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Author Topic: Where's the Money? Where is Ender's Money?
BlueWizard
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Most likely this has been addressed before, but I am still not clear on the outcome.

When (SPOILER ALERT) Ender died, he assets must have been astronomical. In "The Financial Adviser" is assets were so high, they were virtually impossible to figure out. He is age 20 then, yet about 400 years had passed on earth.

At the beginning of "Speaker for the Dead", Ender is roughly age 30, but 3000 years have passed on Earth. Since he spends all his time on a Spaceship, and spends very little money, his fortune should be enough for him to buy a small planet with plenty of cash left over. I mean, he bought a Freighter Starship and its cargo with petty cash.

So, Ender live a life on Lusitania, I'm guessing he was about age 65 to 70 when he shuffled off this mortal coil.

So, let's say 3100 year of accrue interest and re-investing with Jane to maximize every investment.

Clearly there are more troubles to come to Lusitania. They have the most powerful weapon in the known universe - Jane. They have an alliance with the powerful and every growing Formic race. They kick Star Fleet tiny butts with a very big boot. They have access to faster than light speed travel. An extension of Faster than Light Speed Travel, is that they can breach any defense.

These, in the eyes of Star Congress, are very very dangerous people.

But, the question remains, were is Ender's very considerable Fortune? Do the Children of his wife get the money? Does Valentine get it? Was there a will? Did he leave it to the entire planet of Lusitania? To the Piggies? To the Formics? To charity?

Is Star Congress going to try to seize or freeze his assets?

So, where is the money? Seriously - Show Me the Money!

We know there is a book pending that revisited Lusitania after the currently final book in the series. Clearly there are many unresolved issues.

One of those unresolved issues, is the massive fortune of Ender Wiggin.

Just curious as to people's opinions on this.

If there are other links that you know of where this has been discussed, please post them.

Steve/bluewizard

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TomDavidson
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I was under the impression that Congress seized Ender's assets when they tried to kill Jane.
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Elison R. Salazar
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I wouldn't think they would be too successful there, imagine if one person had 1% of the United State's economy. That's still a lot and its spread out over thousands of companies, bank accounts, portfolios and so on; including what I would figure be false identities for secrecy. I don't recall even if they "knew" of the Ender on Lusitania so why would they target his accounts?
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BlueWizard
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It has been a while since I read that book. Does it actually say that, or was that your assumption. Further, if Star Congress froze the assets, Jane could simply unfreeze them.

Next, what authority did they have to seize the assets? What crime had Ender been convicted of committing?

To be fair though, they were going to "Little Doctor" the planet. So, we are not really dealing with the most rational people here.

Steve/bluewizard

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Elison R. Salazar
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If they knew Ender was on the planet that just seceded then yes, some equivalent of the "don't commit treason" clause qualifies.
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BlueWizard
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Lusitania was an 'Associated Planet', they were not full members of the Federation yet. Further, they were no more than a small outpost, essentially a scientific community with sufficient support population to survive.

Again, it has been a while since I read the book.

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Elison R. Salazar
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The Feds considered them in a state of war, mostly because of fear of the desclocoda.
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scifibum
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I was under the impression that the wealth was obfuscated in ways that would prevent anyone from figuring out it all belonged to Ender, thus preventing blackmail and other harassment from recurring after the events of "Investment Counselor".

If this job was done very well, perhaps it would remain anonymous until courts (or their future equivalent) had to dispose of it somehow.

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BlueWizard
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I'm not sure how important it is, or how it weighs on the discussion, but I'm reading Xenocide again, and it occurs to me that Valentine is also extremely RICH.

When Ender left Trondheim, he left in a freighter, though he bought the cargo too. When Valentine left, she bought a Yacht, a comfy cruiser. Neither of them make even the smallest dent in their fortunes.

Though neither has been obsessed with luxury or the things that money can buy. I still find the concept of their vast fortunes very fascinating.

Perhaps, it is just envy on my part.

