Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Short Works » Hello and help me please ...

   
Author Topic: Hello and help me please ...
Nocturne
Member
Member # 1621

 - posted      Profile for Nocturne   Email Nocturne         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
I'm new here, and already I need a little assistance if possible.

I seem to have a knack for writing reasonable (very) short pieces (so I'm told), but am unnable to expand these 'encounters' into what I would consider a short story.

Normally this wouldn't actually bother me, after all only about three people (including me) ever read what I write.

However, I have recently started running a role-playing game (kinda like Dungeons & Dragons) online on a message board.
This means that I not only need to brush up on writing skills, but my ability to extend a plot worth being involved in.

Answers on a postcard to ....
(well OK here will do, or you can mail me at freeman82@btinternet.com)


Posts: 32 | Registered: Apr 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
Are you asking for help critiquing actual stories, or are you looking for tips on writing an ongoing storyline? If the latter, then you should probably post this on the Open Discussions about Writing forum.
Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
Nocturne
Member
Member # 1621

 - posted      Profile for Nocturne   Email Nocturne         Edit/Delete Post 
Both I guess.
When i get home (posting from work right now), I'll put up the required 15 lines and see who wants to read the whole thing (short as it is), and I'll repost for advise in the other forum.

Hmm, OK, so it seemed better when i wrote it, no i dont feel so confident in it.
Still here's the first few lines
--------

The early morning sun shed its crimson orange rays across the desert, already a heat haze rose from the vistas and dunes either side of the dust strewn highway as tumbleweeds drifted aimlessly across the landscape.

This picturesque scene was abruptly disrupted by the scream of hi-octane engines being pushed to the very edges of their capacity as grey Palomino tore its way along the highway chased by a jet black Manta. Bullets kicked up dirt from the poorly maintained road either side of the Palomino as it dodged and swerved to avoid the relentless stream of metallic death speeding from behind it. Looking in his rear view mirror, all the beleaguered driver of the Palomino could see was the long, predatory, hood of the black manta emblazoned with a macabre visage that can only be described as part death mask, part skull, and part robot, an image that sent a chill down his spine.

[This message has been edited by Nocturne (edited April 07, 2003).]


Posts: 32 | Registered: Apr 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Phanto
Member
Member # 1619

 - posted      Profile for Phanto   Email Phanto         Edit/Delete Post 
It is far too descriptive for me.
" The early morning sun shed its crimson orange rays across the desert, already a heat haze rose from the vistas and dunes either side of the dust strewn highway as tumbleweeds drifted aimlessly across the landscape. "

Uh. I have the habit of just skipping entire pages of this kind of writing. It may not be right; I may be skipping some of the best writing ever - but it is still annoying.

Overall the sentances are too long - the average being 38.7 words per sentance. You seem to have a vivid imagination of the scene - unfortunatly it is too vague for the reader. If you made it more 'solid' i.e. less poetic language, then it would be a lot better, IMO.


Posts: 697 | Registered: Mar 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Survivor
Member
Member # 213

 - posted      Profile for Survivor   Email Survivor         Edit/Delete Post 
You need to establish a POV before getting into the evocative description. I'm guessing that you want to use the POV of the driver of the Palomino.

First, give him a name. Don't let any "experts" confuse you here. Putting a unique identifier on your POV character is essential to letting the reader follow the action. It doesn't have to be his full name and social security number or anything like that...just a tag so that when you refer to the POV character doing something, the reader knows without question who did what.

Second, describe everything from his POV. I know this sounds dumb, but you have no idea how many times I have read a story in which almost none of the action is described from the point of view of the POV character.

For simple storytelling, use the POV of the protagonist as the means of telling the story. Later, you can use the POV of an admirer or observer of the protagonist. Much later, after you already tell perfect stories from the POV of a protagonist and you want to tell the story of a protagonist so good or so inhuman that you can't use it as the POV character.


Posts: 8322 | Registered: Aug 1999  | Report this post to a Moderator
Doc Brown
Member
Member # 1118

 - posted      Profile for Doc Brown   Email Doc Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
Survivor is right: it's okay to start out in an omniscient POV, and you can even give some details. But those evocative details, especially those that imply judgement and opinion, can't come until you've established a POV character.

For example, you describe a "poorly maintained" road. What's that mean? By whose standards is it poorly maintained?

In omniscient POV you can describe a rutty road, a dusty road, a potholed road, or even a crumbling road. But a "poorly maintained" road requires a POV character to make a judgement. Even then, "poorly maintained" is a dull judgement. A POV character ought to give us a really strong opinion, like "Some highway. It looked more like the surface of the moon, if giant gophers ever attack the moon."

