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Author Topic: Thoughts On The New Xbox?
BlackBlade
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Microsoft's reveal is streaming live right now.

Link.

Will post my thoughts on it later. If it's true you cannot play used games on it, that will pretty much decide my not getting it down the road.

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Stone_Wolf_
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Someone posted an animated gif of a picture of a topless girl in the comment's section...golly gee wiz bang.
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Elison R. Salazar
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I won't be getting it for a long time [Frown] $$$

Hopefully it stays compatible with my version of XNA.

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BlackBlade
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I'm actually laughing at all the Kaz Hirai gifs.
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Geraine
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I was extremely dissapointed. I own all of the current gen systems as well as a Wii-U, however over the past six months there hasn't been an Xbox exclusive that I have really wanted to play. I feel like the PS3 simply has better exclusives lately, especially with games such as The Last of Us (Naughtydog Studios) and Beyond Two Souls (Creators of Heavy Rain) coming out.

I felt that Microsoft went too far with the Xbox One. They are fragmenting their time too much between gaming, TV, and other forms of entertainment. I bought an Xbox, PS3, etc for games. If I want to switch to TV, I can simply use my remote to change inputs. Making it easier to do so is nice, however it isn't anything groundbreaking, as cell phones are on the cusp of already doing things like this.

I suppose the Xbox One will be great for those that are into sports and sports games. Other than that the only thing regarding the TV aspects of the Xbox One I am looking forward to is the Halo TV series.

On the gaming side of things, they didn't really tell us anything to get super excited for. We got told there were exclusives coming, but didn't actually get to see them. I found it strange to end the conference with Call of Duty: Ghosts, as while the DLC is coming to the XBO (Can I call it that?) first, the game is multiplatform. We were also told we were getting a gameplay trailer, but there wasn't any gameplay shown. The concept looks cool, but the graphics were only average, certainly not on the same level as Battlefield 4.

I am holding out hope for the XBO, but right now I think I'll be picking up a PS4. The studios they work with, such as Naughty Dog, and (especially) Quantic Dream are making games that are helping bridge the gap between gaming and TV, film, and art. I'll take that over another Call of Duty game any day.

[ May 21, 2013, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Geraine ]

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MattP
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My Xbox is my media hub, so I'm OK with the focus on consumption of TV and movies. What I don't like is the attention to traditional cable. Cable TV with a program guide is as old as the first generation Xbox and putting it directly on the console is not worth much to me. What I want is a really great experience for exploring and consuming streaming content from a variety of providers as well as my own local content, which probably won't happen any time soon as Netflix will never agree to share real estate with Hulu and vice-versa. So for now we're stuck with isolated "apps" for each one.

I'm happy to get a spec bump and look forward to prettier games. It'll also be interesting to see if the new Kinect experience is more compelling. But nothing was particularly exciting. I'll probably buy one as well as a PS4 but I'm not dying to get either of them.

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scifibum
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I wonder if I'll get an Xbox One any closer to release than I got an Xbox 360. Probably not. So I'm probably looking at 2016.
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happymann
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How do people feel about the Kinect vs Move? I was completely unimpressed with the Move but (full disclosure) I haven't tried the Kinect. However, I have heard nothing but awesomeness about the Kinect. Therefore, I have been looking forward to the Xbox One because Kinect is integrated.

Also I would like my entertainment to be more integrated (my music library, which is expansive; my movie collection, also expansive; etc.).

So, all other things being "close enough" I didn't like the Move (has it changed since I tried it out 2 years ago?). I'll be going Xbox.

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scifibum
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quote:
Originally posted by happymann:
Also I would like my entertainment to be more integrated (my music library, which is expansive; my movie collection, also expansive; etc.).

Does your apartment smell of rich mahogany?
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AchillesHeel
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So the ability and choice of "Always On Games" has been passed off to the game creators. Microsoft would prefer that future games utilize this, but have ostensibly shifted any and all blame to companies like EA. I am not a fan of the always on model, so this makes me really hesitant about buying the XBO.