Steve/bluewizard

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Magson
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Forbes article sorta on topic about Ender's Money from a few months back. All the comments basically say "Dude, you WAY underestimated. . . . " including mine, of course.
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Elison R. Salazar
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Ender's money is probably so large you'ld need a planet of bankers to keep track of it.

Or one AI.

If put to a number in todays $ you'ld I suspect need to resort to exponential scientific 128 bit notation.

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Jeff C.
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He has enough money to buy a space ship and it be "a drop in the bucket", as Jane says. Obviously, he's insanely wealthy.

Now, Ender didn't actually control his finances. Jane did. You have to understand that before you get to work on this. Second, Jane is still alive. She also still has control over the philotic web, which means she may still be capable of doing her godly duties. Third, Ender was reincarnated as Peter, which means his soul (or whatever Card calls it) lives on, so his work is still not done.

My guess is that Jane continues with her job as Ender's Accountant while living her human life. She will undoubtedly give the money to Peter and friends to help them in their future endeavors.

Also, these people don't look at money like we do. For us, money is a status symbol, a means to a better life. To them, however, it is just a rarely used tool. Ender has no desire for wealth, nor does he believe you need wealth to be happy. Jane keeps track of it and Ender couldn't care less about how much he has, because his real goal involves fixing people. More to the point, they only use the money when they need it, such as when they need to travel from world to world for something. If you notice, once Ender is on a planet, he doesn't necessarily need to buy a ton of stuff. He just needs enough to survive.

So basically, Jane is in charge of the money. She'll probably use it when she needs to do something, but there's really not much of a reason anymore. She has the ability to slip in and out of realities, which means she also has the ability to conjure up whatever she wants, like food or money (as if she needed it). And if that weren't already enough, she can also instantly travel from point A to point B, so that means she doesn't need a ship. They have almost no reason for cash anymore.

I think Jane will hold onto it and use it sparingly, possibly helping people if the need arises. I wouldn't be surprised if she was funneling some of that cash into the research to help Bean's kids with their disease, but who knows.

I REALLY want a direct sequel already. It's been years now, OSC. Give us the final book! PLEASE!!!

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Edgehopper
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Assuming Starways Congress Law is similar to most Western law (likely given the origins of Starways Congress and the FPE), there are two possibilities: Ender left a will, presumably written during the long time delay between marrying Novinha at the end of Speaker and Val's arrival at the beginning of Xenocide, or Ender died intestate.

If the latter, it's pretty easy--it all goes to his surviving spouse. Ender and Novinha never divorced, so it probably all goes to her, and she probably hasn't realized it. I imagine the Children of the Mind Order will be a much richer branch of Catholicism very soon.

If the former, which is more likely (Ender's not going to leave these things to chance), the money probably gets split between the various people and organizations he wants to give to. Novinha and her children will be well cared for, Jane was probably given discretion to distribute funds for her self-preservation (those computer banks on Moskva and Lumanaii aren't free!), a large account probably exists to fund whatever's needed for Peter and Val/Jane's missions, and based on Ender's values, I'd bet the majority and remainder was split and put in trust for the Pequeninos and Formics separately for when the two species have normal trading and diplomatic relations with the rest of humanity.

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BlueWizard
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Thanks for the FORBES reference, very interesting.

Steve/bluewizard

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BlueWizard
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Using a compound interest calculator, I assumed Ender had $500,000 at the end for Ender's Game, then his generous pension was an additional $100,000 per year. Compounded at 15% over 3000 years, this is the number I was given.

$6,119,043,425,203,182,287,466,074,485,068,990,416,381,376,963,207,640,031,071,009,217,900,564,308,643,513,682,078,287,367,397,631,667,321,180,006,679,585,550,121,990,427,693,859,2 31,636,667,992,361,587,471,735,234,568,467,630,930,695,738,121,081,328,743,485,538,304.00

THAT is a LOT of Money.

Backing it down to initially $100,000 plus an additional $50,000 per year for 3000 yeas plus 15% interest, this is the number I got -

$2,951,538,593,333,300,016,532,760,945,408,443,987,414,390,543,763,316,028,385,335,291,053,919,329,711,520,557,484,645,821,501,406,127,019,041,153,715,127,792,202,902,833,179,603,3 09,354,417,802,879,598,385,769,878,308,271,004,828,936,523,400,562,057,951,441,846,272.00

Still a lot of money.