See? It's got attitude. Your whole description could use a dose of attitude.


Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Nocturne
Member
Member # 1621

 - posted      Profile for Nocturne   Email Nocturne         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the comments guys, I guess I did have a vivid picture of how this played out when i wrote it.

I guess you guys can see my inexperience in writing rather than roleplaying through a story already.

The opening is intended to be in what you call 'Omnicient PoV'. This switches to the PoV of the Manta driver later in the story, the guy in the Palomino is a nameless driver.

So, shorter scentences, and no opinions until until we hit he PoV of one of the characters.


Posts: 32 | Registered: Apr 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Doc Brown
Member
Member # 1118

 - posted      Profile for Doc Brown   Email Doc Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
You got it.

But you can give detailed descriptions before you have a POV character. Today's reader is especially willing to accept sights and sounds from an omniscient POV, provided the sights and sounds are mere descriptions without judgement.

BTW your plan to start omniscient and move into the Manta driver's POV is fine. Yet in case you didn't realize it, your text was headed toward the Palomino driver's POV. By the time I get to "a chill down his spine" I am definitely in the Palomino driver's POV.

One more thing: as a car nut myself, I'd like to know a bit more about the cars. You might use this exposition to help establish the setting. For example, you could describe the Palomino as a burned-out antique, probably a 2012 or 2013 model, made back when you could still get a V-6. Perhaps the Manta has the gleaming titanium trim that was popular just last year.


Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Nocturne
Member
Member # 1621

 - posted      Profile for Nocturne   Email Nocturne         Edit/Delete Post 
Yikes.
Well I went back and re-read the whole thing, and you're dead right. It does slip into the Palo driver's PoV (Incidentally this is not a science-future piece, the Palomino is on a par with a late 70's mustang, probably packing a 302 under the hood).
The driver of the Manta (OK, It's a late 70s Stingray) is kinda the guy that the story is about, but so far he's only in one scene. Not actually written that much of it yet, most of the outline is still in my head, and I'm just trying to get the key scenes down first, then link them together.
I know that that's TOTALLY the wrong way to go about it, but I have trouble writing the linking scenes so they have to come later.

Anyway, off for a mile re-write.
Cheers for the input.


Posts: 32 | Registered: Apr 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
Doc Brown
Member
Member # 1118

 - posted      Profile for Doc Brown   Email Doc Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
I see.

FYI except for 1979, late 70's Mustangs were Mustang IIs . . . which were essentially Pintos with all the options. A 302 would go with the top-of-the-line King Cobra version. You could go with a '79 Mustang, but I think your story needs a 1970 Mustang Mach 1. It's beautiful, fast, and noisy in a Road Warrior sort of way.

Also, after 1976 Corvettes didn't use the Stingray designation. I suppose you could call 1976 "late 70s" but I'm more inclined to call it mid 70s. Again, the pinnacle of horsepower came in the '67-70 range, before emissions concerns reduced the compression ratios of American cars.


Posts: 976 | Registered: May 2001  | Report this post to a Moderator
Nocturne
Member
Member # 1621

 - posted      Profile for Nocturne   Email Nocturne         Edit/Delete Post 
The main reason I kept the names as just a similarity to the donor vehicle is that my knowledge of classic muslce cars is currently lacking (but I AM working on that)

As i see it, the Palo in the section above is probably along the lines of a mk1 Mustang with a 302 BOSS engine. It's really irrelevant as in about 500-1000 words time the car is totalled.

The Stingray IS (shapewise) the classic Stingray configuration (not just a 'vette), so my chronology is out, but that's not essential to the story, certainly not at this point.

Soon after the posted section stops we see two more 'Road Warriors' enter the story. For the moment thier car's are equally vague, although based on a Charger and a Ferrari respectivley.
Again though, the car itself is irrelevant, as most of the vehicles will be heavily modified from stock, and bear little resemblance (beyond basic body shape) to the donor vehicle.
(Any role-players here who ever played 'Car Wars' or 'Dark Future' will see where I'm coming from)
Perhaps when I have finished researching the muscle car culture I can go back and make these cars what they should be, but I dont see that as a high priority.

What I really want to do is make the little that I have so far coherent and readable, so that I have a formula to work from as I write the rest.

Having critiqued the few lines I posted, is anyone willing to take on what I have written so far, and point out just how far off the rigth track I've gone (it seems to change PoV quite a bit).
As yet it's unedited from above, I figured why change a little, when a whole lot may need to be changed.

If anyone wants to take it on (about 4000 words I think)
Lemme know your e-mail addy, and I'll wing it over to you.

[This message has been edited by Nocturne (edited April 09, 2003).]


Posts: 32 | Registered: Apr 2003  | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2