Another problem I have is the Kinect integration. They have rebuilt it, made it more responsive, more intelligent and loads more useful in day to day use of the console. But they have also made it mandatory. It is still a peripheral, the big difference is that the XBO requires the Kinect to function. I know I have issues with paranoia, but the requisite of having a truly impressive level of technology that can map, record audio/video, determine physical status and mood seems like it would bother me with or without my mild paranoia. The idea of having a near-futuristic surveillance camera with a devoted high power computer in my living room is weird.

Their reluctance to release further information about used games is worrying, as it may be a deal-breaker for me. One report is that when you get a new game disc it will install the whole thing onto your hard-drive, but if someone else uses the disc to install the game on their console they will have to pay a fee. In short, you don't own the game you bought. It's like a seven pound itunes account, you will not able to use the physical copy of what you bought without the permission of the company that you bought the console from. Playstation is looking quite nice at the moment.

In short, it looks like I'm going to play all the games I find interesting for Xbox 360 as they go down in price and will either jump straight to the Playstation 4 or perhaps the discounted PS3 and play out all the best games it has to offer before catching up with PS4. So much of what I'm reading about the XBO is amazing, and too much of it is bothersome and controlling.

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happymann
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
Originally posted by happymann:
Also I would like my entertainment to be more integrated (my music library, which is expansive; my movie collection, also expansive; etc.).

Does your apartment smell of rich mahogany?
I feel like I missed something. Maybe I didn't convey what I was trying to convey. I meant, I would like my entertainment to be more in one spot/accessible from one location, or something like that. Your response has now left me utterly confused.
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scifibum
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Sorry, just ribbing you. I was thinking of Ron Burgundy's description of his book collection.
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MattP
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quote:
How do people feel about the Kinect vs Move?
I like the voice navigation which is technically a Kinect feature even though it shouldn't require any special hardware. The motion detection stuff is hit or miss. With some games it works really well and is a lot of fun. With others it's nothing but frustration. I'm hoping with the updated version that there will be more hit and less miss. I also have Move, but haven't found a much compelling use for it.
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DustinDopps
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These two links have made me go from "early adopter" to "not going to get one":

http://kotaku.com/you-will-be-able-to-trade-xbox-one-games-online-micros-509140825

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

I think they are really misjudging hardcore gamers. I spend thousands of dollars each year on video games, but that's because I can trade in old games to purchase new ones. And I have a great internet connection, but not all of the time.

Thanks, but no thanks, Microsoft.

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Geraine
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Some more information is coming out that has me even more discouraged...

The XBO will not work without the Kinect plugged in. I move my systems around the house. Usually I have my 360 plugged into one of my computer monitors, however sometimes when my wife is working late on her laptop I'll move my Xbox into the bedroom so that while she works I can be next to her and not be bored. Having to lug that huge box with the Kinect as well would be annoying.

There is also a "Fee" if you want multiple profiles on your Xbox to be able to utilize the same game. This isn't a problem for me since I'm the only one that uses it. For families with more than one player however this is going to be a disaster. Back when I was single and living at home, my brothers and I would all have our own XBOX live ID's. We would all log into Halo and play our own characters, have our own saves, profiles, etc.

Well, now you can't. If your family purchases a new game but your brother wants to use it on his profile, it is going to cost a fee, something Microsoft has said will be equal to the retail price of the game.

From IGN:

Microsoft executive Phil Harrison, in an interview with Kotaku, has some potentially bad news. The aforementioned 'fee' to play games on a second account? Full MSRP. So unless you want to use your account for your entire family, you'll be dishing out an extra $40, $50, $60 for siblings or friends to try out new games. Harrison did tell Kotaku that his company plans to allow gamers to 'trade' their used games online somehow - though declined to get into further details.

This just keeps looking worse and worse. [Frown]

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Samprimary
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the pc gaming master race looks down from upon high with pity and bewilderment. what strange creatures, they opine, from the terraces of their sky-cities. do they do it to themselves? do they desire this? can they be helped from out of their serfdom?
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BlackBlade
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Yeah, those were the two key questions I had, and neither were discussed in the presentation, for what seems like obvious reasons now.