15% might seem a bit much, but remember Jane is managing his money.

Steve/bluewizard

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vineyarddawg
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Also, remember, the numbers are able to be significantly larger because we're not just talking about the economy of one entire planet, but of 100+. Jane is able to spread Ender's money out amongst the entire Hundred Worlds. Presuming that each world (or, at least, the vast majority) has some ability to provide a vehicle for private investment in their various enterprises across the planet, that's a heck of a lot of room to spread money around.
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Elison R. Salazar
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Yeah its larger than just interest because of investments.
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BlueWizard
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Also, remember that Ender has a pension. He left at the end of Ender's Game with the pay of a high Admiral. Then later retired on a high Admiral's pension. So more money was being constantly added to his account, and it was also getting a return on his investments.

I think his first and second independent space voyages were free, and possibly his third. But, that covers a significant span of time.

450 years later in The Investment Counselor Ender already has more wealth than he could manage. He sold one small under-performing investment to pay his taxes. Imagine how that money had compounded in an additional 2500 years that Jane is openly managing Ender's money.

Also, from that point forward, Jane is also managing Valentine's money.

I suspect Jane was managing Ender's money all along, but simply chose the time of The Investment Counselor to reveal herself to Ender.

Remember Peter was pillaging Ender's money to finance the Hegemony and replacing the money with Hegemon Bonds. Ender's parents put a stop to that, and that is when Gaff turned control of the money over to a slightly modified Jane.

Keep in mind Peter was using that money to finance armies. You don't do that with petty cash.

It has been my speculation that Jane not only took over Ender's money, but Bean's as well, and perhaps the investments of all the people who were with Ender near the end of Ender's Game.

I suspect when Bean died, he has a substantial bank of cash of his own. Though I don't know if that will be mentioned when the series converge.

Steve/bluewizard

[ November 22, 2013, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: BlueWizard ]

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BlueWizard
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Actually, I made a mistake in my Compound Interest Calculation. I put $50,000 per month added income; it should be 1/12th that amount monthly.

So instead of $2,951x10^195; it should be $311x10^195.

Also keep in mind, given the year the story takes place in, to assume, with bonuses, that Ender had only accummulated $100,000 is absurdly low. And an on-going pension of $50,000/yr is equally low. Given that JANE is the most perfect investor, to assume a 15% return on investment is equally low.

None the less, indisputably, Ender is massively rich beyond comprehension.

Even if I diminishes the calculation to 12% to allow for an inflation rate of 3%, it is still $5x10^153.

That's a lot of money. Does anyone even know if number amounts this high have names - 1x10^195?

Steve/bluewizard

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Magson
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Arguably every additional 3 zeros adds the next number prefix, so million (6), billion (9), trillion (12), quadrillion (15), quintillion (18), sextillion (21), septillion (24), octillion(27), nonillion(30), decillion (33), undecillion (36), duodecillion (39), etc.

Problem there is that quite frankly I have no idea what the prefix would be for 13 to carry on the thing. Additionally, since the 1st order of magnitude here is thousand, which doesn't follow in the naming convention anyway, it's offset from what most people would naturally think of, even if it weren't also unnatural to think of a number with 24 zeros as being associated with a 7.

Further, the 1 followed by 100 zeros is a "googol", but 100 doesn't divide by 3, so it should actually be "10 {whatever the 32 prefix is}-illion." and yes, the 32 prefix, not the 33, since, as mentioned, we skip the 1st order of magnitude with thousand, so the 1st number "in the progression" has 6 zeroes already.

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BlueWizard
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But this is 195 zeros or 65 sets of three.

In the FORBES article they tried to do a conversion from Dollars to Yen then to Star Counts. But I think the method they used was bogus. No need for conversion. Simply start with the pay of a someone in Officers Training School at the highest level. Then consider the current pay of a High Admiral, then consider the amount of War Bonuses for a War of this magnitude, then consider the retirement pay of a High Admiral as of the date of Ender's Game. Further allow for cost of living increase and general generosity by the govt.

