posted
I was really annoyed by the way Amon turned out to be a moustache twirling super villain; I was really hoping he did have a legit political complaint against benders.
This season, it seems obvious who the villain is; I really hope he is who he says he is. I mean, it could be really interesting: in a lot of martial arts stories with a spiritual side, the villain is always on the side of technology and modernity, and the hero guides the people back to a more spiritual, "natural" life.
I would be pleased beyond measure if the good guys' stance ultimately turned out to be "No, we like our solstice ferry wheel just fine.. Times have changed, manipulative uncle guy."
Posts: 1515 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
But Amon did have a grudge against benders, he hated the power his bending gave him over his little brother, hated his father for wanting to use that power to hurt more people. I think the point of both brothers was that despite fighting against what their father had wanted they both inevitably were exacting his revenge on the city and the Avatar. Tarlok was remorseful in the end while Amon was driven crazy by his obsession with power and the distribution of it. In the boat, Amon literally proposed they do exactly what their father did thirty years ago, and then let his brother kill them both. Amon was ashamed of his folly, in that moment he would rather die than be like the father who made him his baby brother. /rant
The uncle twist would be a copy and paste Tarlok, shifty from the word go and doing it for good reasons, again.
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But your description is about his daddy issues. I wanted him to actually be a leader of a group of people who thought benders were totalitarian overlords; they gestured in that direction with the guy on the soapbox in an early episode.
If season 2's uncle were a genuine traditionalist who genuinely thought the South had lost its way, he'd be interesting and cool, because as I said, usually villains are on the side of technology.
Basically, I want this season to be about modernity vs premodern traditionalism, and I want the good guys to be modernists. But I doubt that will happen: the Uncle will turn out to be a power-mad schemer and all this stuff about protecting tradition is just a cover for his plans of world domination.
And that is what will make him a copy/paste of Amon.
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If it were up to me I would let it be a big bad spirit that came to the physical world when Aang died (the Avatar is the bridge after all) and has been building power from angry spirits to reach some goal. Let's say that the big spirit can possess a human at great threat to itself and forced Korra's father to destroy that forest, making a bunch of angry spirits. Maybe the big spirit possessed her uncle too, making him convince Korra to release more spirits back into the world for it to turn. Eventually using Tenzin as well but being fought off by his pure spirit (air bending is supposed to be the closest to the spirit right?) taking Pemma and killing her body as revenge.
Thus reinforcing the creators statement that the Air Bender Tribe will never flourish, the numbers will always be small. And in contrast to having a power the world can't fully adjust to, they should have tragic lives to balance the characters in the future.
This is why I do not make shows for Nickelodeon.
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I really hope that the uncle is not causing these spirit problems just to fix them, and didn't unleash the spirits that attacked after the forest burned, etc.
It seems so obvious that it must not be true, you know?
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But it is still a kids show despite Bolin's bdsm relationship.
So simple plot lines are always an option. Maybe that was the hold up? Maybe the creative team wanted a smarter show but Nick demanded it have an easier story for the kids.
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I haven't seen the newest episode, but I just caught up to episode 9 and I am loving it. This is what I had hoped the first season would be. Honestly, watching the origins of the first avatar, visiting the southern water tribe, and watch more of Tenzin's family in the air temple has been awesome.
It just really sucks that there's only two weeks left until it's over (two one hour episodes). I wouldn't mind waiting another year to see more, but I think we all know it'll probably be like two years until we get more...
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: So a lot has happened, but most importantly..... HE came back.
And I'm not talking about Jesus.
That was a pretty amazing episode.
I was sort of like "Really? They found a way to get him in there?" But then I realized I missed him too much to give a damn about how unlikely it was. I miss Mako. Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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So I just watched this episode and I have to say, I got kind of emotional. This show is so good, and in my opinion this season is way better than the last one. I love the extra development time with Tenzin's family and the Spirit World. Iroh was especially awesome.
