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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Young Earth Creationism (Page 6)

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Author Topic: Young Earth Creationism
Ron Lambert
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God is the final Judge, whom we must all face. And His knowledge and understanding are complete and perfect.
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Rakeesh
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A question on the justice of God-we were all created last Thursday along with the entire universe, but human beings were created with memories. Many of us have sinful memories of course, since God creates complicated false memories. But my question is, if I die tomorrow with a whole lot of sinful memories of 30 years or so I didn't actually live, does that count against me in judgment?

I don't want to hear about how any of this is nonsense, either. It's my faith and it cannot be challenged, questioned, criticized, or disregarded. All those who do are either disrespectful bigots or pawns of the enemy.

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Samprimary
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Ron:

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Samprimary, most of what you and your snarling cohorts have to say is unworthy of response.

But why, exactly? Are you going to claim that what I'm saying is offensive and in a uselessly antagonistic tone? One that I should not use if I want to prove I'm intent on honestly debating the issue with you?

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Jeff C.
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Blaming the belief in Evolution for Hitler's actions is like blaming Jesus for the invasion of Iraq. Bush Jr said God told him to do it, after all. Let's not forget the Crusades and every other major war fought with God's will as its justification.

Blaming Evolution is stupid and ignorant. Hitler was a Christian, but we don't shun Christianity because of it, so why shun Evolution? No, Ron is just using this as an excuse, trying to shift the spotlight onto something else because he knows he's running out of material. It's a move of desparation and nothing more.

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narrativium
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
God is the final Judge, whom we must all face. And His knowledge and understanding are complete and perfect.

Or maybe your god does not exist. We'll probably never know conclusively within our lifetimes.
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Ron Lambert
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Blaming the belief in Evolution for Hitler's actions is like blaming Jesus for the invasion of Iraq.

Jeff, that is a pretty stupid thing to say. Adolph Hitler himself SAID that evolution was his justification for his campaign to wipe out the Jews. He called it "survival of the fittest," and he meant to prove that the "Aryan" race was the fittest. This is documented. Why do you presume to lie about history so blatantly?

Have you ever read the full, original title of Charles Darwin's book, "Origins of Species"? Here it is: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. Can't you manage at least a modicum of honesty to acknowledge that that title has just a hint of racism in it? What is to keep anyone from concluding that the way to prove that his race is the one that is favored, is by killing off the competition?

narrativium, I think it is most likely that most people here in this forum will live to see the end of the world, very soon. Those who die will rise in either the first or second general resurrections, to receive their ajudicated rewards. No one will escape. You can be on the good side of the Judgment, if you place your faith in the goodness of God, and worship the Creator instead of the creature. (Everyone worships one or the other, without exception.)

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Samprimary
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If the end of the world is coming you should be more prompt in addressing my question to you.
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Ron Lambert
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Samprimary: still unworthy of response.
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Samprimary
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But you haven't explained WHY my statement is unworthy of response. That's the most important thing. If you don't, it's like you're just ignoring it because it's inconveniently difficult for you to address without admitting some hypocrisy on your part.

Which is fine, of course. If you want to just grant me that victory, your silence will speak volumes.

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Ron Lambert
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The only thing my silence speaks, Samprimary, is that I do not respect the intelligence of your comments enough to make them worthy of further response.
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Stephan
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George W Bush is an exception. He was killing Muslims, so that is ok. Ron needs the Jews alive so they can convert to Christianity and/or kill all the Muslims in the holy land to bring about the end of the world.

Of course if the world is ending, why are creationists wasting time on pushing their agenda. Shouldn't they, I don't know, be spreading the more important aspects of their faith and try to convert people?

Back before my atheism I was in line to take one of the Praxis tests (to become a teacher in Maryland). An older (soon to be science) teacher in front of me started up a conversation with me. I mentioned I would not be celebrating Christmas being Jewish, and he had lots of questions about Judaism. He asked me how I resolved my faith with teaching evolution and the Big Bang. I told him that in my mind there were lots more important things in the bible than the opening story. He actually liked that.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
The only thing my silence speaks, Samprimary, is that I do not respect the intelligence of your comments enough to make them worthy of further response.

really? That's funny. Because I've been intentionally copy-pasting your own text and your own language, switching the target of its vitriol to creationists, and then seeing how you respond to YOUR OWN tone. YOUR OWN hubristic arrogance. Not anyone else's, just your own.