I say High Admiral, because in "Ender in Excile" Ender is on a ship whose 'captain' has ranked an Admiral, but when the land it is clear that Ender is a higher ranking Admiral. There are at least 3 ranks of Admiral that I know of Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, and Full Admiral. Ender is likely the highest.

Though Military pay is historically terrible, one can only assume the future is more enlightened. In a sense they know they can get away with terrible pay for soldier because it is in a sense Slave Labor.

During the time of Vietnam when the Draft was in effect, a typical low ranking solder got about $100/month. Terrible pay, but then you either accepted the pay, or you went to prison.

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theamazeeaz
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I work with large numbers from time to time, things like masses of planets, number of atoms in atmospheres, that sort of thing. There are names for large numbers, but no one really cares. You just use something like 1.38e23 for 138,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, read it in scientific notation and be done with it.


Ender's initial bugger blood money doesn't matter at all. All the magic comes from the rate of return he's getting on investments.

The equation we want to use is MONEY = START*INTEREST^YEARS

Because I like even numbers, let YEARS = 3000.

Let's say Jane sucks at investing, and human expansion doesn't create a growing economy (haha), and Ender makes 0.5% per year. So, MONEY = START*1.005^3000 = START*3e6. Okay, so 3 million times as much money. Maybe starting salary does make a difference. But that's not how much interest Ender is getting.

How about 1%? Still pretty lousy, though you are lucky to find a bank with rates like that. That gets us MONEY = START* 1.05^3000=START*9e12. 9 trillion times as much money. Canonically, Ender has more money than that, but if the IF gave him $2 (Money for a refreshing beverage), he would have more money ($18e12) than the GDP of the USA ($16.6e12). Right now, our world "GWP" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_world_product) is $72e12. So if the IF gave Ender $20 (T-shirt that says "I saved humanity and all I got was this lousy T-shirt"), he would have $180e12, or more than twice our current world economy.

Let's use more realistic numbers.

I would say that 5% is decent rate of return, but not extraordinary, given the creation of the 100 Worlds. MONEY= START*1.05^300= 3.7e63. Oof. So basically, if Ender can get 5% per year, he has more money than God. We stopped caring after the first 15 zeroes, so who cares if he started with $0.01 (3.7e61) or $10,000,000.00 (3.7e70). His money grew from an amount anyone could have to a universe of economies.

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Orincoro
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That's not at all realistic for a lot of reasons.

First, a fortune cresting the value of the world economy cannot reasonably expect to return more than the world economy produces.

It's like this: if the world produces $100 dollars, and I have a fortune of $100 dollars, I can't get 5% of my principle back in a year, because that would require the world to take a 100% debt against GWP AND grow 5% in total production, AND SPEND every penny of the excess servicing the debt, which is irrational.

A 5% return only works on an investment that adds needed liquidity to a market: if there is market potential for a 5% return but no capital, you invest the capital and the market returns 5%. If your starting capital is bigger than the market though, the market can't suddenly just produce 5% more because you double its size in liquidity. It has to produce enough to service the investment AND grow in fundamental value.

This is why governments invest in dollar bonds that sometimes return 0.5%. The idea is that the bulk of your principle *doesn't lose* value as fast as printed currency does, not that it grows at a steady rate. The larger a principle fortune is, the more the total economic output has to grow to return at the same rates. As the principle rises however, it is inherently limited by the total size of the economy: as it reaches 100% of GWP, its potential returns approach unity.

So at best Ender's fortune can only *ever* be as large as or a little larger than the largest extant corporation, because all the typical market rules apply: you can't make a profit off of an investment unless the investment adds value to the market, because a market will not *take* your investment unless its a useful amount, and its irrational to invest more in a market than it can possible hope to produce: that's where you get big bubbles and crashes.