I'm sure Gamestop is *so* comforted that Microsoft will setup some sort of system where you can sell your games online. :\

Man, those are just two major blows to the system for me. It's a shame Nintendo didn't find a way to put something bigger under the WiiU's hood, because it could have laughed all the way to the bank for the next 5 years.

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Lyrhawn
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I'm usually a pretty late adopter, but unless something dramatically changes, I don't think I'm touching the new Xbox with a 10 foot pole.

I'll consider the PS4 maybe a year or so after it comes out, but all this new crap to try and bilk money out of gamers is a huge turnoff for me, both because I simply don't have the money and because I fundamentally dislike the naked greed behind all of it. They're trying to squeeze blood from a stone, and it's probably just going to shrink their profits even more as casual gamers like me abandon console gaming in droves.

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Jeff C.
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I'll get it for the Halos and the exclusives, but I feel really bummed about the recent news (as in, post-conference today) that if you buy a pre-owned game, you have to pay a "fee" to play it on your gamertag. That's absurd to me.

Anyway, the news about a Halo TV show is great. I can't wait to see that.

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
the pc gaming master race looks down from upon high with pity and bewilderment. what strange creatures, they opine, from the terraces of their sky-cities. do they do it to themselves? do they desire this? can they be helped from out of their serfdom?

It is a good time to be a PC gamer indeed.

I just wish more people would wake up and realize it so more games like Heavy Rain and Fahrenheit would be made for or ported to the PC

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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
I'll get it for the Halos and the exclusives, but I feel really bummed about the recent news (as in, post-conference today) that if you buy a pre-owned game, you have to pay a "fee" to play it on your gamertag. That's absurd to me.

Anyway, the news about a Halo TV show is great. I can't wait to see that.

This is the only good news.
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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
I'll get it for the Halos and the exclusives, but I feel really bummed about the recent news (as in, post-conference today) that if you buy a pre-owned game, you have to pay a "fee" to play it on your gamertag. That's absurd to me.

Apparently this isn't true, yet MS is still in the shitter for allowing the use of always online DRM.

quote:
Anyway, the news about a Halo TV show is great. I can't wait to see that.
I'm excited as well, bummed we won't ever see Neil Blomkamp's Halo.
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happymann
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Sorry, just ribbing you. I was thinking of Ron Burgundy's description of his book collection.

Just wanted to say how ashamed I am. This is, like, the tenth time that I haven't gotten an Anchorman reference. Apparently I don't know that movie as well as I thought. [Frown]
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happymann
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quote:
Originally posted by T:man:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
I'll get it for the Halos and the exclusives, but I feel really bummed about the recent news (as in, post-conference today) that if you buy a pre-owned game, you have to pay a "fee" to play it on your gamertag. That's absurd to me.

Apparently this isn't true, yet MS is still in the shitter for allowing the use of always online DRM.

All the places I've looked seem to indicate that there isn't 100% agreement yet from the people at Microsoft that there definitely ISN'T going to be a "fee." Can I get a source for this?

In regards to a used "fee," one reviewer compared it to a used car. He said that others are up in arms because they're allowed to sell their car used, but he says that cars lose value over time whereas games still look the same used or new. I think a better analogy would be used books. All the words are still there so you still get the same experience, but we're allowed to buy/sell used books. All of this, of course, could be a non-issue, but until it's official then Microsoft has this storm to deal with.

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BlackBlade
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The fact is they didn't have a uniform response for two *huge* questions they were fully aware everyone wanted to know going in. They either needed to say, "We are getting feedback from gamers and vendors and do not have a final decision on this. We expect to have one by E3. But we are listening."

Instead they said, "Yes always online, wait no, and fees for playing on other people's systems, wait no."

[ May 22, 2013, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]

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Geraine
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Yeah, there are now conflicting stories regarding the fees. It still does not give me much confidence and I think they will implement some sort of system, but hopefully it will be fairly inexpensive. I've noticed many companies have an online pass that used game purchasers have to pay in order to play online. Perhaps they will simply go that route.