What do you do when you're confronted with the way that YOU SPEAK to others? You call it too unintelligent to make it worthy of further response.

Yeah, sounds about right.

see, this?

quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Ron Lambert, you coccoon yourself in swaths of self-affirming terminology which you think amounts to a scientific discipline, when actually it is you who have have no idea what genuine, actual reality is.

Another way to say it is that you have been brainwashed by creationists in positions of authority over you "teaching" you their "truth" since childhood on.

When all other argument and what you think is persuasion fail, you resort to insults and ridicule, because at the heart of it you cannot respect challenges to your world view. You cannot agree to disagree, you cannot admit that your opponents have reasonable positions that are supported by real evidence; you have to despise. I have witnessed this over and over again, so that I can only conclude that this must be an inherent characteristic of all defenders of creationism that eventually turns up sooner or later. It is not just your brainwashed world view that scientists must contend with, they must also endure your hatred. Have you ever asked yourselves who is really pulling your strings, and making you feel the things that you feel?

Why, that was actually pretty much you, when you said this.

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:

Samprimary, et al., you coccoon yourself in swaths of self-affirming terminology which you think amounts to a scientific discipline, when actually it is you who have have no idea what genuine, actual reality is.

Another way to say it is that you have been brainwashed by evolutionists in positions of authority over you "teaching" you their "truth" since childhood on.

And when all other argument and what you think is persuasion fail, you resort to insults and ridicule, because at the heart of it you cannot respect challenges to your world view. You cannot agree to disagree, you cannot admit that your opponents have reasonable positions that are supported by real evidence; you have to despise. I have witnessed this over and over again, so that I can only conclude that this must be an inherent characteristic of all defenders of evolution that eventually turns up sooner or later. It is not just your brainwashed world view that creationists must contend with, they must also endure your hatred. Have you ever asked yourselves who is really pulling your strings, and making you feel the things that you feel?

http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/main/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=048777;p=13#000609

And I chose this as a specific example because it was a point at which you first started really getting into making it that I argued with you because i was demonically influenced.

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Bokonon
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It's a trap!
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narrativium
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Holy crap, Sam. That's. . . brilliant.
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Ron Lambert
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I stand by every word, Samprimary. And you never said anything worthy of serious consideration, for the reasons I stated. If you choose to be deliberately stupid and unreasoning, then I have no obligation to follow you into such irrational underbrush. Your falsely characterizing the nature of my comments does not constitute a rational argument. Deal with my actual arguments substantively and directly, confronting facts, and answering fact for fact, citing sources, and then perhaps I will consider you worthy of my time.

Your sophomoric arguing does not constitute mature debating.

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Bokonon
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Ron, you are doing the same thing you condemn Sam for. You don't get to slide by because you believe you are right.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Your sophomoric arguing does not constitute mature debating.
Yeah, that's the point. I'm debating you using your own rhetoric, copied almost word for word. You are condemning your own immature, sophomoric "debating" and calling it too immature to warrant a response. You pretty much totally just called your own behavior too unintelligent to consider worth addressing. Welcome to how nearly everyone else has felt about you for a long time. Welcome to your blindness to your own lack of credibility.

You're just completely proving my point. I argued with you as you argue with everyone, and it's too much even for you. Yet, somehow, when you're acting this way, you're supremely blind to your own actions.

Congratulations.

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MattP
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Dude, Ron, it's over. You just got all pissy about the tone of your own words. I thought Sam's text was a bit out of character for him, but I had no idea it was because he was parroting you. Oh my bloody hell, I'm in awe on so many levels.

/tips sam a libation of his choosing (do you take BTC?)