Take another example, say, Apple. Apple's market cap is something like 500 Billion Dollars as a yearly average. Now, you might be tempted to assume that this means one can "buy apple" for 500 Billion dollars. And while you technically could do that if you had the money, you would be making a disastrous choice. Because the market cap is a function of the actual assets as well as the market view of the potential return on investment, by flooding the investment market, you would disperse that 500 Billion dollars to investors who would *use that capital* to compete with Apple. You'd be stuck with the asset value of the company, minus the loss in competitive edge you've incurred by flooding the tech market with liquidity. Your stock price might go up for a while as investors piled back into Apple at higher share prices, but that would stop reflecting the real expected output of the company, and the bubble would bust, bringing with it the real investment value, and leaving your company without a means of gaining liquidity by selling devalued shares.

To get why this is important, you need to understand that market capitalization doesn't mean "value," as much as it means "access to money." A company with a high market cap can sell shares of itself to get access to liquidity, and buy back when it has too much liquidity and not enough return. This is why you should *never* believe headlines like: "apple lost $200 Billion since the launch of the IPhone." It's patently ridiculous: their market cap went down $200 Billion dollars, but they made 10s of billions in cash on the product anyway. To believe they lost money, you would have to ignore that their market cap rose in anticipation of them making this money in the first place, and it provided them with the capital to make it- now that the bulk of sales have been made, the cap is shrinking as even apple plows its profits back into its stock, buying itself back and simultaneously dropping its market cap. When it gets ready to release a new product, the cap will rise and apple will sell those shares in order to get access to cash to fund the new products. The idea that the value of apple is represented in the market cap is absurd.

So, at higher levels, investments do not expect to return these kinds of rates when they already represent such a huge chunk of the world economy. At some point, your money actually has to *do* something to grow the economy, and that means taking losses some years instead of gains. You can never grow your investment faster than the economy grows and do so continuously.

Now, if you expected on the other hand that the Galactic economy might grow at rates of 10% or higher year on year, then a return of this magnitute might be possible. But it would also be mirrored by other investors: ENder wouldn't be the only person or corporation investing capital over that period: the whole economy would be built on such investments.

[ November 23, 2013, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]

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BlueWizard
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Actually Compound Interest takes more factors into consideration.

Principle + On-Going Deposits + Interest Rate + Number of time per Year Interest is calculated + the Number of Years.

Obviously not literally "+" as in Add, but merely indicating the factors that combine to product the result.

In the parallel story, BEAN gives some one a tip (gratuity) with $100 coin. That shows you the value of money at the time.

But, it doesn't matter what inflation is, and you don't need to mess with any currency conversion. Simply start with a reasonable amount, add a yearly pension, compound with a reasonable interest rate and compound it for 3000 years.

So what is a reasonable Interest Rate. Well you should have no problem getting 5%. I have a Bond Fund that historically returns between 7% and 15%. Returns since the inception of the Fund are about 13.23%,

So, with all-knowing Jane managing his money, a consistent 15% would not be that unreasonable. Given the Ender and Valentine spend virtually nothing, I can see the money growing pretty fast. When Ender leaves Trondheim for Lusitania, has a little more than a change of cloths in the way of possessions. I suspect for the first 50 years of his life, while he made his first few voyages and lived briefly on various planets, the govt or the local people picked up the check for just about everything.

Then he starts serious voyaging, and decades and centuries fly by quickly, money being paid, interest compounding, and him still spending very little.

As others have pointed out, if you hypothetically invest a single dollar at reasonable interest rates, after 3000 years you have considerable money. But now start with a reasonable amount for his 7 years of service and his war bonuses, then add his pensions and salaries to that, then span that across 3000 years, and not matter how you slice it and dice it, he has tons of money.

Further we can not use the current USA or World GDP. We are many years into the future when we start the story, then by the end the GDP is the combined GDP of 100 earths plus several colony planets, which would include the plundering of the resources of many earth equivalents. I think someone somewhere is pulling down big money, and with the growing and increasing of the 100 Worlds, equally, the value of existing relevant companies would increase. Meaning, in this Boom Time economy, I see lots of money to be made by a shrewd investor, which JANE certainly is.

