used to get up to the 120's during the summer, now we only break 110. If this continues I won't be able to pan fry an egg on the pavement.

Meanwhile in reality the opposite of what you are claiming is happening and Vegas is documentably getting hotter
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Dogbreath
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quote:
Originally posted by theamazeeaz:
Hahaha 58 degrees poor babies.

Well, in my defense I live on the side of a mountain (or very tall hill) where it's both colder and windier.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:

I haven't actually heard the term "global warming" for a few years now. It seems to have switched to "climate change."

What changed?

People willfully misinterpreted and misrepresented the findings of climate scientists by pointing out that it was sometimes colder, in some places, despite the Earth being overall warmer. Nevermind that these colder periods and or specific areas that experience cooling are predicted by the same model that predicts overall warming.

IE: "Global warming my butt Mable, it's freezing out there today!"

So we started calling it global climate change, because that is less easy for conservative talk show hosts to misrepresent and lie about to their gullible listeners.

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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:

Global warming deniers form a sliding scale of denial which is outlined below — in general these beliefs are designed to prevent action being taken.

1. Not only deny global warming, but insist the opposite is occurring (taken from the Conservapedia homepage). This probably goes beyond denialism and verges on the psychotic.

2. Simply deny global warming is happening[27] — and maintain that no action is necessary — an increasingly uncommon position.

3. Global warming is happening, but it’s not caused by humanity — so we don’t have to do anything.

4. Global warming is happening, and it is in part caused by humanity, but mostly it's caused by solar activity — so we don't have to do anything.

5. Global warming is happening, and it is in part caused by humanity, but predicting future emission levels is equivalent to astrology — so we don't have to do anything, Ehrlich![28]

6. Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, but it may be a good thing — so we don’t have to do anything.[29]

7. Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it may be a bad thing, but there are still more serious crises that deserve higher priority — so we don't have to do anything.

8. Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, but China and India aren't doing anything — so we don’t have to do anything.[30]

9. Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, and maybe China and India are willing to do something, but I've heard about this new energy source/technology that's going to completely solve the problem in 10-20 years — so we don't have to do anything.

10. Global warming is happening, it is caused by humanity, it is a bad thing, but even if China and India do something it’s too late for us to do anything and it would cost us a shitload of dough — so we don’t have to do anything.

11. (There is an hypothesized eleventh step, "Global warming was happening, it was caused by humanity, it is a very bad thing and previous governments could and should have done something, but it's too late now!")

-RationalWiki.

I humorously caught a friend of mine saying #11 and got him to back peddle.

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Boy:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
Vegas used to get up to the 120's during the summer, now we only break 110.

Can you provide any evidence for this? Because from what I can find, the record high for Vegas is only 117. In other words, it has never gotten into the 120s.
I've personally seen temperatures outside near my house in the 120's, even as recently as 2013, though I live on the east side of town near the mountain. I've seen temperatures differ quite a bit from where they take the temperatures (normally the airport or strip area) and the east side of town.

Just looked it up.... Yep, taken at McCarren airport.

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Rakeesh
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That proves it!
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Jon Boy
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I think I missed the part where you provided any kind of evidence, Geraine.
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GaalDornick
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Evidence Shmevidence
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
You basically have to get sources from Geraine pretty much every time. His presentation of specific facts or ideas is flawed, I think, the majority of the time.

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Like I'm serious we're running on full on maybe the tenth time you have made a very specific claim about something that immediately raised suspicions that you were misrepresenting something or repeating a well-known falsehood.


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Dogbreath
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
I've personally seen temperatures outside near my house in the 120's, even as recently as 2013, though I live on the east side of town near the mountain. I've seen temperatures differ quite a bit from where they take the temperatures (normally the airport or strip area) and the east side of town.

Just looked it up.... Yep, taken at McCarren airport.

Well now, this is interesting. How frequently do you check the temperature outside your house? What time(s) of day? Do you record temperatures for the same periods of time every year? What sort of equipment do you use? Is your thermometer exposed to direct sunlight during a portion of the day? (This can make readings highly inaccurate)

Or by "seen" do you mean a weather station near your house? Do you mind sharing the name of it?

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Jon Boy
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I'm guessing he drove past a bank that had the temperature displayed on a sign in the parking lot. We all know that those are super-reliable and expertly calibrated pieces of scientific equipment.
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Parkour
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So temperatures are generally rising in all official recorded temperatures for the city but falling in geraine's general vicinity in the city.

Yeah sounds plausible!

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Elison R. Salazar
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Do we need six people to bandwagon on this?
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Dogbreath
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I wasn't on the bandwagon, I was asking a serious question.
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