God I can't believe there's only a few episodes left!
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Tenzin at the end of the last episode asking what happened to Jinora tugged at the heart strings.
Otherwise I agree with Sam. This season has been terrible, by and large, with moments of brilliance.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I was sort of like "Really? They found a way to get him in there?" But then I realized I missed him too much to give a damn about how unlikely it was. I miss Mako.
I actually thought it made a lot of sense, given to what extent he's been foreshadowed as having an (as yet mostly unexplained) connection to the spirit world.
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While Beginnings was the best pair of episodes in the entire Legend of Korra run, it just showcased for me that the writing team loves their deus ex machina, or at least don't like properly foreshadowing things. On two separate occasions, they said that a spirit possessing a human for too long will cause the death of said human. But at the final battle between Vaatu and Wan/Raava, Raava possesses Wan for too long... and Wan doesn't die. Obviously, the Harmonic Convergence had something to do with it, but without the slightest hint of foreshadowing, it just comes out of left field.
I suppose it's not fair to analyze things like this without the second season being fully over, but the writing team has a knack for relying on deus ex machina, i.e. Aang learning energy-bending from the lion-turtle at the series finale of Avatar: The Last Airbender and Korra learning energy-bending from spirit-Aang in Book One: Air.
Beginnings felt to me like a self-contained story, and it's a shame it didn't have tighter plotting. Also, I'm sad that we didn't get to see any Water or Earth peoples, only the portions where Wan received the elements from their respective lion-turtles.
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His connection is explained, but not in the show. When his son was dying, he actually went to the Spirit World in order to find a cure. Unfortunately, he never did. That is why he can see Aang when he's in his spirit form and why he has always had such a strong connection.
Anyway, I agree with you guys that the first half of the season was subpar, but I think it's still good television. The whole Civil War stuff was kind of mediocre, and Korra's attitude has completely sucked, but it all sort of makes sense in the context of what is happening.
Once they started really getting into the Spirit stuff, like the backstory of the first Avatar (which may actually be my favorite episode out of both shows), things started to get really good. This last episode was especially awesome, showing us a young and scared Korra, a wise old Iroh, and then that ending. Just...awesome.
Here's hoping the season finishes strong. I wonder how long it will take them to get the next one out. Probably over a year again, but we'll see.
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Season 2 is officially over. They posted the final two episodes on Nick's website. Has anyone watched them? If so, what did you think?
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Much better than last season, Korra found a place in her stasus as Avatar that wasn't there in the defeat of Amon. This time she really did do something that only the Avatar could do.
What was up with Jinora?
Posts: 2302 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Whoever said that they love their deus ex machina sure is right. They basically told her the same thing people told Aang, but Korra used that same advice to create a giant spirit kaiju.
But I have to admit they certainly took things in a different direction than I expected at the end there. I've long thought that she's actually a pretty terrible Avatar given her maturity level and what not, but I think we were spoiled by Aang's dramatically advanced maturity and inner peace. She seems to have finally made a bit of a leap, though she didn't really earn it, it was spirited into her, and only because Tenzin happened to learn the exact same lesson five minutes earlier.
What's going on with Jinora is interesting. We've never seen a regular character with that level of understanding of the spirit world, except maybe Swami Patik. I hope they follow up on that. She ended up being vital.
But they've totally changed the nature of the show now. There's an Avatar state, but there's no calling on the Avatars of the past anymore. That wildly shifts things, in ways I do and do not like. Past Avatars were a way to not just dispense advice, but also inform us on the world's history. Now we'll never talk to Aang again (until they magic up a new way to do it. I'm sure he's never REALLY gone). But I kind of like that they're starting fresh. She's a new, one-off Avatar for a different kind of world, no longer the spirit bridge, so what is she? The Enforcer of world peace? She has to redefine her role.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I hope we can get the Spirits to shift over to something akin to Japanese Youkai, that seemed hinted at in Beginnings, that Humans and a Spirit could merge, though this was almost nearly always fatal. Physical spirits would be interesting.