Now there the number $311x10^195 is realistic, perhaps ... perhaps not. But it still illustrates the massive increase in Ender's wealth across 3000 years.

Again, I remind you that in the "Bean" series inflation is so bad that $100 has become like $10; a tip for a cab driver. Further likely during the time of the switch between currencies, money would be re-evaluated. There was a time in Russia (I think) when the paper money was printed on was worth more than the value of the money. It took a wheel barrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread.

But my point here is when new currencies occur, the pull the older currencies under control. For example, to control inflation, the $100 tip Bean gave might be values as US$100 = IF$10. Later, IF$1000 might be SC$10.

But that doesn't matter that much. We evaluate the money in current Dollars, and project it out into future dollars. And using todays money, even a conservative estimate is $5x10^153. However, likely the Star Count Currency values is a lower number. But it still frames his money in a way that we can understand it in today's Dollars.

A few continuing thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

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scifibum
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Steve, Ender didn't have more dollars [substitute your currency unit of choice] by a hundred orders of magnitude than there exist atoms in the universe. That's extremely silly, even if you assume a hundred really big member economies.

Something like a trillionaire in today's dollars, I think you can defend. Something that makes the entire economic value of a billion Earth-sized economies disappear into statistical noise a hundred times over? No... [Smile]

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BlueWizard
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:


It's like this: if the world produces $100 dollars, and I have a fortune of $100 dollars, I can't get 5% of my principle back in a year, because that would require the world to take a 100% debt against GWP AND grow 5% in total production, AND SPEND every penny of the excess servicing the debt, which is irrational.

...

You do realize that "Wall Street" has leverage more than 3 times the GDP of the WORLD in Derivatives?

They seem to have no trouble betting far beyond their means.

Steve/bluewizard

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BlueWizard
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Steve, Ender didn't have more dollars [substitute your currency unit of choice] by a hundred orders of magnitude than there exist atoms in the universe. That's extremely silly, even if you assume a hundred really big member economies.

Something like a trillionaire in today's dollars, I think you can defend. Something that makes the entire economic value of a billion Earth-sized economies disappear into statistical noise a hundred times over? No... [Smile]

We project money into the future using our current frame of reference because we have no other frame of reference.

Likely, the currency has been adjusted several times.

In the Bean/Shadow Series, there is a scene were Bean and Petra are in Armenia, and Bean pulls out a $100 coin and tips a cab driver. Give that $100 is now a coin and a fair tip for a cab driver, the value of the dollar has fallen greatly.

So perhaps when the convert Interstellar IF currency the conversion rate is US$100 = IF$1. Then at some point, there is a conversion to Star Counts, which could have been something like IF$1000 = SC$1.

So, the number would only be $311x10^195 in today's money. With various currency adjustments and re-evaluations, the number might not be as high, but it is still very high.

Given the illustration I used, the 'dollar' is devalued by a factor of 100,000, but that only trims 6 zeros of my calculation, so $311x10^195 becomes $311x10^189.

Even if currency is devalued by a factor of a million, that still only trims off 9 zeros. So, $311x10^195 becomes $311x10^186.

Obviously all these number are ridiculously high, however, they do reflect a likely income and asset value of any amount of money compounded at a reasonable rate over 3000 years.

If we rake a ridiculously modest amount, say $100 as a starting investment, then add $10/month to it, and compound it 4 time per year at a 10% yearly rate, for 3000 years, the final number is still astronomical -

$631,434,131,597,277,935,102,108,099,817,256,010,666,688,786,426,762,314,908,012,191,206,579,245,151,877,270,697,015,636,217,079,438,638,091,897,390,869,757,036,950,842,245,120.00

$631x10^43

I think it is very safe to say, the Ender had more than $100 original investment, and that he got more than $10/mo, and that he gained more than 10% interest.

I don't think anyone ever imagined that interest could be compounded over 3000 year.

It doesn't matter what his net worth is in Star Counts, nor is there any need for currency conversions, we simply project forward in today's money, to see what today's money would be 3000 years in the future.