While I don't like that, it is still a better option than paying the full MSRP to play a used game.

I was kind of let down that the 500GB hard drive will not be removeable. Since it seems all XBO games have to be installed prior to playing them, it is unknown how many games you will be able to fit. Some Blu-Ray games can be 40GB each. It is nice Microsoft is allowing you to plug in an external drive for storage, but having to purchase another hard drive that you would need to move around with your kinect as well is going to get annoying. I'd much rather buy a 2TB internal and throw it into the XBO.

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DustinDopps
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One of the links I posted above has a quote from a Microsoft rep about the fees.

I don't understand why people think PC gaming is superior to consoles. With a console I don't have to worry about if the game will play. I don't have to buy a new graphics card. My family can use the computer while I play a game. I get to use a big 50" television to play (which is possible with a PC, yes, but not always easy to do).

To put it another way, consoles make things simpler. I'm all for having choices, but when it comes to my hobbies, I'd rather not have to worry about *if* things will work.

I remember when I bought Warcraft 3. I wasn't sure my PC had enough power to run it, so I bought it anyway. Everything worked fine except when the 'heroes' came on-screen. My computer couldn't render them for some reason, so they were invisible and just showed up as shadows on the ground. It was playable, but frustrating. I gave up on having a powerful PC after that experience.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I don't understand why people think PC gaming is superior to consoles.
I have my HTPC hooked up to my 50" television. I don't worry if my games play, because I built the HTPC to play those games (and media, of course). I have six computers, so my family can use any one of them while I'm playing a game (or use a tablet to log into the terminal server, if they need to).

If you don't know what you're doing, consoles are a good compromise.

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DustinDopps
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It's not a matter of knowledge or understanding, Tom. It's a matter of going through the work and expense of keeping up-to-date.

Oddly enough, console games are becoming more PC-like as time goes on. It used to be that a game worked straight out of the box. Now when I put a game in my XBox or Playstation, I expect an update to download and install before I can play it. And don't get me started on having to pay for DLC...

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Jeff C.
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It's simple. If used games require a fee to play them, I'll just buy the third party games for my PS4. If they're exclusives, I'm fine with paying full price, because if I'm going to buy an exclusive like Halo, Gears of War, or Fable (note: of these three, I only like Halo, so take that as you will), then I'll most likely buy them new anyway. I always buy Halo brand new because I want to play it on launch, which is why I pay the fee. I also want to support that franchise so that they keep making stories in that world. However, I'll never buy a game I know nothing about brand new. Even if people say it's great, I'd prefer to play it for cheap. And since I have no experience with the new franchise, I'll have no reason to care if I don't get to play it (note: the exception to this was Ni No Kuni).

I'm predicting Microsoft will make a lot of money in doing this change, but they'll also lose a lot of business. I'm guessing they'll make up for the loss, but it still bothers and directly affects me.

We'll see soon, hopefully. E3's right around the corner.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by DustinDopps:
One of the links I posted above has a quote from a Microsoft rep about the fees.

I don't understand why people think PC gaming is superior to consoles. With a console I don't have to worry about if the game will play. I don't have to buy a new graphics card. My family can use the computer while I play a game. I get to use a big 50" television to play (which is possible with a PC, yes, but not always easy to do).

People think PC gaming is superior to console gaming because PC gaming IS superior to console gaming. Even when PC used to be the 'premium' option (meaning that it was considerably more expensive to maintain a gaming PC than it would be to just settle on one of the consoles) it was superior. It isn't even a premium option anymore, and PC gaming is, on the whole, less expensive than console gaming. Extremely less expensive for anybody who pirates, but significantly less expensive even for people who purchase 100% of their games.

What console gaming has is that it is the simpler option for people who don't have much savvy with personal computers, and also for families that can take advantage of bell and whistle knacks like motion capture or wiimotes.

PC's don't even require a whole lot of knowledge or savvy anymore anyway. You mention that with consoles you 'get to use a big 50" television' — like, we've had the exact same HDMI conversation on this forum. It is literally so easy to connect a computer to television output that I taught my mom how to do it in less time than it took me to teach her how to use netflix on a console.