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Jeff C.
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quote:
Jeff [Ron], that is a pretty stupid thing to say. Adolph Hitler [George Bush] himself SAID that evolution [Jesus] was his justification for his campaign to wipe out the Jews [invade Iraq].
quote:
Why do you presume to lie about history so blatantly?
If was lying about history, I would have said that it never happened, Ron. Stop twisting my words. I made a comparison. You clearly do not understand the difference.

quote:
Have you ever read the full, original title of Charles Darwin's book, "Origins of Species"? Here it is: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. Can't you manage at least a modicum of honesty to acknowledge that that title has just a hint of racism in it?
Is it racism when a lion kills a zebra? How about when a fish adapts to a polluted river in Idaho because of all the toxic waste? No, Ron, facts are not racist. They are facts. Just because you do not like something, does not mean it isn't true.

quote:
What is to keep anyone from concluding that the way to prove that his race is the one that is favored, is by killing off the competition?
Ron, science has shown that human beings, no matter the race, are almost completely identical. There are small genetic differences, but they are almost completely the same. Evolution does not propose that we self-eliminate. It simply states that the envirnment will force the animals to adapt, and those that adapt will survive. Human beings are at fault for whatever they do, not a factual scientific theory.

quote:
narrativium, I think it is most likely that most people here in this forum will live to see the end of the world, very soon. Those who die will rise in either the first or second general resurrections, to receive their ajudicated rewards. No one will escape. You can be on the good side of the Judgment, if you place your faith in the goodness of God, and worship the Creator instead of the creature. (Everyone worships one or the other, without exception.) [/QB]
Ron, this is why you will always lose every debate you get into, at least with an intelligent and well informed person. You cannot argue science with scripture. It doesn't work. Scripture is biased and faith based. Science requires nothing other than facts and observation.

Believe whatever you want, Ron, but you will never convince anyone here, because most of these people are actually informed.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
/tips sam a libation of his choosing (do you take BTC?)

oh, jeez. i .. have stayed as far away from btc as i possibly could, but the notion of being able to say i once owned ron so hard I was given a drink????

dude thanks

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Jeff C.
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What's BTC?
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Samprimary
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bitcoin
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MattP
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It's magic pretend money that you buy for no reason and then someone else buys it from you for much more money, again for no reason.
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
It's magic pretend money that you buy for no reason and then someone else buys it from you for much more money, again for no reason.

Brilliant!
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Stephan
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List of scientists who became creationists after studying the evidence.
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advice for robots
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Ha, not oversold at all.
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Samprimary
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http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve
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advice for robots
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I was referring to the way they killed the joke by trying to explain the punchline. I knew it was going to be a blank list before I clicked the link. And yet I found not only a notice stating that there was indeed no list, but tumbleweeds and cricket chirps just in case I didn't get it. (Upon clicking the link again, it appears that the notice that there is no list has been edited away--making it marginally funnier.)
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Samprimary
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my post was unrelated, I just think that Project Steve has to be brought up from time to time, especially when we get a massive load of lists and sources from places like answers in genesis
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kmbboots
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I know one of those Steves.
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Stephan
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Bill Nye to debate Ken Ham

Tickets cost $25 so I assume Nye is getting paid. But I really wish he wouldn't. When you debate someone, it kind of lends some credence to their argument. And they have none. At all. Zero. Zilch.

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Stephan
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Even the topic, “Is creation a viable model of origins in today’s modern scientific world?”, makes the whole thing about creationism. It would be like inviting Stephen Hawking to debate the merits of following Voldemort.
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dkw
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Yuck.
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Mr. Y
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
He told us His purpose in doing so--so there would be a universe filled with light.

Because God is afraid of the dark.

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Have you ever read the full, original title of Charles Darwin's book, "Origins of Species"? Here it is: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life. Can't you manage at least a modicum of honesty to acknowledge that that title has just a hint of racism in it? What is to keep anyone from concluding that the way to prove that his race is the one that is favored, is by killing off the competition?

Because the systematic extermination of a 'competing' race is not Natural Selection.
Should it be succesful, it does not prove that the survivors are better in all respects. It only proves that they are more ruthless.

It is like destroying your neighbour's brand new car by nudging it off a cliff with your own vehicle that is held together only by rust and some duct tape and then claiming that this proves your car is the better one.

[ January 03, 2014, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Y ]

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TomDavidson
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I should also point out that there is nothing systematic about natural selection, nor any suggestion of the kind in Darwin's title.
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