Keep in mind that inflation is a killer. When I was in high school gasoline was $0.32/gal, today it is $3.20/gal. An ice cream cone used to be $0.10, now it is $1.00. That is just in my lifetime.

Certainly at some point, the currency will have to be adjusted to allow for that. At some point, you are not going to want to buy a loaf of bread with a $1,000,000 coin. Long before that, the currency will be adjusted.

In 3000 years the currency is likely to be adjusted many times. So, certainly the numbers Ender is seeing are not as high as the numbers we are calculating. But we are looking for perspective and the numbers I calculated give us that perspective in today's money.

End easily has $311x10^195 in TODAY's Dollars. But who knows what that is in Star Counts. Though all evidence indicates it is an astronomical number of Star Counts.

Just a thought.

Steve/bluewizard

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scifibum
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quote:
I don't think anyone ever imagined that interest could be compounded over 3000 year.
Because it really can't. Interest is the fee someone else is paying to borrow your money. It can't grow indefinitely.

Figure out the likely total wealth of 100ish earth size planets, multiply by 50 just to account for higher productivity in the future, and then take a significant but not majority chunk of that, and you might have a number that makes sense.

Simple compound interest for 3000 years does not result in a sensible number.

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Orincoro
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That's the point: you can't compound interest on a principle larger than the total economy: there's no-one to pay the interest. And at best all that happens is that the principle amount is depleted by inflation. As soon as Inter-Planetary bankers figured out that a single entity was drying up all the liquidity and holding too many assets, they would just mint 10^20 times more money (or whatever) and inflate the hell out of the currency to free it up. You can't just get all the kool-aid - you have to share it or it doesn't mean anything.

Steve, you're running up against the same problem: you cannot, repeat cannot expect year-on-year compounding interest on investments that are approaching the size of any economy. The economy has to produce MORE, FASTER, to pay the interest. You'd always end up being caught by inflation and diminishing returns on investments. At a certain point, Ender's ideal return would be just slightly over 0% growth- a number closely tied to inflation. The bigger the principle is, the harder it would be to get the whole thing to grow at that rate. While any individual investment still could grow at that rate, the entirety of the portfolio NEVER could. It just doesn't work that way.

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BlueWizard
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What Economy? Measured by what standard?

Today's economy is astronomical compared to a few centuries ago. Today's economy would be unthinkable to people living back them.

As to the size of the world economy, keep mind that we are currently leveraged at 5 TIMES the world economy is Derivative investments alone.

The Banking and Investment Industry doesn't seem to have a problem betting 5 times the world economy on some of the most risky unregulated bets around.

Currently, the "world economy" is not a limiting factor.

Further give that there is any economy at all in the 100 Worlds indicates we have not economically or literally destroyed ourselves. You can't know the value of money or the size of the economy 3000 years in the future. As I already indicated, inflation has increased by a factor of 10 just in my lifetime.

But Compounding Interest does give you a sense of the size of Ender's Money in the future. No the number I calculated may not be correct, but it does accurately reflect that ENDER IS RICH, EXTREMELY RICH.

Valentine is nearly as wealthy.

SO, in context, the underlying question is, what happens to all this money? It is wealth beyond measure. How will it, or will it, come into play in the next story in the sage?

There are a lot of complex issue left unresolved - The Discolada Planet
- Star Congress is not going to be happy at getting their asses kicked
- How do the Beany Babies come into play?
- How does all this money come into play?

Peter has a formidable 'army' at his disposal. He has an alliance with a Planet of Geniuses (Path), he has Jane and instantaneous travel, he has Valentine, the Formics/Buggers. These all have to be a threat to the existing powers. I can't believe the Political Hacks at Star Congress are going to take this lying down. There is a threat to their power and supremacy in the Galaxy.

Remember the original Peter was able to build armies by drawing on Ender's Pension, imagine what New Peter can do with Ender's vast wealth.

But who now controls that wealth?

These are all very intriguing things.

Steve/bluewizard

[ November 28, 2013, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: BlueWizard ]

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