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Elison R. Salazar
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Also PC games have better multiplayer options and superior graphics at this time. For example iirc most of the console versions of recent FPS were locked to 32 player maps while the PC version had 64 player. Also the "1080p" resolution is balls on a console, PC's have much better and more complex options.

Also, most console games you can't mod or have huge difficulty, like with Skyrim iirc.

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Swampjedi
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Not to derail - for gaming PCs on large displays, is there a good / standard way yet to properly scale UI elements? Last time I tried it, I couldn't read any of the text from my couch.

Back to the XBO - most of the games that I buy new are from series that I was introduced to by borrowing someone else's copy. If there's a substantial fee for used games/borrowing copies, I'm out completely. PS4 is actually looking pretty good.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
for gaming PCs on large displays, is there a good / standard way yet to properly scale UI elements?
Sadly, there's no standard. [Frown] Many games are now getting smarter about this, and both Steam and Windows Live are pushing hard for some kind of consensus on it, but it's still up to the individual game to handle. Some do pretty well; some require mods; and some basically require that you sit closer to the TV, like Crusader Kings II.
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MattP
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I prefer console gaming in my house because I have several kids, some fairly young, and consoles are basically plug-and-play gaming appliances - entertainment toasters. Also we have multiple screens and our three Xbox 360s cost about the same as a single low-end gaming PC.

If I was the only gamer in the house I'd probably use a PC.

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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
for gaming PCs on large displays, is there a good / standard way yet to properly scale UI elements?
Sadly, there's no standard. [Frown] Many games are now getting smarter about this, and both Steam and Windows Live are pushing hard for some kind of consensus on it, but it's still up to the individual game to handle. Some do pretty well; some require mods; and some basically require that you sit closer to the TV, like Crusader Kings II.
You play CKII? Wanna join my weekly saturday game ^_^
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TomDavidson
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Only if we all play Western Europeans. [Wink]
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Elison R. Salazar
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Well its already in progress (1269 iirc) and there's plenty of Europeans. Spain is owned by a Muslim Republic though, and France is also Muslim...

Only you can turn this around!

Also the Il Khanate are kicking our asses in the east.

Map: http://i42.tinypic.com/ah76.png

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DustinDopps
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quote:
Only you can turn this around!
LOL.
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steven
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quote:
Originally posted by DustinDopps:
quote:
Only you can turn this around!
LOL.
He's like a geek version of Smokey The Bear.
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TomDavidson
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Am I reading that map right? Does Russia really rule the south of Ireland? And is Italy really divided between two Muslim empires and Sweden? [Smile]
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Jeff C.
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This discussion has derailed into dangerous territory.
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Elison R. Salazar
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Am I reading that map right? Does Russia really rule the south of Ireland? And is Italy really divided between two Muslim empires and Sweden? [Smile]

Russia does not rule southern Ireland, that's actually Mauretania (Morocco). Empire of Spain is a Muslim Republic and Mauretania is its vassal. Russia doesn't own overseas stuff.

Yes to Italy, technically sweden is the Holy Roman Empire and originally Denmark.

The game is tomorrow at 10 AM EST, should I poke you on facebook? [Smile]

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Kwea
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Is CKII any good? It sounds interesting...
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Elison R. Salazar
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It's really fun, also there's a Game of Thrones mod.
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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
Is CKII any good? It sounds interesting...

Play Victoria 2 instead, less fingerpaint and incest.
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Elison R. Salazar
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Woah woah woah, lets not get hasty now.
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T:man
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I'm not making any judgements, hey it's a useful way to keep titles within the dynasty.

(I just want some consistent V2 MP, my other MP games never get past 1860)

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Samprimary
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I have no idea what to think of the xbone reveal anymore. it's gone off so, so terribly that I can't think of any parallels.
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Jeff C.
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Well as long as the launch isn't a massive bomb like the Wii U, I'm sure they'll do fine.
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