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We know spirits can be physical. They can even be fish who store a good portion of their life force in blonde women.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: We know spirits can be physical. They can even be fish who store a good portion of their life force in blonde women.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: We know spirits can be physical. They can even be fish who store a good portion of their life force in blonde women.
What?
"My girlfriend turned into the moon."
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
White hair is now considered blonde, blonde populace and average age soar. Gentlemen are thoroughly confused.
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I liked that they were willing to shake things up in big ways for the characters and the setting. Not sure how much I like all of the changes themselves.
Liked the pacing and tension of the simultaneous struggles in the last two episodes. Liked the absurdity (to an extent) of the mover episode. Liked the return of a form of energy bending.
Didn't like that Bumi's role was firmly established as bumbling but miraculously lucky idiot.* Didn't like the way they introduced an enormous threat or problem that should've been the focus of an entire season (such as the convergence business) in the last 3rd of it, and resolved it in only about 15m. Didn't like the way Police Chief Whatshername's response to Mako's frame-up was basically, "Oh, sure-he's actually a lying gangster this whole time for...well I'm not really sure why, but throw him in the slammer and wash my hands of things."
Didn't like how the President's response to Korra's 'hey, world-ending threat here' was 'need to keep troops at home for when the world ends, rather than working to avert it'. The way the story unfolded, had the RC military traveled south, they would've been able to storm the Spirit World pretty handily and avert the whole convergence crisis entirely. Good baffling call, Mista Prez.
Liked that they were willing to break up the main love interest. I've often been fonder of Sasami anyway. Liked the love angle they played with Bolin. At times it irritated me, but somehow I ended up enjoying it. Liked Jinora's role, and that Tenzin had to come to grips with his distorted view of himself and all the baggage of 'last hope of Airbenders' etc.
Liked and disliked that Uncle Bad Guy whose name I can't remember how to spell was apparently annihilated. Would've liked to see him clapped in irons and stripped of bending a la the Fire Lord. Liked that they returned to the energy bending angle, but disliked that the whole Tree of Time bit was if I'm remembering right completely unmentioned until the last 15m or so of show.
*Seriously, this really annoyed me. Aside from liking how they often gave Sokka the funny in the first series, one of the things I liked is how they were willing to show how Sokka was at a serious disadvantage compared to a bunch of bending powerhouses, but he was often able to bend between his ears in critical day-saving ways. He made the plans and took some of the biggest risks, and in spite of his lack of bending ended up as important as anyone else. Bumi, the only non-bender in most of the last two episodes-Sasami (Asami?) didn't count, as she hardly appeared-was bad comic relief at best. Apparently his reputation is built on either lies or miraculous lucky breaks, rather than any sort of skill on his part.
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A few things bothered me, like the Time Tree and Jinora Deus Ex Machina business, but otherwise I felt it was a very compelling and emotionally strong season.
I just hope it doesn't take another year and a half for us to see the next season. At the rate they're going with this show, I'll be in my mid thirties before the end of book 4...
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: I liked that they were willing to shake things up in big ways for the characters and the setting. Not sure how much I like all of the changes themselves.
Liked the pacing and tension of the simultaneous struggles in the last two episodes. Liked the absurdity (to an extent) of the mover episode. Liked the return of a form of energy bending.
Didn't like that Bumi's role was firmly established as bumbling but miraculously lucky idiot.* Didn't like the way they introduced an enormous threat or problem that should've been the focus of an entire season (such as the convergence business) in the last 3rd of it, and resolved it in only about 15m. Didn't like the way Police Chief Whatshername's response to Mako's frame-up was basically, "Oh, sure-he's actually a lying gangster this whole time for...well I'm not really sure why, but throw him in the slammer and wash my hands of things."
Didn't like how the President's response to Korra's 'hey, world-ending threat here' was 'need to keep troops at home for when the world ends, rather than working to avert it'. The way the story unfolded, had the RC military traveled south, they would've been able to storm the Spirit World pretty handily and avert the whole convergence crisis entirely. Good baffling call, Mista Prez.
Liked that they were willing to break up the main love interest. I've often been fonder of Sasami anyway. Liked the love angle they played with Bolin. At times it irritated me, but somehow I ended up enjoying it. Liked Jinora's role, and that Tenzin had to come to grips with his distorted view of himself and all the baggage of 'last hope of Airbenders' etc.
Liked and disliked that Uncle Bad Guy whose name I can't remember how to spell was apparently annihilated. Would've liked to see him clapped in irons and stripped of bending a la the Fire Lord. Liked that they returned to the energy bending angle, but disliked that the whole Tree of Time bit was if I'm remembering right completely unmentioned until the last 15m or so of show.
*Seriously, this really annoyed me. Aside from liking how they often gave Sokka the funny in the first series, one of the things I liked is how they were willing to show how Sokka was at a serious disadvantage compared to a bunch of bending powerhouses, but he was often able to bend between his ears in critical day-saving ways. He made the plans and took some of the biggest risks, and in spite of his lack of bending ended up as important as anyone else. Bumi, the only non-bender in most of the last two episodes-Sasami (Asami?) didn't count, as she hardly appeared-was bad comic relief at best. Apparently his reputation is built on either lies or miraculous lucky breaks, rather than any sort of skill on his part.
I believe Bumi's character is heavily based on Justin Ueki Taylor from the anime of the same name. A character very much meant to represent following Taoist philosophy of 'The Way', never trying to change your circumstances but following the flow will net you happiness and good fortune.
Taylor is very similar in that you weren't sure if he was an exceptionally lucky idiot or a crouching moron, hidden badass who faked his idiocy as a facade.
Bumi seems very similar to me, he's "lucky" but in Eastern belief systems being "lucky" is something that's deserved. His personality seems very much like a "go with the flow" kind of way.
Not sure what happened with Vatuu but, just me or is there now a Dark Avatar cycle? He isn't trapped in the tree. That can be cool, very Goku and Vegeta situation.
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I don't think so, because she kills him while he is in the dark avatar state. If you recall, this means that the avatar cannot return. That person is gone forever.
As for Vatu, he will come back in another 10,000 years.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: We know spirits can be physical. They can even be fish who store a good portion of their life force in blonde women.
What?
"My girlfriend turned into the moon."
Eh, I treat this the same way as how elementals from D&D aren't really "there" they're spirits that can affect materials attuned to them, and once "killed" they go back to where they came and can be summoned later.
Spirits in the Avatarverse seem to operate on similar rules, they can't really be killed because they aren't really "of" the world, they're separate from it and just happened to like inhabiting here.
So I think it would be nifty if we did straight up get us some demi-humans. Spirits that merged with Humans that can procreate and have more Half-Human Half-Spirit animal/creature people descendants.
And they can have a natural profiency with bending. 'bird' type Tengu like Aya Shameimaru and Night Sparrow like Mystia from Touhou are a shoe in for air bending.
Kappa, Ice Fairies like Cirno, Moon Rabbits, are all Water Benders, and so on. Maybe the Wolf Tengu could be earth benders and so on.
They are thus a "part" of the world in same way I think the Dwarves from LOTR are (they were made from material that existed right?) and can die and are a "part" of it.
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quote:Spirits in the Avatarverse seem to operate on similar rules, they can't really be killed...
I dunno. I'm pretty sure that Zhao did kill the moon, but she had put enough of her life somewhere else that she was able to revive.
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posted
It seems pretty clear that spirits CAN be killed. They made a special point of saying that Rava and what's his evil face couldn't be killed because good and evil must always exist yadda yadda, but he certainly thought he could kill Rava, which suggests spirits think they can die, but those were special circumstances.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Usually, when someone dismisses something as "bad writing," I don't know what they're talking about. But geez, even though I like this season and love the new ideas and characters, there were some glaring missed opportunities here.
The worst offender is the fourth-to-last episode, "Night of a Thousand Stars." Let's look at the scene where Bolin visits Mako in jail, acting obnoxious and smug about his stardom and not even acknowledging Mako's theories about Varrick. I was so convinced throughout the scene that Bolin was acting, and would have a wink or a slip at the end to let Mako know that he believed him, or was at least willing to keep an eye out for anything suspicious at the movie premiere. Instead, Bolin just acted stupid through the whole scene. There's no sign of brotherly loyalty, no hint of conflict in Bolin about trusting Varrick; it's just stupid Bolin acting like a goof.
And the scene where Varrick's waterbender goons try to kidnap the President! Everything that transpired with Bolin intervening in front of everyone played PERFECTLY into Varrick's plans until the thugs confessed the identity of their employer at the drop of a hat. How could they have been so stupid? Their plan would have WORKED if they had kept their mouths shut. It's not like Bolin was going to torture them in an arena filled with people. In fact, Bolin's dramatic intervention was the only way the plan COULD have worked; how exactly were they going to kidnap the President in a crowded stadium?
The part where Korra's father confronts Unalaq had the most unoriginal dialogue in the history of the show. Every line Unalaq uttered was from page one of the Villain's Cliche Handbook. The action could have been exactly the same, but they could have had Unalaq talk about how his plans are far beyond the scope of Water Tribe chiefdom, how he's restoring spiritual balance, etc. Instead, we got "you will bow to me!" and "Now that I've defeated you, I'll go after your daughter next!" Such a missed opportunity to give Unalaq some depth.
What should have happened was this: When Bolin meets Mako in jail, he acts stupid and oblivious to Varrick's motives, but lets on in a subtle way that he does trust his brother, and he will keep and eye on Varrick. Mako catches on and tells him that something may go down at the mover premiere. Bolin isn't ready to believe that Varrick is a bad guy just yet, and looks conflicted and uncomfortable at the mover. Asami comments that she thinks the mover is the best one yet, but Bolin looks troubled. Perplexed, Asami asks Bolin how Mako is, and Bolin excuses himself. Asami joins him outside, and they both express confusion and frustration over Team Avatar's falling-out. Asami confides that she isn't sure who she can trust anymore; she loves Mako, but can't believe his theory about Varrick. Bolin reflects on the times when Mako looked out for him on the streets, and realized that he would be a fool not to trust him. Then the waterbenders attack and Bolin fends them off, and Varrick tries to spin it as a Water Tribe attack. But Bolin and Asami publicly accuse the waterbenders of being Varrick's thugs. Varrick is then forced to try to discredit his big star, who just now made himself a hero both on screen and in real life. For the first time, we see Varrick bumbling and confused, rather than eccentric. Lin Beifong steps in, expressing skepticism that the waterbenders would want to kidnap the President when it would hurt the Northern Water Tribe, and has the police bring Varrick in for questioning.
Alternatively, Varrick gets away with it, and the President decides that he SHOULD send troops south. Bolin and Asami feel guilty that they had played into Varrick's hands, but have no way of really exposing him. But when Korra arrives and pleads the President for support, the President reveals he's already taking military action, but they need time to equip their fleet with Varrick's and Asami's military hardware. There's not enough time until Harmonic Convergence to wait for that, so Korra, Bolin, and Asami go to Varrick and explain that the end of the world is upon them, and if he doesn't stop trying to shoehorn more of his hardware into his military contracts and thus stall the fleet's actual movements, the world will fall into 10000 years of darkness. Varrick finally decides that the fate of the world is more important than his war profiteering, but glumly laments that he had SUCH a good plan.
There are other things that I could pick apart, but it was "Night of a Thousand Stars" that I took the most issue with, since they could have made it so much better in terms of character development by just changing a few lines.
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